JVG: "I refuse to play them (Bonzi & Snyder) together"

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There are multiple ways of beating a zone. Depending on 3's every nite isn't gonna win a championship. We need to find different ways to win. If Tmac's creating, we're gonna get any shot we want. Just a matter of who's on the court.</div>There are a multitude of ways of beating the zone, the thing is though, having a big helps a lot, and that lineup doesn't have one. Without one, penetrating/slashing (same thing in my book) isn't as easy (at least if it's a good zone), pick and rolls won't be as easy, and ball movement won't be as effective if you have no one to dump it in the post to either. The fact is, while there's a lot of ways to beat a zone, it's done most effectively with a post player on the court. Otherwise, shooting jumpers is going to be the main thing you're doing.
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I'm disappointed at ur lack of Rocket knowledge. Each game we've played against Dallas this year, Dirk's been guarded by Battier (and Howard). The fact is, Dirk's been anything BUT spectactular. So if you think player's like Dirk would "have a field day" against Battier, then thus far ur completley mistaken. Battier can guard Dirk as good as ANYBODY in the league. Howard always plays Dirk well too. </div>I'm disappointed about lack of knowledge of your favorite team. I'm just wondering, what do you define as a bad game? So far against Dallas this year Dirk has gone of for 24/4/1 (rebounds were..well...bad), 30/10/6 and 15/8/2, all in all for an average of 23/7.33/3. While it's somewhat containing him, it's by no means a spectacular job. And it becomes less than spectacular when you realize he hit 26/51 shots, and even less when you realize that Dallas won 2 out of the 3 games as well.
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Once again, you haven't done ur homework son. Battier ALREADY held Dirk, and he's really never had a great game against us. On the other hand, JOSH HOWARD has killed us in every game this year. Keep in mind, Bonzi hasn't played against Dallas and Snyder played very little. So we still have yet to play our most athletic bench players. </div>And once again, you're wrong. Dirk had his spectacular game against them earlier this year (Jan 16 to be exact) when he hit 9/19 from the floor, 10/10 from the line and went off for 30 points, 10 rebounds and 6 assists. If that's not a great game, describe what one is. And also, why not bring up Amare? Oh, probably because he's torched them for 22/11 and 22/15. I mean, why bring up someone that they haven't defended worth a damn this year. Heaven forbid you admit someone is right

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Lamar Odom? C'mon, you have to be kiddin. Odom's a very solid player, but Snyder can defend him as good as anybody. Bonzi's currently playin PF RIGHT NOW, and he's rebounding well. So once again, you're totally clueless of reality</div>Something makes me think differently. Snyder is all of 6'5" or 6'6" and Odom is about 6'10" or 6'11". Firstly, huge height advantage and length advantage for Odom. That alone would allow him to murder Snyder in the post. And if you don't believe that that kind of length alone is enough to torment someone, why don't you ask Shawn Marion, an All NBA Defender (something neither Bonzi nor Snyder can stake claim to) as to how easy it is. And if you don't recall, let me refresh you as to what Odom did to Marion last year in the playoffs. He averaged 19/11/5 on 50% shooting against, let me repeat, an ALL NBA DEFENDER. For some odd reason, I struggle to believe a 6'5" SG named Kirk Snyder can stop a 6'11" PF in Lamar Odom if an all NBA Defender in Shawn Marion can't do it.

 

Not sure if it was you or Bynum I told this to Moo, but I said the Lakers were overachieving when they were like 28-14 and I think Bynum said that didn't make sense cuz they were supposed to win there home games. Well, he took it wrong, I meant they were going to start losing cuz I didn't believe Kobe's team mates could keep playing that good (plus all the road games to come).

Last I checked the NYK were up 2 on them in the 3rd quarter...let's check on that game. Well, well, well waddaya know...they lost to the Knicks (and to the Cavs when LeBron was off).

Now they are 30-24.

Don't even mention injuries.

 

<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Out of those....the only one effective in beating the zone is ball movement. Zone is meant to combat the other four...</div>
Depending on "what" zone you use. Post options can break zones down too.


