<div class="quote_poster">Quoting drm2dnk:</div><div class="quote_post">staying on topic...some ppl just make the word 'role model' to another level..but hey i don't think kobe is a role model ...but that's just me. I mean things get twisted..wrong twisted to a right or twisted with an excuse..remember that kobe makes the 1st move of wrong and then malone,shaq, rightfully retaliates ..not disrespectfully either. And why are you against everyone kobe disses or dislikes. Is it just a coincidence ppl? peace out i'll be in the other threads nuf said so long <font size="1"><font color="Red">Keep the unnecessary comments out of your posts, or don't post at all. -Brandon</font></font></div> good, its about time
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Karl Malone decides that he is "furious" just because Kobe said "we have to move on without him". Jesus Christ. If you didn't want to be with the Lakers, you could have just said it flat out instead of, like many other people have, using Kobe Bryant as a scapegoat. Then we have some people in this thread trying to justify why Malone responded the way he did. There is no justification to the way he acted. The Lakers have been patiently waiting for some time now and just because Kobe said a few (true) words, Malone takes great offense. I never had any respect for Malone when he was with the Jazz, I had no respect for Malone as a Laker and I have no respect for him now. He is a great player but I never really liked him. But that's not the reason why I think his actions are an extreme overreaction. If you want a free ring that you didn't earn, then go join the TWolves and Spurs. The Lakers aren't winning a ring this year and that's the truth. He's just using Kobe as a scapegoat for his problem since he doesn't want to seem "disloyal" to the Laker fans by just saying that the Lakers are not title contenders this year, but I'm sure that that's apperent to even the most brainwashed Laker fan. I don't wish you good luck, Karl. You can join any team you want to but you truly do not deserve a ring. Reggie Miller deserves a ring. And before the Malone supporters can ride on me and call me a "Kobe jockrider", this has nothing to do with Kobe Bryant. If Lamar Odom had said those comments, do you think he would have responded that way? No, it's about Karl obviously overreacting to simple comments and looking for a scapegoat. I really think Kobe shouldn't say anything to the media because every sentence that comes out of his mouth is scrutinzed, twisted and exploited in every way possible. I mean, can anyone be hated on more then him (aside from maybe Vince Carter)?
Everybody has the right to their opinions,and If Kobe said that about Karl Malone,so what.Kobe has the right to speak his mind. And if Malone doesn't want to come back and play for the Lakers because of what Kobe said,that's his choice. But doesn't this whole Kobe-Karl scenario seem to be fueled by the Media,so they can sell papers and get people to watch their news coverage,or is this just the way it is?? Either way it's making waves throughout the sports world.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> If you want a free ring that you didn't earn, then go join the TWolves and Spurs. The Lakers aren't winning a ring this year and that's the truth. He's just using Kobe as a scapegoat for his problem since he doesn't want to seem "disloyal" to the Laker fans by just saying that the Lakers are not title contenders this year, but I'm sure that that's apperent to even the most brainwashed Laker fan. </div> Karl Malone has no obligation to sign with the Lakers. Gimme a break. He signed for virtually nothing last year to help the team (and himself) and it didn't work out. And this notion that that being a role player with the Spurs and winning a championship is a "free ring" that he didn't "earn" is a bunch of bs. I suppose no bench player on a championship team actually deserves the ring they got? It was just a free ride for them all? Also, we haven't heard anything from Karl Malone yet. His agent says he's "furious." That could easily be an exxageration. Clearly, Kobe has expressed his opinion that he's not particularly concerned if Karl comes back or not. The implication was that Karl Malone wouldn't really help the team much anyways. If that's how Kobe feels, why on earth should Karl bust his ass trying to get back in shape to play for a team who's players don't really want him? I don't think its worth getting furious at Kobe over, but clearly that's a good reason to look to play elsewhere.
Implication. This is just another instance where Kobe is thrown into the fire. In fact, if I was Kobe, I'd come out and say everything DIRECTLY. If I didn't like Shaq, I'd say, "Shaq, you are garbage." If I didn't want Malone on the Lakers, I'd say, "Karl, we don't need you. Stay home." Let's not imply anything anymore. I'd rather Kobe be direct in every single statement, than every single statement be twisted into another.
