Wow, way to bring us back down to earth; I did not realize he was shooting that bad from the 3 even in D-league.
True, but again the same was said about CJ. Yet it was kind of obvious that CJ's shooting would come along. Using Jake's current fg% right now, is just as useless as when some tried to make a case that CJ "sucked" early in his 2nd season. It is just way too early. I am not saying that Layman is a sure thing to make an impact, but IMHO hitting the wide open shots that Harkless and Aminu often get now because of the presence of Dame and CJ........ will not be an issue for Jake. There might be other issues, but I can't possibly see that as one of them. Again I am not saying he deserves playing time right now, just that he will be getting them by this time next year. He could of course be traded, or others could be traded to make room for him. Hopefully he stays healthy.
Regardless of his current shooting percentages, there's NO WAY Jake is a worse offensive player than Aminu. Aminu's shot is unfix-able, while Jake has a pretty nice looking shot. Also, Jake can dribble the ball.
Quick questions: Layman vs. Biebs. What can Layman do that Biebs can't? What can Biebs do that Layman can't? Lots and very little are my early answers, but I'd like to hear yours. I'm talking about actual basketball skills like dribbling, passing, filling the lane, defending, ...
Obviously Jake is better suited for SF as he is moves much better, and he has better handles and can attack the basket. Right now we seem to be only useing Meyers as a stretch 4 on offense. IMO Jake is probably just as good at this as he can guard stretch 4's much better. (Even though I want him at SF) Leonard on the other hand can guard centers, while Jake cannot. So if we have a PF who can protect the rim and dominate the boards we could actually play Jake and Leonard at the same time. It would give us 4 3 pt shooters on the floor at one time. But I doubt that is what you were hinting at.
Man - can you imagine if both Jake and Meyers somehow became rotation worthy players? And then we were to somehow grab a two-way PF to help with defensive issues? Hell, we may not even need a two-way PF at that point - someone like Tristan Thompson would probably be just fine. Dame/CJ/Jake/TT/Meyers. Of course it is all theoretical at this point, as it seems pretty clear that Meyers will never develop into a rotation player while wearing a Blazers jersey. But if we somehow got a new coach this summer who was able to make it happen, the shooting would be incredible. I think I'd still start Harkless over Theoretical Jake, as Harkless really seems to play better when he's playing with Dame. (I really don't understand why Harkless was replaced in the starting line-up.)
I agree with everything except replacing the coach. This theoretical lineup is pretty much designed for a Terry Stotts offense IMO. Another coach might want a entirely different style.
As objectively as possible: What can Layman do that Biebs can't? Put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket and not look like a total spaz doing it. Shoot without hesitation. Guard players shorter than 6'11" What can Biebs do that Layman can't? Occasionally make a wide open 3-pointer. Set a pick. Guard players taller than 6'9". Piss off the opposition. Not sure where you are going with this. I see them as two totally different players that play different position that require different skill sets. Layman's best position will be small forward. Leonard's best position is center. Other than the fact that they are both white, play for the Trail Blazers and are both reasonably young, I don't see that they have all that much in common. To me, this is kind of asking someone to compare Evan Turner to Ed Davis (both black, both Trail Blazers, both about the same age - one is a wing and the other a big). As much hatred as Leonard gets around here. There is a reason he's playing in the NBA and Layman is playing in the D League. With Harkless, Turner, Aminu and Crabbe all being capable of playing SF, and all doing it better than Layman. He really doesn't fill a need right now. Leonard, on the other hand, plays a position of need (even if he doesn't play it exceptionally well), especially with Davis hurt (and having a shitty, underwhelming season). He sets the screens needed to free up our guards better than anyone else on the team, and in spite of him having a down shooting year, still shoots WAY better than Layman (talking results, not form - you don't get style points in the NBA) and he also has a reputation as a good enough 3-pointer you can't leave him wide open at the 3-point line for too long. And for all the talk about Layam making a couple good passes in the D League, Leonard is a least as good passing the ball and has done it against NBA level competition. He ain't great, but he's a known quantity that fills a need. I think this is management's way of either showcasing Layman as a possible sweetener in a trade, or re-evaluating his potential should we trade one of our many other small forward players (like Crabbe). Probably a little of both. As has been mentioned several times, this team needs more shooters, and if we give up Crabbe, that gets us down to just ONE player (C.J.) that shoots better than league average from 3-point range (although Dame and Meyers are close and could bounce back). I think management hopes Layman can become that additional shooter we need. Unfortunately (so far at both the NBA and D League levels, that's not been the case) Unfortunately, in spite of all the Layman gushing in this thread, he's shooting almost as bad in the D Leagues as he was in the NBA (.392 FG% and .217 3FG%). I know the Laymanites will say, oh, no, no, you blasphemous stat geek, that doesn't count, doesn't mean a damn thing, small sample size, he shoots without hesitation and looks pretty doing so, harumph, harumph, harumph! Well, how many small samples sizes does it take to make a large (or at least a meaningful) sample size? And, if this is our way of showcasing Layman, please only send opposing GMs his highlight reel and hope they don't bother to look up his stats. BNM
A year for some rookies, 2 years for others. Smart organizations tend to be patient and develop their young talent knowing that the jump to the NBA is a big one. Of course they are also smart enough to draft the right player and to cut them loose if they were wrong. I think Layman is a keeper at this point, at least until he can build real trade value.