<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Another statement that shows yo dont know what the hell you are talking about.
Tmac rarely runs point for us. It has always been either Rafer or Head. Running the point requries you to bring up the ball and setup the offense. Tmac has always been the transition guy. Either the ball ends up with him shooting, or it ends up with him passing. If you played him at point, you would have the defense focused on him to begin with. You would also create an offensive setup in which it would be difficult for him to score in. </div>
I can't believe ur actually tellin me this. After all the Rocket games on tv, ur tellin me that Tmac rarely runs point. I can't do anything but laugh You have to be completley blind if you don't see Tmac bringing the ball up court and intiating the offense all these games. This is why I can't debate you, you conjure up bogus statements like this one. For the record Foo, yes Tmac has spent plenty time at point and WILL in upcoming games. If I were you, I'd back away from that statement before it comes back to bite you lol.


<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know where the loyal Rafer fan comment came from. All I said was he was a good passer. He is less also turnover proned then Mcgrady. The main concern that everyone shares about rafer (me included) is the fact that he shoots too many shots.
You do NOT want to put the burden of a point guard at Mcgrady. The whole point is to let Mcgrady score.</div>
Burden? At 6'8, playin point guard might be Mcgrady at his best. Plus it's only right our best decision maker have the ball. Rafer's erratic at times, so is Luther. The fact you don't acknowledge that further proves my point.

<div class="quote_poster">foo82 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">As people mention earlier, the zone will tear the offense apart. If Mcgrady draws a double team and he passes out, its going to be wasted because your lineup consists of only one person with an outside shot. Don't even compare this offense to Phoenix. Phoenix is surrounded by 3 point shooters WHICH CAN TEAR DOWN ZONE DEFENSE. Same applies to Dallas. The lineup you propse only has one legit 3 point threat.
Also..whos going to rebound against the more physical guys big guys? It sure as hell isnt going to be Juwan.</div>
Why not Juwan? He's a good rebounder. He's definatley better than you expected him to be. Zones can always be penetrated with the right decisions. Jacking 3's up is an option, but if ur patient you'll get a better look. 3's can either break a zone or help it. But settling for them is exactly what the other team wants, that's why it's good to have midrange shooters and slashers. Which describes Bonzi & Snyder to a Tee.

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">There are a multitude of ways of beating the zone, the thing is though, having a big helps a lot, and that lineup doesn't have one. Without one, penetrating/slashing (same thing in my book) isn't as easy (at least if it's a good zone), pick and rolls won't be as easy, and ball movement won't be as effective if you have no one to dump it in the post to either. The fact is, while there's a lot of ways to beat a zone, it's done most effectively with a post player on the court. Otherwise, shooting jumpers is going to be the main thing you're doing.</div>
Tmac is a creator. Bonzi is ur post player. Next topic

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm disappointed about lack of knowledge of your favorite team. I'm just wondering, what do you define as a bad game? So far against Dallas this year Dirk has gone of for 24/4/1 (rebounds were..well...bad), 30/10/6 and 15/8/2, all in all for an average of 23/7.33/3. While it's somewhat containing him, it's by no means a spectacular job. And it becomes less than spectacular when you realize he hit 26/51 shots, and even less when you realize that Dallas won 2 out of the 3 games as well.
And once again, you're wrong. Dirk had his spectacular game against them earlier this year (Jan 16 to be exact) when he hit 9/19 from the floor, 10/10 from the line and went off for 30 points, 10 rebounds and 6 assists. If that's not a great game, describe what one is. And also, why not bring up Amare? Oh, probably because he's torched them for 22/11 and 22/15. I mean, why bring up someone that they haven't defended worth a damn this year. Heaven forbid you admit someone is right</div>
Bottomline......Dirks only averaging 23pts & 7rebs against the Rockets. That's FAR from a field day. Amare's averagin 22pts and 13rebs which is good, but not what I'd label as "murdering" our frontline. That's a far stretch of ur imagination. I'd take that from both of those players ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. If Battier can hold Dirk and Amare to around 20pts, the job is done. Simple as that.

