There definately would be value out there for Wags, but what quality would you get in return??? There would be plenty of takers, but not many givers. Cali in on song with the call that he is bad at working off the ball. If he's gonna flat out refuse to play anything but shooting guard, he gotta play like one. Watch Allen, Hamilton etc. Work off screeens all day for good looks. They rarely have to force anything. I wouldn't like to see him go, but worth a look at to what available! Welcome over CaliCleveland. Glad you got that problem sorted!
Regarding his D I think it should be noted that he played good aggressive D in the fourth quarter of the Hornets game. I remember him diving for loose balss, getting 1-2 steals, and blocking at least one shot. I was real impressived and abit surprised. I tend to side with those who say lets give him a bit more time. As far as we could have drafted other players who fit better, I know this sucks to say, and I don't want to give Paxson a free ride, but as far as I'm concerned, We GOT LeBron. The math added up. The gods smiled upon us. The chemistry of the ping pong balls worked for us. Any combinations of more wins or losses and that ping pong ball chemistry changes.
If we had Andre Miller, if we had picked Stoudamire instead of Wags, why did we pick Langdon.........BLAH BLAH BLAH Like said above it has brought us LeBron! Like childish people say "nuf said"
i know he can be a little iffy on d and not much of a passer but we are talking about a player who once scored 100 pts in a high school game, that is unbelieveable!! he plays hard and is a natural scorer. use his offensive talents to help the team, he will come around eventually
As much as I like Wags - he doesn't fit in here. He's not versital, as in he can only play the 2 guard, and thats a big problem when our 2 guard is set in stone and plays 40 minutes a night. He's too good to be wasted away on the bench. I'd like to see us try a lineup with LeBron back at point with Wagner at 2 when Silias wants to bring him in....instead of taking LeBron out. And that wont happen often in a game here in Cleveland. I wonder what kind of trade value he has? Could he land us a player like Shawn Marion in Phoenix?
^ Land us Shawn Marion!!!! Um no! I am curious though what Wagner packaged with Battie could bring. Wags just doesn't seem to have a role here, and big men who can play a bit have value! So we may get something we need that way!
We can't lose Battie. Right now the biggest advantage we have in the East is our size. We have 3 7 footers that arn't stiffs. Battie is so valuable because of his defense....I would be against almost any trade that involves him (unless we get another 7 footer)........ and you don't think Wags could land us Shawn Marion or are you saying you don't like Shawn Marion?
I like Shawn Marion, but we would get laughed at if we only offered Wagner! We would have to offer many future picks on top of that as well!
Wagner's all offense, no defense gig isn't going to take him very far in this league. The addition of 3 point range is nice, but he needs to work on distributing the ball and holding his own on the other end of the floor. He's a nice spark plug off the bench, but his trade value isn't very high at this point.
If Wagner played in a zone defense, you could hide his defensive liability. The fact is most NBA players (guards included) cannot play a lick of defense. Other coaches would have found a way to hide his weakness. Since Silas cannot (or chooses not to), Wagner is stuck. But how can you trade him? If you want to trade a player, you increase his minutes to showcase his talent. By benching a player, his trade value stagnates and eventually drops. If the Cavaliers could get a tall point guard and move LeBron to the 3, Wagner could play the 2 on offense and play the 1 on defense. Putting Dajuan on people like Mobley (who is a 2), is not a smart idea. Don't have Dajuan guarding opposing shooting guards. That makes no sense. I've seen him guard Ricky Davis and Mobley and other shooting guards, not point guards. Having Dajuan guard people out of position is not fair. It would be like having LeBron James guard power forwards and centers and wonder why he's getting torched.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting West Remy:</div><div class="quote_post"> If the Cavaliers could get a tall point guard and move LeBron to the 3, Wagner could play the 2 on offense and play the 1 on defense. Putting Dajuan on people like Mobley (who is a 2), is not a smart idea. Don't have Dajuan guarding opposing shooting guards. That makes no sense. I've seen him guard Ricky Davis and Mobley and other shooting guards, not point guards. Having Dajuan guard people out of position is not fair. It would be like having LeBron James guard power forwards and centers and wonder why he's getting torched.</div> I wouldn't go and sign another player just to hide Wagners weaknesses. Wagner himself needs to improve. Dont just blame his size for his defense. He is smaller and quicker yet bigger and slower guards drive around him. There are many undersized guards in the league adjusting. Its time for Wags to do the same!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KarmaCav:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't go and sign another player just to hide Wagners weaknesses. Wagner himself needs to improve. Dont just blame his size for his defense. He is smaller and quicker yet bigger and slower guards drive around him. There are many undersized guards in the league adjusting. Its time for Wags to do the same!</div> It's a simple rule in basketball logic to use an oversized or relatively tall player to hide an undersized player. If you had a short power forward, wouldn't you want a tall center to make up for that? It's simply following the same tangent in regards to Dajuan. Since the Cavaliers lack a tall point guard, he's often on the court with a short point guard, making the backcourt very small. Going back to my earlier example, it would be like having an undersized power forward playing at the same time as an undersized or small center. It couldn't work out unless either of the undersized players are defensive freaks. But I'm not arguing that Dajuan shouldn't show more dedication to improving his defense. That has to come as a professional and as a player on a team with playoff aspirations. If that doesn't make Wagner want to hone in on defense, nothing will. Silas once referred to Dajuan as a project type of player, whom needs years to develop. Juanny is still younger than most players in the league.
