Is This the New Atheist Website?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by NewsSource, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Didn't Greg Oden's dog die just that way?

    barfo
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  3. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    How many dogs die from running in front of a car?
     
  4. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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  5. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    I've never seen an old Hershey Bar base jump, so it must be.
     
  6. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    This just makes my point. Your examples of liking sex & fear of heights ARE feelings/instincts. Humans are certainly born with such things, as they are (often) born with the instinct that they are entitled to certain rights.

    However instinctively FEELING that you have rights, and objectively possessing the intrinsic property of rights are entirely different things. When you stipulate the latter you are actually proposing a metaphysical property independent of any subjective standard of rights. That's a monumental step philosophically.

    Admittedly it is one some very smart philosophers do take, but only based on treating such things as morals or rights as Platonically real in the same sense as some do with numbers or mathematical axioms.
     
  7. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    You mean right, or ability? Does a drowning person have the right to breath air? If he does, why isn't he exercising that right?
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Those things and chocolate are people pursuing happiness. Whether ther is language to conceptualize it or not.

    If you like chocolate, you'll put a piece in your mouth and enjoy it. If there's a 2nd piece you'll pursue happiness by eating that too.

    All I was pointing out is you are born with the fear of heights, love of chocolate, fear of loud noises, and to do what makes you happy.
     
  9. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    God hates drowning people, they make obnoxious gasping noises that displease him. Unless they are drowning in chocolate.

    barfo
     
  11. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    If you're in water, you have the right to breathe the water.

    I think this point is silly on your part.

    Nobody or government can tell you to stop breathing. They can kill you which is another thing entirely.
     
  12. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    Except you are referring to things that are instincts, feelings, abilities, and desires as unalienable rights, which doesn't make sense.
     
  13. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Unalienable right: Life. To breathe. Congress couldn't pass a law against breathing, could it? You're born with it as you are with instincts.

    I've already discussed Pursuit of Happiness.
     
  14. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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    So, they can't tell you to stop breathing but they can force you to stop breathing.

    That's a pretty fine distinction.

    barfo
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    They're not able to force you to stop breathing while simultaneously paying taxes so there's that.
     
  16. crowTrobot

    crowTrobot die comcast

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    You mean shouldn't, not couldn't.

    Unless you are ready to propose Platonic moral realism it's not that simple. Humans are generally speaking born with the desire for life and happiness, so that is what we as a relatively evolved society generally choose to value. However that choice is a subjective one and not something indicative of actual objective/intrinsic rights as a property of humans. Other societies throughout history have chosen differently.
     
  17. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It sure seems like the desire for life and happiness is universal. Even in a monarchy, where an evolved society places ownership of every person and thing in the crown, the people breathe and eat chocolate.

    The state might pass a law against those rights, but those cannot be taken away even in that case. The people breathe and eat chocolate regardless of the law.
     
  18. crandc

    crandc Well-Known Member

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    I am a lifelong acrophobe. I don't even like stepladders.

    My cat is intelligent but has no fear of heights. She evolved to climb trees. We evolved to come down from trees. She also has no fear of darkness since she can see in very little light. Humans, who can't see in the dark, fear it.
     
  19. crowTrobot

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    You're still referring to desires, abilities etc., not objective rights.

    When the founding fathers cited unalienable rights they were making a subjective moral judgment about what rights they thought humans should have based on their own values, not actually citing intrinsic physical properties humans are born with such as desires or abilities.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I am absolutely referring to objective rights.

    Read the part about monarchy, which talks about the monarch's rights. The monarch can't prevent people from breathing (life) or eating chocolate (liberty and happiness).

    The only people who can't enjoy these objective rights are those who are brain dead or otherwise incapacitated so they can't.
     

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