Kobe shocked by Malone's reaction <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">?I meant nothing by it. It wasn?t directed toward him,? Bryant said after the Lakers? shootaround. ?I?d love to have him back here, everybody would. If he wants to come back and play, the door?s always open. ?This is the type of place he should enjoy playing. I?m happy to hear he?s 100 percent. And in no way what I said was directed toward him or a personal attack. If he?s felt some type of way about that, then I apologize.?</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">?I think he took what I said the wrong way,? Bryant said Wednesday. ?Maybe he didn?t hear it, maybe he ran off with what somebody else was saying. If I felt like (Malone) was a distraction, I would have said it. I didn?t say anything like that.?</div> Link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6673839/
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And this notion that that being a role player with the Spurs and winning a championship is a "free ring" that he didn't "earn" is a bunch of bs. I suppose no bench player on a championship team actually deserves the ring they got? It was just a free ride for them all? </div> If Karl goes to the Spurs and becomes a role player that makes them a better team, so I wouldn't say he would be getting a "free ring". But I would say it a pretty cheap way to win a championship. He did not play a role in the Spurs becoming a great team. Duncan, Manu, Parker, and other built the spurs into an elite team. Now Karl wants to come in now that they are great so he can get a ring the same way he thought he would get one with LA last year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> ?I meant nothing by it. It wasn?t directed toward him,? Bryant said after the Lakers? shootaround. ?I?d love to have him back here, everybody would. If he wants to come back and play, the door?s always open. ?This is the type of place he should enjoy playing. I?m happy to hear he?s 100 percent. And in no way what I said was directed toward him or a personal attack. If he?s felt some type of way about that, then I apologize.? ?I think he took what I said the wrong way,? Bryant said Wednesday. ?Maybe he didn?t hear it, maybe he ran off with what somebody else was saying. If I felt like (Malone) was a distraction, I would have said it. I didn?t say anything like that.? </div> Excellent response by Kobe. I can't wait to hear Malone's agent's response. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Karl Malone has no obligation to sign with the Lakers. Gimme a break. He signed for virtually nothing last year to help the team (and himself) and it didn't work out. </div> The issue is not about obligation. It's about making the players on the team all antsy about anticipating his return, which may never happen or may happen sooner then thought. Kobe was just pointing out that the situation was distracting the other players because they are indeed anticipating his return. If Malone wants a championship, the Lakers are not really the right choice but if he wants to stay true to the words he previously spoke, then he will sign with the Lakers. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And this notion that that being a role player with the Spurs and winning a championship is a "free ring" that he didn't "earn" is a bunch of bs. I suppose no bench player on a championship team actually deserves the ring they got? It was just a free ride for them all? </div> I never said being a role player does not transcend to no contribution. If Malone is jumping ships, it would make it seem like he's being disloyal to every team he jumps ships from. He said he would play for the Lakers but then to jump ship to the Spurs or the Twolves because of some not-so-offensive comments by Kobe just seems like a scapegoat to his real reasons for not wanting to play for the Lakers because he knows he won't really win a ring with them. I'm not saying Malone won't contribute to the Spurs or any other team he decides to go to. It just seems like if he's jumping ships and picking the most favourite teams to win the championship every year that he's a free agent, is it really earning a championship? His reasons for wanting to be in SanAn is justified because of only one thing: he is aging and wants to retire with a championship. So if it's all about a championship then stop giving the Lakers promises of a return and just join the Spurs, because they are clearly the favourites this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If that's how Kobe feels, why on earth should Karl bust his ass trying to get back in shape to play for a team who's players don't really want him? </div> Clearly, Karl misintrepreted Kobe's comments.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> If Malone wants a championship, the Lakers are not really the right choice but if he wants to stay true to the words he previously spoke, then he will sign with the Lakers.</div> He put his foot in his mouth when he said he'd only come back and play with the Lakers, in my opinion. I certainly don't blame him for changing his mind. At this point in his career, the only thing he cares about is the change to compete and win a championship. He's done everything except win a championship. Why waste away whatever time he has left as a professional basketball player playing for a non-contender? It doesn't make any sense. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said being a role player does not transcend to no contribution. If Malone is jumping ships, it would make it seem like he's being disloyal to every team he jumps ships from. He said he would play for the Lakers but then to jump ship to the Spurs or the Twolves because of some not-so-offensive comments by Kobe just seems like a scapegoat to his real reasons for not wanting to play for the Lakers because he knows he won't really win a ring with them.