I still hold hope for him, but his defense is the main concern. Not one sign of improvement yet! Actually West Remy, our two point guards are not small. Both are 6'3, 6'4. McInnis has played alot of time at shooting guard at Portland with Stoudamire at the point. Baron Davis and David Wesley have coped for years without being defensive stoppers. Iverson has adapted! I believe the ball is in his court to improve rather then the front office finding a player to make up for his deficiencies!
Wagner is still pretty much a rookie and still carries the rookie tendencies. He is behind that 1st year wall and will soon break it down. Wag can score. He is still in a learning process, and with the low minutes he is recieving its taking a little bit longer. Off season should improve him with we decide to make roster changes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting West Remy:</div><div class="quote_post">It's a simple rule in basketball logic to use an oversized or relatively tall player to hide an undersized player. If you had a short power forward, wouldn't you want a tall center to make up for that?</div> This is why when the second teamers come in and LeBron stays on the floor....move LeBron to PG and Wagner to 2 guard. That backcourt would be rediculasly scarey and explosive. And on the defense have Wagner guard the oposing PG and LeBron take the 2. I'd love to see Silias work with it.
Wagner hasn't in any way, turned out to be what they expected. More time is not going to cure that!!................. The Cavs are going to package this kid and move him!! I don't know how, but I'm certain of it!! If they don't, down the line, history is going to prove he's been another in a continuing litany of mistakes!!...................Tank
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting KarmaCav:</div><div class="quote_post">I still hold hope for him, but his defense is the main concern. Not one sign of improvement yet! Actually West Remy, our two point guards are not small. Both are 6'3, 6'4. McInnis has played alot of time at shooting guard at Portland with Stoudamire at the point. Baron Davis and David Wesley have coped for years without being defensive stoppers. Iverson has adapted! I believe the ball is in his court to improve rather then the front office finding a player to make up for his deficiencies!</div> Responsiblity must be taken for one's actions. Yet I still say the backcourt size is an issue. Ollie is listed at 6'2 and it appears to be an accurate measure. J-Mac might not be 6'4 because if he stood next to Jason Kidd, I can guarantee you that McInnis would be the shorter man. Putting the ball back into Wagner's court, he needs to work with a personal trainer to work on lateral quickness and defensive drills. On ESPN's show The Life, he was working with some trainer on side to side drills on a mat that had a reading on the speed of Wagner's shifts. More work like that is needed. ---- I still say for the time being, Wagner will not be packaged. As of right now, you could get nothing for him. Since he hasn't recieved much playing time, you could try to sell people on his "potential" and other teams might say "I haven't seen enough of him to agree or disagree with his supposed potential." I mean, Wagner could be traded now but you would receive much less for him than what you'd want.
Wagner needs to be traded or he needs to get more playing time, this guy can score at will no matter who is up against him. He hasnt proven much because the guy still hasnt played his regular season 82 games. DWags at SG with 30-35min a game will show you guys what he really is, and i do think that he can share the spot-light with Boozer and LeBron.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr_Infante:</div><div class="quote_post">Silias doens't like LeBron handling the ball.</div> No shhhh....Did you think I didnt know that? Thats why I said I wish he would experiment with it. I agree LeBron shouldnt be our point guard. But I think we all can agree he's not to shabby at it. There are times in the game when its smart to tweek your lineup to make the other team to make adjustments, prefibly at the end of the half or to start the second half - and if they don't adjust well don't change back. Thats called creating matchup problems. Then if it works get a lead mix in the Battie's & Williams & Newble's to finish it out on the defensive end down the stretch. We have a deep team and sometimes I don't feel Silias uses enough of his guys.
