Couldn't we say the same thing about Olshey not having a plan for if Evan Turner, Allen Crabbe, Meyers Leonard, Harkless, and Festus weren't worth $200m in the summer of 2016. Or why he didn't have a plan for us to be a contender if he whiffed on obtaining meaninful talent with 3 first round picks in 2017? Also, how would any reporter know what Cronin's plans are? Do you think he's sharing all of them with Jake Fischer? If people want to make a claim that they aren't thrilled with the NOP trade, that's perfectly acceptable. Believing that an entire front office is spending 40+ hours a week only thinking about one plan and they have no alternative plans is nearly impossible to believe. I'm hard on Olshey, but I wouldn't even begin to claim that his only plan to build championship around Dame was trading five 1st round picks for Collins, RoCo, and Nance. I'm sure Olshey had a lot of plans that were bad or that he failed to execute.
You're mixing separate trades for the value they were willing to give up in THIS trade. They gave up less to US by CJ working out than if he DID work out for them. You can keep coming up with excuses, but that is inexcusable.
We're not talking about any Olshey trade. I take it you can't come up with an example either so you have to resort to "you don't know what the GM did" excuses? Again, it doesn't matter, he lost the negotiations, big time.
It was pretty clear this was coming. I like the way Joe comes off as a person but I worry that he might be a little too nice to make the shrewd moves that will be necessary in order to keep his word to Dame, that he will build and contender around him. I still hope that we hire a president of basketball operations really soon but I'm not holding my breath. Like I said above I don't think Joe is shrewd enough and it seems that if he accomplishes his goals in a trade that to this point I don't think are ambitious or competitive enough, that he doesn't really care if he's overpaying the other team but this is a fucking street fight and you can't let another GM get over on you as bad as he already has twice. So a critical basketball mind keeping that charitable spirit towards rival front offices, being in charge of Joe would be nice. The Pelicans owned 5 first round picks (if the Lakers pick conveyed which it did) between the pick of theirs that didn't convey this year and the 2025 Bucks first rounder. The further away a pick is and the more promising the future of the team whose pick it is, the lower the value. So Joe had 5 picks with higher value that should have all been on the table as contingencies. He negotiated a deal that would punish us if it was better for the Pelicans than if it was worse for them. So if what we sent out was better than originally thought we got a worse return... how the fuck is that OK?!? So Joe has two big trades that he shit the bed on... I don't know how anyone can see it any other way. CJ and Larry for Hart, Didi and the Bucks 2025 first... fucking sucks especially when Joe thought it was going to be a pick in this draft between 9 and 12. Norm and RoCo for Justise and Keon is a fucking joke and a joke that he pulled the trigger on way too soon. For all of you who basically say that these were the best deals possible because they were the ones we made, what fucking cave have you been living in? GMs make bad deals all of the time... I can't guarantee you we could have done better but the returns we ended up with were not acceptable. NAW for Ingles could be a milk toast neutral move in value, that does make sense given Dame's timeline but it's risky when considering that Ingles had been on the decline before he blew his ACL. That's still a limited sample size and I hope Joe never allows other teams to get over on us like the Clippers and Pelicans did, regardless of if he's being pressured by ownership to manage the cap or not. It's a bad precedent that he's set and I think he might have a really hard time getting fair value from other GMs because they saw that the guy will just give away productive players for way less value than they're worth if a better deal isn't handed to him on a silver platter. (I left out the second round picks because we buy them for cash all of the time) This isn't some nightmare scenario because those deals are done and we can all hope that they're the worst deals of Joe's career. We will get to see very soon what this guy can do because he's going to have to get creative in order to keep his word to Dame. I'm nervous about what he does on draft day but I'm also hopeful that it's fantastic and completely changes my opinion of him and puts GMs around the league on notice that he's not someone they can get over on. I wish Joe Cronin all of the luck in the world and hope he's a fantastic GM for us for a long time because he seems like a good guy and it just behooves me as a Blazers fan. GO BLAZERS!!!
Lawyers call this an argument that proves too much. Olshey made some horrible mistakes and screwed up our cap space situation in the process. Who was his resident cap expert? The guy who just got handed the job without the franchise even interviewing other candidates. Re ipsa loquitor.