</div> Well, I do think that ultimately is the reason he doesn't want to play for the Lakers. But, I wonder, how is it a question of loyalty when Malone is a free agent? And it would be quite hypocritical for Kobe Bryant or the Lakers organization as a whole to talk about disloyalty, given recent events. Kobe and the Lakers weren't particularly loyal to Shaq and Phil Jackson, who were as responsible as anyone for the 3 championships. The Lakers weren't being loyal to Gary Payton when they traded him away to Boston. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not saying Malone won't contribute to the Spurs or any other team he decides to go to. It just seems like if he's jumping ships and picking the most favourite teams to win the championship every year that he's a free agent, is it really earning a championship? His reasons for wanting to be in SanAn is justified because of only one thing: he is aging and wants to retire with a championship.</div> Let's see, how many times did he resign with the Jazz when they weren't the favorite to win a championship? The guy is 40+ years old, has never won a championship, and he's played more games with a single organization than any other player except John Stockton. He barely ever missed a game while with the Jazz. And you seriously want to dog on him for "jumping ships" and being disloyal? That's ludicrous. People want to compare Karl Malone to Magic Johnson or Larry Bird when bringing up how he "jumps ships." Well, those guys won championships within their first 2 years in the league, and were on championship contenders virtually every year in their career. Clearly, the incentive to "jump ship" wasn't nearly as pronounced with them, so its an unfair comparison to make. And besides, Magic got his coach fired, and you never heard Karl Malone ever say a negative comment about his coach (a rarity these days). Who's the disloyal one?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bdubb:</div><div class="quote_post">If Karl goes to the Spurs and becomes a role player that makes them a better team, so I wouldn't say he would be getting a "free ring". But I would say it a pretty cheap way to win a championship. He did not play a role in the Spurs becoming a great team. Duncan, Manu, Parker, and other built the spurs into an elite team. Now Karl wants to come in now that they are great so he can get a ring the same way he thought he would get one with LA last year.</div> Yeah, but it's not like Karl Malone would take the same credit for the championship as those other guys. He plays a role, and helps them win it. At this stage in his career, that alone would be something he's never accomplished and reason for him to want to pursue that. It's not like he has another 5 years to build a team ground up into an elite team. I'll never understand why some of you guys are so bitter about it. Give the guy a freaking break. He's spent like 3 times the energy Kobe has trying to win a championship throughout his career. Probably no one in league history has logged as many hours in the gym training himself as Karl Malone. Doesn't he deserve the chance to finally be part of a winning, championship team, in whatever small way he can? Sheesh.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, but it's not like Karl Malone would take the same credit for the championship as those other guys. He plays a role, and helps them win it. At this stage in his career, that alone would be something he's never accomplished and reason for him to want to pursue that. It's not like he has another 5 years to build a team ground up into an elite team. I'll never understand why some of you guys are so bitter about it. Give the guy a freaking break. He's spent like 3 times the energy Kobe has trying to win a championship throughout his career. Probably no one in league history has logged as many hours in the gym training himself as Karl Malone. Doesn't he deserve the chance to finally be part of a winning, championship team, in whatever small way he can? Sheesh.</div> I stated my opinion about the way he's going about winning a ring, and that makes me bitter?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why waste away whatever time he has left as a professional basketball player playing for a non-contender? It doesn't make any sense. </div> That's what I'm saying. If he wants to win a championship, then why even choose to come to a rebuilding Lakers with a brand new coach and brand new players? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> But, I wonder, how is it a question of loyalty when Malone is a free agent? </div> He pledged to join the Lakers (after the 2003-2004 season). No one forced him to do it, he chose to say he'd most likely play for the Lakers. The whole issue is that the Lakers players are/were really anticipating his return and just because Kobe said these little comments, suddenly his interest has declined? That's where loyalty comes into play...why change your mind now (though he has no obligation not to) when all this time you were screaming "I'm going to join the Lakers most likely" That's what kobe was speaking about, that Malone's return was distracting the players, but to a positive extent. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kobe and the Lakers weren't particularly loyal to Shaq and Phil Jackson </div> Kobe does not trade players or fire coaches, no matter what people believe. