Is LaBron A Top 10 Of All Time?

Ok, ok... he's Clyde Drexler if Clyde's career ended in 1994.

 

My top 5:

PG - Magic
SG - Jordan
SF - Bird
PF - Duncan
C - Wilt

I chose these 5 for the fact that all are great scorers, great passers, great rebounders (for their positions) and good/great defenders.

People seem to forget that basketball is a team sport. LeBron is a great individual talent, but Bird was a better team player. People remember Bird as a slow footed white guy, but he played great team defense. He was 2nd team all defense 3 times, led the league in Defensive Win Shares 4 times, was top 6 in defensive rebounds 9 times, was top 10 in steals 3 times and top 10 in Defensive Rating 6 times. Those are pretty impressive accomplishments for any player, and pretty fucking amazing for a slow footed, unathletic white guy. And, it's not like Bird did it against weak competition. He went head-to-head with guys like Dr. J., Dominique Wilkens, Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy, etc, his entire career - and more times than not, got the better of them.

Bird, Jordan, Magic, etc. all also have that one thing that separates LeBron from greatness - leadership. Those guys absolutely refused to allow their teams to lose. Jordan's flu game, Bird returning and playing his ass off after getting a concussion, Magic playing center and going for 42 when Kareem was injured. Those guys, in true greatness, carried their teams on their backs when the stakes were highest. LeBron hasn't won a single game seven in his 9-year career. He's had some amazing game fives and sixes, but the true test of greatness is carrying your team to victory when facing elimination. He has also inexplicably disappeared for entire big games and regularly in the 4th quarter with a series on the line. He is an amazing athlete and a remarkable individual talent, but he isn't close to top 10 in greatness. He's an amazing individual athlete playing a team sport. Yeah, there have been other greats that haven't won a championship, but notice none of them is on my list either. I may not be right, but I am consistent.

BNM

 

Without a single doubt. IMO anyone who says he's not is just trying too hard to hold on to the past. Had LeBron been born and played in the NBA 20-30 years earlier, he would be the greatest talent of all time. Yeah he hasn't faced that physical play, but with his strength and athleticism he would have gotten used to it and he would have absolutely man handled guys like Mo Lucas. No one back then could hold up against him.

 

If LeBron were playing in the 1980's, he'd be a much more terrifying player. With his frame he'd just destroy other SF's in a much more physical game. To say that he would somehow be less awesome in that era is absurd. Everything that makes him a great player now (ridiculous strength and size for his PG skills) would only be augmented then.

I've seen five truly great basketball players since I started following hoops in the mid-90's. Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon and LeBron. Five guys with just jaw-dropping talent that you just can't compare them to the rest. I'm a huge fan of Pippen, and I respect what Bird did, but I have a hard time imagining either getting the better of LeBron. He's going to go down as the best SF of all time, unless Durant can somehow surpass him.

 

The 3 that I think should be set in stone are (SG) Jordan, (SF) Bird and (PF) Duncan. After that, its completely up for debate. I'm a strong believer (in basketball especially) that titles are the greatest measure of greatness.

It reminds me of an old Bret "the Hitman" Hart saying....

"To be the best, you gotta beat the best"

 

I think Magic has the PG position on lock down.

Lebron isnt a top 10 player. There are just to many legends ahead of him. I think he might be in the next tier with Zeke and Ewing.

 

Oscar Robertson and Magic is debateable at PG.

 

Short answer: His Prime? Certainly it is tied for the best of all-time, maybe the best, but his career is still young. He has to play longer.

At least in that pseudo-sport you do 1 on 1 battles, such is not the case in the NBA where clearly inferior players already have 5 titles.


The reality is that the movie Moneyball encompasses what I have long thought about sports. We live in a medieval era where people have no clue how to judge players, or compare players from different eras.

LeBron's PER/etc. speaks for itself but he needs to play longer though.

 

As of today, LeBron James has a higher PPG average in playoff game 7s than ANYONE IN HISTORY (who faced several such games).

LeBron James: 34.3
Michael Jordan: 33.7

What a choker.

 

LeBron James is the Wilt Chamberlain of his day: so ridiculously physically superior to his peers, yet somehow unable to get over the hump. Of course, without Phil Jackson and Scottie Pippen, the same would've been true of Jordan. It was for the beginning of his career, when he was most statistically amazing.

 

It seems to me players and the league just let James do his star player act these days. Old time players would not have let him do some of chit he does.

For instance, running in from the three point line, timing his jump for a rebound. In the old days, guys like Jim Loscutoff would have made sure he was up ended doing that chit.
Coming down up side down a few times would not be star quality play. Even other old time star players would not appreciate his shtick nor let him have the act, like Elgin Baylor.

No, he isn't in any top all time list.

 

Also the first time he had a team remotely close talent wise to MJ's Bulls teams.

Don't get me wrong, MJ = great, great player. But MJ probably would've struggled with those Cavs teams LeBron had, too.

 

This. After being criticized for years (led by Celtics fans, who ran public opinion the way Lakers fans do now), Chamberlain finally won a championship in his 8th year. James is in his 9th.