I didn't realize that's all we got for Josh Hart. You know, the player we were going to lose for no return at all.
This makes me wonder how much people will be disappointed when we trade other productive players for FRP and then complain when said pick that already has a low chance of being a legit player flames out.
In his first 4 years in the league Rose averaged between 35-37 MPG before injuries set in. For comparison, MJ average 38 MPG for his entire career. Rose blew out his knees (Ligament & Miniscus tears) which can happen on any one play especially for guys who are super explosive. STOMP
I don't think it was a certainty Hart was going to opt out early and walk. It was pretty damn likely though; at least is was pretty likely if Hart wanted to stay married but the trade had more moving parts than just Hart and the Knicks draft pick. Portland got back the 23rd pick and Thybulle as well as taking a flyer on Reddish however, the Blazers didn't just give up Hart. They also gave up TWO 2nd round picks: the more favorable of Portland's or New Orleans' 2027 2nd's; and, Portland's 2029 2nd round pick when you're rolling the dice on future events, it's almost always a win-some/lose-some gamble (which is why a successful tank takes time). I don't think you can pencil in Murray in the loss column quite yet. His rookie season was such that it might be leaning loss compared to the generic value of a 23rd pick. At the same time, while Murray has definite flaws in his game, one of them is not BBIQ. That BBIQ might mean he'll become a solid player; not starting-level solid probably, but lower rotation solid....maybe Thybulle has some value. Obviously, not anywhere close to the value of Hart. But he can be an effective role player on a good roster. He's kind of wasted on Portland considering the team trajectory; and if he isn't traded between now and the trade deadline I'd say he's even more likely to opt out and walk next summer than Hart was last summer anyway, I don't think Cronin should get much positive credit for that trade. He sent out the best player, by far, but devalued the gain of a first round pick by the loss of those 2nd's. That doesn't look like good GM-ing to me
And he sent Hart someplace he wanted to be. I'm not a huge Cronin fan, but I'm not sure if there was a better deal out there for Cronin to make. We weren't going to be able to trade Hart for a taller Josh Hart.
Everyone I've heard who has even a shred of legitimate contact with the team or Hart says the same thing. Dude was 100% gone and he made that 100% clear to Cronin.
That’s exactly what I’ve heard but my contacts are very few and nowhere near what I would call Woj worthy. Also what you just said seems to be the line that makes it cool was there was no hemming around or beating around the bush for money. He was upfront from the beginning.
as I said, Portland didn't trade Hart alone; they traded Hart + two 2nd's for Thybulle and a 23rd pick. I'm not willing to credit that trade as being the best Portland could have done
I think getting a 1st round pick is good value for an expiring role player you know is walking at the end of the season. That seems like it should be roughly the going value for a player of Hart's talent level. I think 2 2nds is an ok deal for someone of Thybulle's talent level, considering we got 3 2nds for a comparable player in GPII. Overall I see that as an easy win for Cronin.
Fair enough. I don't view 2nds as assets to get hung up about. They help get deals done and once in a blue moon they turn into a productive player. But we have a ton of 2nds. As @RR7 says above, I was stoked to get a first out of Hart. I was super excited at getting 'Tiss out of a small portion of our glut of 2nd rounders.
Agreed. And I don't have any contacts. But I read people who do. And the ones I trust and who have been reliable all tend to agree on all of this.
It's only worth getting hung up on if we're the ones sending them. If we were getting 2nds in a deal, they'd likely be pooh-poohed as meh whatever picks.
I'd guess the majority of trades in the league fall under the category of "not being the best <insert team> could've done". Of course, we'll never know what other options were on the table, so it's impossible to say either way. Looking back, I can't imagine there were many teams bidding against the Knicks in wanting Hart as a 2 month rental and/or lock him down for $100m long term.
fine...I was just pushing back a little on the claim that the Knicks trade was the best Portland could have done.
Not that I think Cronin knocked it out of the park, I just can't think of what more we could have "expected" in that situation.
Gotcha. I just remember some people echoing the sentiment that Thibs played him too many minutes. I guess I was wrong. I think the wear down injuries with players these days has a lot to do with all the AAU play when they’re young/
if I haven't been clear, my skepticism is based upon Portland trading Hart plus 2 picks for Thybulle + 1 pick. That doesn't look that great of a trade to me; but I'll grant there are some extenuating circumstances I guess in the interest of 'completion' the trade ended up being CJ + Nance + two 2nds for Grant + Thybulle + Murray + one 2nd. I think that was a decent trade, generically. Kind of a waste for a roster and timeline like Portland's
