I think Denver greatly improves from this trade. Billups is a much better leader than Iverson and should complement Carmelo very well. As for Detroit...uhh, ok Joe D.
At best, this was a lateral move for the Pistons. It definitely doesn't help them, but might not hurt them. Billups, unlike Iverson, was a great leader. He's a player that doesn't need to score to be effective, and he's very unselfish, hence why he fits in great with the Pistons scheme. Iverson adds nothing but a little extra scoring. He's worse on the defensive end (sure, he gets steals, but he's a horrid man defender) and he's not as efficient. So yea, at best, this is a lateral move for them. It doesn't help, and at best, they remain just as good. However, I don't see this working. In my book, this almost looks like a cap dump, since Iverson is done after this year and Billups still had multiple years left.
One less pain in the ass for my Celtics to deal with in May. Now if Orlando can go out and make a stupid trade... Denver comes out great, they're the next tier down from the Rockets, Lakers, Hornets, Jazz, and Spurs now.
One less pain? Detriot wasn't going to be a pain anyways. With the way the Celtics have gelled, there's no way Detriot had a chance against them, my guess we be 5 games, Celtics. This trade, at least, gives them some hope that maybe Iverson can explode in the series and make things interesting. If not, then they're right back where they started, because weren't going to be the Celtics anyways. Except now, they also get a huge expiring contract from Iverson, plus the expiring of Wallace to work with in the offseason.
What is there to work with next offseason? The real free agency period isn't until 2010. You're not telling me that the Pistons are going to out-duel Miami, Toronto, and Cleveland for the services of their respective superstars, are you? Especially with big city teams like the Bulls, Nets, Knicks, and maybe a couple of others also involved. Detroit had a much better chance at a title this season with Billups than they do now with Iverson. They shot those hopes down in hopes of creating cap room this offseason for Mike Bibby, Andre Miller, Hedo Turkoglu, or hoping that Kobe Bryant declines his option? How's that a smart plan?
Because what's the use of hanging onto something, the "core" when it wasn't going to win them anything anyways? Last year, they showed their inferiority to the Celtics (I don't see how that would've changed), and the year before that they choked up a series against the Cavs, and the year before that they lost to the Finals against the Spurs. And each and every year, Wallace and Billups continue getting older and older. There's no way they were going to come out the east this year, there's no way they were going to be the Celtics. So instead of holding onto a roster that could possibly give them 50 wins or so for the next couple of years, and then getting bounced out of the playoffs every year, they decided to take a risk and make a gamble for Iverson, a proven superstar who can take over games and drop 50 at any given moment. Whether that'll work or not, I don't know. All I know is, I don't see the current Pistons team going that far anyways. Dumars said in the offseason that he was going to make a gamble, and he made one here. I support his decision because instead of being a chicken little, he actually went out and made a move when he realized his current core wasn't going to get it done. It may or may not work, but either way, the current Pistons core wasn't going to win anything anyways. And by the 2010 free agency period, the Pistons will only have 11 million under the cap, and assuming they don't go out and hand off big contracts, they'll have more money to spend than Miami, Cleveland, New York, Toronto, etc. Also, just because a team doesn't end up with a Lebron James doesn't mean the 2010 free agency will be a disaster. There's plenty of other players on the market who can make an impact too. As for this whole situation, this may be the last you'll hear from me. Obviously we have different opinions, and that's fine. I don't mind. I just don't want to continue wasting your time because you still have a post in the Lakers forum you still haven't responded to. So I don't feel like getting into a whole different debate with you, especially with a team I could care less about.
'Risk' would imply that this deal has a chance of working out and making the team better than it was. Not the case here. The Pistons didn't 'show their inferiority' to the C's last year, they lost the series in six games, they just lost a crucial game 3 after they had seized momentum in game 2. They had a lot of chances to win that series, I had even picked them going in. If not Boston, Detroit had the best chance to come out of the East this year. Billups and Wallace are getting older yes, but this season that would not have been a problem. Instead of contending for a championship, Dumars packed it in and began to empty his house for an unremarkable 2009 free agent class, and that's being kind. Being chicken little would have been the better option, hands down, at least IMO. What the Pistons will be needing is a franchise building block. Outside of the mega-names like LeBron and Wade, Joe Johnson is the next best option. He led an overachieving Hawks team to 37 wins and a backdoor playoff berth last year, that's about it. Thank you for reminding me! Forgot about that.
Really I dont mind this deal at all for the Pistons. There are 2 reasons why I think Joe D did this deal so early in the season. 1. Denver was already shopping Iverson and Joe D didnt want to sit on a limb till Feb. hearing about other potential iverson deals. 2. Joe D wants to get him in early so the team can mesh all year. There is no doubt that adding Iverson in Feb. would have been a chemistry problem, becuase he is going to take away a lot of shots. So by getting him in October the team can develop around Iverson. In the end, this move was a winner because of the flexibility it provides Joe D in 2010. If the Pistons only sign 1 year contracts this summer, they are looking at close to $50 mil in cap space for 2010 and a roster starting with Prince, Maxiell, Stuckey, Amir Johnson, and Afflalo. That is a pretty nice 5 man set up for LeBron/Wade and Bosh to consider. Now on to Denver... Honestly, im not sure what they are doing. I understand moving Camby to duck under the luxury tax, but then to turn around and trade away a $20 mil expiring contract for additional salaries for next year in addition to the remaining years on Billups' contract makes no sense. I do like adding Billups over Iverson and I think he fits much better with Melo, but are you rebuilding or arent you? Denver is going to be stuck over the cap for the next 3 years and if they use their MLE they will be nearning luxury tax level after signing their rookies. Adding Billups is nice, but what is the cost? If they move Billups at the deadline or this summer (draft) then we know they are rebuilding, but it sure isnt going to be easy with Nene and Martin's contracts.