For me, definitely after. I'm going to hope that the whole league supposedly knowing that he had a mandate from ownership to slash salaries (which if this is the case what in the actual fuck are we doing) and that his interim title really crippled him in February. So I think he might be able to put his foot down... if he's capable of that sort of thing and tell GMs he talks to now that it's a whole new ball game. I'm hoping for really good things in June and July. So if we think that June and July suck, we would want to start that the fire Cronin talk then but a thread would be a joke because the Vulcan's are on the hook for a four year deal and if they don't have cause, they're not firing this guy.
The NO pick conveys if PG doesn’t contract Covid-19 the day before the game vs the Pelicans. Please show me the predictive model that would have forecasted this.
I'm not following you Well, it was looking pretty likely that we would have 2 picks until the Lakers were unable to get it going. And even after that until the day of the play in game when PG was scratched. I would have been operating under that assumption at that point as well... But, shit happens. The Pels aren't stupid. They may have been willing to gamble their pick knowing they controlled their own destiny, but unwilling to leverage the Laker pick. The same reasons you're claiming Cronin should have included the option mat well be the exact reasons the Pels didn't want to. The odds of them getting 2 lotto picks would have dropped from something like 50/50 to 0.
For those defending the selection, I have a simple question: what did the team gain by giving the job to Cronin without at least interviewing other candidates? Who whispered in Jody's ear and convinced her not one other qualified candidate was interested in the job?
What lost us the pick isn't what matters... I don't understand why that's so unclear to some of you. The fact that the pick could be lost if the Pelicans did better than expected and that the value of the pick that would convey if we did lose the pick was such a huge drop off when 5 other options with better value were available is what matters.
1) It's not a foregone conclusion the Clippers win. Which again goes back to my statement where you have to account for every scenario. 2) The Clippers had a lead against Minnesota with a couple minutes left. If they win that it doesn't matter that PG got Covid. 3) However it happened in hindsight doesn't excuse that a good GM would've negotiated a better deal should it occur.
We can't know for sure what the hiring process looked like and I think the people that believe that there weren't possibly better trades available at the deadline otherwise we would have found them and made them will also be saying some silly shit that resembles that. I mean if there were better GM candidates available that's who would be our GM, right? Obviously that's not right and it does seem like ownership doesn't have any ambition when it comes to how competitive this team is... or Joe's a genius and he's going to surprise us all.
What did they gain?? A young GM with connections, and is widely respected around the league. I saw it every night. Players/coaches from the visiting teams all exchanging pleasantries with him. The absolutely TRUST him. A trusted GM is crucial. The Blazers haven't had one since Bucky Buckwalter. Oh, but ya'll just keep goin' on about what you think you know, how other GM's are gonna line up to "fleece this guy" (i actually saw this in a anti-Joe post!) I'll just keep goin' on with what I have actually seen.
some really revised history in this thread. These were the standings on the day of the trade: to say the Pelicans KNEW that if they made the playoffs it would be at the expense of the Lakers is bullshit The Lakers were only a half game behind the Clippers for 8th and AD was back after missing 17 games. And the Lakers led the Pels by 4.5 games. There was a 6 team race for the two play-in spots (7 if you count the Kings). 4-5 teams in the race were going to be in the lottery. The Pels made the playoffs at the expense of the Lakers AND the Spurs AND the Clippers and since everybody is NOW going ballistic about not having that Laker's pick I'd like anybody going ballistic about it now to point to a post where they were going ballistic about not having back in February. Obviously, nobody here is being paid big bucks to be GM, but if you're all pissed off now you should have been pissed off in February specifically about not having that extra chance of a lottery pick something else, and I've mentioned this before: since people are pretending that if Portland had the Lakers pick everything would be copacetic...if the Pels would have agreed to convey the better of those picks they would have most definitely made each top-4 protected. So then, if the Lakers jump into the top-4 in the lottery those pretending the Lakers pick is the difference would be ok with the lottery result and wouldn't bitch about it...right?
Example of what? I have no proof of any negotiations, in favor or against Cronin (or Olshey) . If you have these things, please share it.
At the very worst, they have somebody who will be easy to flush when the team sells and didn't waste resources finding somebody else.
I do share this concern that Cronin will not be an upgrade and/or will share similar methodology that failed the Olshey era. I do NOT think Cronin is the answer to turning this franchise around. However, my point is that people still seem to acting as if they know what else was available for CJ, what ownerships directives were, etc. without providing ANY evidence to back up the claim that vastly superior deals were available.