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> And you seriously want to dog on him for "jumping ships" and being disloyal? That's ludicrous. </div> I'm dogging on him because he's taking these comments too seriously. I'm also dogging him because first he leaves the Jazz in search of a championship, doesn't get it, so he joins the most favourable team in the Lakers, doesn't get it here either, so now he will jump ship again to the most favourable team in the Spurs. It's not bizarre but as someone said, it's the cheap way to win championships. Regardless, I agree that he is old and hungry for a championship but I won't sympathasize with him just yet. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> People want to compare Karl Malone to Magic Johnson or Larry Bird when bringing up how he "jumps ships. </div> I know you're not directing this to me in general, but just to clear it up, I never mentioned the words "Magic" or "Larry" in any of my previous posts. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'll never understand why some of you guys are so bitter about it. Give the guy a freaking break. </div> I'm not bitter about it. I look at Reggie Miller and then I look at Karl Malone. Karl Malone has had THREE chances at a ring, Reggie has had one. Reggie has stuck by his team, Karl has skipped town and joined the most favourable team and if he does decide to join the Spurs, it just validates my point. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Doesn't he deserve the chance to finally be part of a winning, championship team, in whatever small way he can? </div> Well, let's see. He's won plenty of times before in the playoffs. He had chances to win the ring three times. So technically, he's already got the chances he deserved and it didn't pan out. If he wants one final push for the ring then the easiest way out would be to pick the most favourable team (Spurs), not the Lakers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post"> He pledged to join the Lakers (after the 2003-2004 season). No one forced him to do it, he chose to say he'd most likely play for the Lakers. The whole issue is that the Lakers players are/were really anticipating his return and just because Kobe said these little comments, suddenly his interest has declined? That's where loyalty comes into play...why change your mind now (though he has no obligation not to) when all this time you were screaming "I'm going to join the Lakers most likely" That's what kobe was speaking about, that Malone's return was distracting the players, but to a positive extent.</div> We both agree that Malone shouldn't have said he's leaning towards playing for the Lakers. It's also possible that words were said in private which made Karl think that Kobe didn't really want him there. Didn't the agent say something like that? Anyways, at this point in his career, when he's at the cusp of retirement, it makes zero sense to play out your career in LA. Utah, I could understand (Kevin Willis is currently doing that). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe does not trade players or fire coaches, no matter what people believe.</div> Reportedly, Kobe made it fairly clear that he'd be less inclined to come back if Shaq and Phil came back too. That isn't being "loyal," is it? I don't have a problem with what Kobe did. But if people want to accuse Karl Malone of being disloyal for leaving Utah, and they wouldn't say the same about Kobe for his little free agent game over the offseason, I think that's somewhat hypocritical. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm dogging on him because he's taking these comments too seriously. I'm also dogging him because first he leaves the Jazz in search of a championship, doesn't get it, so he joins the most favourable team in the Lakers, doesn't get it here either, so now he will jump ship again to the most favourable team in the Spurs. It's not bizarre but as someone said, it's the cheap way to win championships. Regardless, I agree that he is old and hungry for a championship but I won't sympathasize with him just yet.</div> Saying its the "cheap way to win championships" makes it seem like he's cheating or something. Like he should be ashamed of himself for doing it. That I don't buy at all. He's clearly not looking for the same glory Michael Jordan or Shaquille O'neal had when they led their teams to championships. That's not what he's seeking by signing with these teams. He wants to be a role player on a championship team, and there's absolutely no shame in that. Did Ron Harper win a championship the cheap way when he played for the Bulls and the Lakers? No one was bashing him for doing that. And if he had taken a huge pay cut to play for them, people would have been praising him for being selfless and only caring about winning. But since Karl Malone has accomplished so much for so long in Utah, he gets criticized for wanting to do the same thing. Is there any sense in that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I know you're not directing this to me in general, but just to clear it up, I never mentioned the words "Magic" or "Larry" in any of my previous posts.</div> I know. Wasn't directed towards you. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not bitter about it. I look at Reggie Miller and then I look at Karl Malone. Karl Malone has had THREE chances at a ring, Reggie has had one. Reggie has stuck by his team, Karl has skipped town and joined the most favourable team and if he does decide to join the Spurs, it just validates my point.