Not necessarily a new head coach, but how about an actual fucking big man coach? Shit, if I was Paul Allen, I'd toss a half million, or even a million, if that's what it takes, at each of Kevin McHale, Hakeem Olajuwon and Patrick Ewing to spend three months this summer working with Meyers Leonard, Noah Vonleh and Mason Pumlee (or whoever we get to replace him) working on actual big man skills. Have each coach spend a month with each player and rotate all three coaches through all three players. We have already invested so much money in these players (and are looking at possibly investing a LOT more). Why not spend a small fraction of that actually trying to make them better? Yeah, I know the traditional NBA big man is dead, but basic fundamental skills like boxing out, rebounding, setting picks, playing defense and being an actual damn scoring threat in the paint, are all still valuable skills to have that would make these players, and our team, so much better. BNM
I'm not saying we should cut Layman loose anytime soon. We've got him locked up for two and a half more seasons (with 1.5 of those being guaranteed). Might as well see how he develops. I''m also not saying he can't improve. What I am saying is he's not close to being an NBA rotation player now, nor will he be in the immediate future. After that magical 8 minutes of garbage time against GSW, there were multiple posters in this thread saying he should be starting, or at least getting Turner's minutes. And, there are still people thinking he will be starting for us next season. It's funny, I've been called a diehard homer because I want the team to win, but I haven't lost all objectivity. If Jake Layman is our starting SF a year from now, we're in big trouble. If he works really hard over the summer, I could see him growing into a rotation player, but he'd have to pass all of Turner, Harkless, Aminu and Crabbe (or whoever is left after any trades) to earn that starting spot, and I just don't see that happening as quickly (or possibly ever) as many would hope. On the other hand, I'd love to be proven wrong. BNM
Yep, I have been since I started posting in these forums 15 years ago. Where you been noob? It may be quaint and old fashioned, but signing my posts is my way of taking ownership for what I write. BNM
Turner can guard a guard. This takes pressure off either Dame or CJ on defense. Also, Turner can make plays on offense so that Dame AND CJ can play off the ball. Harkless can't do either things and has actually been scoring well off the bench. Furthermore, we are playing better and winning. Since the lineup change, we are 4-2 and with a Plumlee layup and a Turner 3 at the respective buzzers, we'd be 6-0. Can't argue with success.
I understand your point and agree with most of it. He is a rookie.....and rookie's need time to adjust, even those who play 4 years of college. But in a Terry Stotts offense he looks like a good fit. I would love for Terry to tell ET and Aminu to stop shooting wide open 3's and attack the basket instead. Hell I am not sure they even want to shoot so many, but it sounds like Terry keeps encouraging them to do so, and if that is the case then Jake might get an opportunity next year. Personally I think the Blazers will trade some wings this summer, especially if they have confidence in Layman. The question is not how Jake compares to Leonard, but how he compares to Crabbe. If you want to get value back in a trade without moving CJ....Crabbe will be a key piece in that trade.
Yep, that's what I said previously, that this is management's way of seeing if Layman has the potential to fill Crabbe's shoes if we trade him. And, honestly, I'll probably get hammered for saying it in this thread, but I think that's Layman's upside - a solid bench player, but not a stater on a decent team. He's already defied the odds by actually making an NBA roster as the 47th pick in the draft. Anything else is gravy. If he eventually cracks the top 8 man rotation on a playoff team, that's tremendous value from a 47th pick. BNM
Well if Layman gets half as long a chance/leash as Meyers has had from the Blazers; then there's a good chance we'll end up with something. Layman has shown that he actually has an idea of what to do on a basketball court.
Yeah. In fact, I get annoyed when Aminu DOESN'T shoot IMMEDIATELY. He fakes on the perimeter way too much.
I say a new coach because it's highly unlikely that Meyers will ever develop into a rotation player under Stotts. I still think there's a chance he could develop into a rotation player, but he needs to play under a new coach within the next season or two if he hopes to salvage his career.