We talkin' about practice?!?! http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2008/11/04/nba_det_iverson_practice.nba/?player=whatsnew FUNNY!
SportsTwo is one of the most anti-Iverson sites on the net, though this thread was not quite as fiercely anti-Iverson as I expected, but very anti-Iverson though. I'm kind of disappointed; I wanted to see even more Iverson hatred and even more "Iverson can't..." statements than are here. All of my (what to this site will be extreme pro-Iverson points laugh out loud) are in the Nuggets forum so you can go there if you have not been. I just want to add here for any Pistons viewer that Dumars must have known that McDyess would never play for Denver, and would probably end up back in Detroit. Whether or not Denver knew that McDyess would never play, it is obvious that the Nuggets are self destructing and heading in the direction of the bottom of the West. The owner, Stanley Kroenke and his wife are ultra rich, but they are big in real estate, retail, and the investing business, and these days they are losing millions of dollars a day. They are clearly in a financial panic that is probably much more of a panic than other owners are going through. They don't give a damn what happens to the Nuggets these days compared with what happens to their vast investment holdings. On the streets they would say that the Nuggets "got played." They did indeed, and they may be aware of that and not care. From my vantage point, the Nuggets are going to end up paying a huge penalty for not knowing how to work Iverson into their team. While the Pistons, by working Iverson in correctly, have a golden opportunity to demonstrate a big difference between a top tier franchise and an also ran franchise: the top tier franchises do what it takes to make sure every superstar has a good scheme for success and the other franchises don't.
If the Nuggets kept Iverson and did not make this trade, then they would be self-destructing. They got played? Denver won this trade. They acquired a solid point guard who is a proven winner and fills in a lot of holes the Nuggets had in their backcourt. Iverson departing also opens up more oppurtunities for J.R. Smith, whose scoring numbers will really jump because of this. Smith can make up for a fair bit of the scoring threat Denver lost with Iverson, and they also came away with a quality point guard who adds another perimeter threat, plays good defense, and hits big shots... something Denver hasn't had out of their point guard position in quite a while. McDyess doesn't matter, the Nuggets have plenty of forwards one way or the other. Detroit did well to acquire Iverson's expiring contract so they can dream about LeBron/Bosh/Wade in 2010. That's why the Pistons made this trade. The Pistons did not make this trade for the sole purpose of getting Allen Iverson to suit up in a Detroit uniform. This deal hurts the Pistons on the court (for this year). Billups was their leader. Now Detroit has no floor general and three shooting guards, two of them undersized and as a result will be forced to play point guard. Not to mention that, if things didn't work out with Iverson in Denver, in an offense that best plays to his strengths, how is it going to work out in Detroit?
Actually i would say detroit won by a landslide. They rented a hall of famer for a season, and have the biggest expiring contract in the league. Denver isn't making the playoffs. Pretty east to say without even seeing them play one game together. That WAS NOT the best offense for Iverson. Iverson is at his best when hes in the half court breaking down defenses and running off screens. George Karl is one of the worst coaches in the league and had no clue how to make his talent work for him. Another example of Karl's incompetence is him STILL not starting JR smith even after the trade. Hes an idiot. oh really? i never noticed... most people here just started watching Iverson in his later days in philly and his short stint in Denver. No one knows about when he was with larry brown and was a top 3 player in the league.
Again, until it's proven on the court that Iverson can coexist and play in a system that won't allow him to jack up 22 shots per game, we can't say whether or not they won this trade. Well, to an extent, you're being hypocritical here. You're saying this is a huge win despite Iverson not playing with them yet, so he's got the right to say that it was a loss. It works in the same way, just one is a negative slight towards AI, which you take offense to. Iverson is not a very good halfcourt player, at all. He's got an inconsistent jumper and is TINY. He's better out on the run when he can get to the hoop with more ease, instead of working his way through screens. In a run 'n gun, he doesn't have to rely on his jumper either, which is good, because that, as I stated, is inconsistent. Really? You clearly don't know the vet posters here. Me, Shape, Petey, etc. were all around to watch Iverson when he was with Philly. Hell, I remember his MVP season very well. I also remember his great Philly team got crushed by the Lakers that year. It's not that we don't know...it's just that we don't have a bias towards Iverson, which you clearly do.
The Pistons really destroyed that "poise" core with this trade. Iverson is a good player: he can score, and he's quick BUT isn't as good of a leader as Chauncey is. I watched the Pistons vs the Nets and the Pistons don't look the same nor do they give off that "OH SHIT IT'S THE PISTON'S" effect they used to have. This may change over time, but Chauncey was a critical piece in what made the Pistons the Pistons. Both players are happy with the trade, but it was still a poor decision by the Pistons....I think the Nuggets got the better end of the deal.
I agree with that statement. I have always viewed Iverson as a player who could kill you in a half court 1 on 1 setting. Playing in a fast paced offense seems like its a great idea beacuse how can you guard him on the break? However, Iverson is going to shoot 20-25 times a game anyway and going 1 on 1 is going to send him to the foul line, where he has made a living. Its pretty clear he is at his best when the team relies on him to create his own shot, because he is going to take the shot anyways. The Pistons dont need him to create his shot, so it remains to be seen how well he fits in, but he definitely needs to cut down on his shots, because most of the Pistons can already create high percentage shots by themselves. I dont agree with this one though. Karl is no Pop, but he is one of the winningest coaches in NBA history. I just think Denver had hit its peak with Iverson, Camby, and Melo and they werent going to get any better, it just didnt work. As for JR Smith, Karl clearly is not fond of him, but I have to believe he will end up starting at SG soon beacuse Jones is terrible. The problem with starting Smith is that Billups is your only defender.