<div class="quote_poster">Moo2K4 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Something makes me think differently. Snyder is all of 6'5" or 6'6" and Odom is about 6'10" or 6'11". Firstly, huge height advantage and length advantage for Odom. That alone would allow him to murder Snyder in the post. And if you don't believe that that kind of length alone is enough to torment someone, why don't you ask Shawn Marion, an All NBA Defender (something neither Bonzi nor Snyder can stake claim to) as to how easy it is. And if you don't recall, let me refresh you as to what Odom did to Marion last year in the playoffs. He averaged 19/11/5 on 50% shooting against, let me repeat, an ALL NBA DEFENDER. For some odd reason, I struggle to believe a 6'5" SG named Kirk Snyder can stop a 6'11" PF in Lamar Odom if an all NBA Defender in Shawn Marion can't do it.</div>
Odom hasn't developed a consistent low post game in his career yet. He played great in the playoffs, but often looks uninspired in the triangle. Bad example on ur behalf

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Tmac is a creator. Bonzi is ur post player. Next topic</div>Bonzi may be a post player, but he's not going to get any worthwile position against a legit 4 like Brand, Duncan, etc. I don't care how strong he is, he's a 3 and nothing but. The reason you think he's a good post player is because he can back other 3s down. If he were to try and back down Duncan, Brand, or hell, even Kwame Brown, he'd stand no chance. He's not strong enough to play the post against pretty much any 4 out West, which is why he's not a legit post option as a 4.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bottomline......Dirks only averaging 23pts & 7rebs against the Rockets. That's FAR from a field day. Amare's averagin 22pts and 13rebs which is good, but not what I'd label as "murdering" our frontline. That's a far stretch of ur imagination. I'd take that from both of those players ANY DAY OF THE WEEK. If Battier can hold Dirk and Amare to around 20pts, the job is done. Simple as that.
</div>The job is far from done if you're not winning, and they're not. And something you lack to realize is the efficiency at which they're scoring. Dirk hit 50% (26/51) of his shots while Stoudemire hit 53% (15/28) of his shots. They could score far more than what they are, but it's a team game, and they realize that. The fact is, that despite what you want to think, they're not really being stopped at all. Contained maybe, but that's only because they're simply not shooting the ball much. Dirk is only averaging about 17 shots per game against them and Amare is averagin 14. If they each bumped that up to 20 or so, they'd be pushing close 30ppg on you guys each time.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Odom hasn't developed a consistent low post game in his career yet. He played great in the playoffs, but often looks uninspired in the triangle. Bad example on ur behalf</div>Disagree here. He's actually been rather good in the post this year and dating back to last year. While he isn't playing great recently, lets see you come back from a bad knee sprain and play well. And to say he often looks uninspired shows you don't watch Laker games. Prior to his knee injury, he was playing the best basketball of his career and was being consistent at it for that matter. I don't see how an uninspired player can be playing his basketball of his career, it doesn't make sense

 

Ok... this thread went wayyy off topic.

That being said, there is no PT available for both Snyder and Wells to get meaningful minutes, so I think it will come down to matchups and whoever is currently playing well. Battier plays 35-40 mins, TMac plays 35-40 mins, Head plays 30 mins. That doesn't leave much PT for Wells/Snyder. And you know if the game is close, that Battier and TMac will both be playing 40 mins.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Rock4life Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
I can't believe ur actually tellin me this. After all the Rocket games on tv, ur tellin me that Tmac rarely runs point. I can't do anything but laugh You have to be completley blind if you don't see Tmac bringing the ball up court and intiating the offense all these games. This is why I can't debate you, you conjure up bogus statements like this one. For the record Foo, yes Tmac has spent plenty time at point and WILL in upcoming games. If I were you, I'd back away from that statement before it comes back to bite you lol.
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I think we are talking about different things. He may run the offense, but when Alston is sitting out Head IS the point guard. If by point you mean running the offense, I believe you. We have no other playmaker...but the point guard has always been either head or alston. Alston has always run point and even JVG said that Head is our primary backup point guard. Anyways, with your propsed lineup, Head would be running point anyways.