</div> First of all, Karl has "stuck by his team" (the Utah Jazz) for more games and more seasons that Reggie Miller. He played for that organization for 18 years, and 1434 games. Reggie is just entering is 18th season, and won't have even played as many games as Karl did for the Jazz if he plays the rest of the season. Secondly, the Indiana Pacers have been contenders for the past two seasons. And, their future looks bright. If Utah Jazz were capable of winning 55-65 games a year and contending for a championship, do you honestly thinking Karl would have left? Why is that when free agents demand their old team give them a hefty contract, no one criticizes them for being disloyal? Would Kobe have accepted merely a 20 million dollar contract to stay in LA? Hell no. He expects a certain salary, or he wouldn't have resigned with the Lakers. And yet no one will criticize him for that -- it's expected for free agents to want to maximize their contract. But Karl Malone's standard for signing with a team isn't money, it's championship potential. And because he's more interested in winning a championship than getting paid zillions of dollars, and that's the primary factor for which team he signs with, people criticize him for being disloyal. Where's the logic in that? Don't we generally commend players for caring more about winning than money? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, let's see. He's won plenty of times before in the playoffs. He had chances to win the ring three times. So technically, he's already got the chances he deserved and it didn't pan out. If he wants one final push for the ring then the easiest way out would be to pick the most favourable team (Spurs), not the Lakers.</div> Huh? Let me get this straight. Because he was so close for much longer than Reggie Miller, he DOESN'T deserve a legitimate chance to get a ring as much as Reggie? By that logic, Carmelo Anthony, more than Reggie Miller, has earned the right to sign with another team and pursue a championship because he hasn't had as many chances. You have it backwards.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bdubb:</div><div class="quote_post">I stated my opinion about the way he's going about winning a ring, and that makes me bitter?</div> He doesn't want to sign with your team because he wants a chance to win a ring, and you respond by calling it a "cheap way to win a ring." Do you mean to say that Ron Harper won his rings the "cheap way" because he was merely a role player on all those Bulls and Lakers teams? It seems to me that you just want to denigrate whatever Malone achieves with the Spurs, because he chose that team over yours. Yes, that makes you bitter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">It seems to me that you just want to denigrate whatever Malone achieves with the Spurs, because he chose that team over yours. Yes, that makes you bitter.</div> Look man, If Malone never put on a Laker jersey in his whole career I would still feel the same way about the cheap way that he is going about getting a ring. The Lakers have nothing to do with the way I feel about this situation and there is nothing in my previous posts that indicates such.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bdubb:</div><div class="quote_post">Look man, If Malone never put on a Laker jersey in his whole career I would still feel the same way about the cheap way that he is going about getting a ring. The Lakers have nothing to do with the way I feel about this situation and there is nothing in my previous posts that indicates such.</div> Do you think Ron Harper won rings with the Lakers "the cheap way?" Or any of those role players which signed with the Lakers during their championship run? Or how about Bob McAdoo back in the 80s. Are you willing to criticize him for signing with the Lakers just to win a championship? If so, then I'll rescind my comments about you just being bitter.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you think Ron Harper won rings with the Lakers "the cheap way?" Or any of those role players which signed with the Lakers during their championship run? If so, then I'll rescind my comments about you just being bitter.</div> When Ron Harper signed with the Lakers in '99, that particular team wasn't proven champions. Shaq or Kobe hadn't won anything and Phils success was with Mike, Scottie, and the Bulls. What other players are you talking about?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bdubb:</div><div class="quote_post">When Ron Harper signed with the Lakers in '99, that particular team wasn't proven champions. Shaq or Kobe hadn't won anything and Phils success was with Mike, Scottie, and the Bulls. What other players are you talking about?</div> Bob McAdoo (amongst others) in the 80s. Any free agent signings by the Lakers after winning their first championship. Is it fair to criticize all of them for signing with a team just because they were proven champions with a good chance to win again? You think that's a valid criticism to make? Most players in the league care most about their contract, their playing time, and their individual stats and glory than winning a championship. That's why you don't have everyone rushing to sign with contenders. It has nothing to do with being "loyal" or trying to win a championship the fair way. Karl Malone is at a stage in his career when none of that other stuff really matters. Almost anyone else in his position at his age would do the same thing, if they were still capable of playing.
Not familiar with McAdoo, I started watching in '91. It's like this. If a free agent goes to a team a plays an important role in a teams success, he earned his ring. When the Rockets picked up Drexler, he was huge in them winning a second title. I don't think they would have won it without him. But then you got guys like John Salley who has like 4 or 5 rings. The rings with the Bulls and Lakers he played no role in those teams success. The same with Mitch Richmond in LA in '01. Like in football when my fellow East St. Louisian Bryan Cox won a ring with the Patrots. I didn't know he was on the team until the celebration.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting bdubb:</div><div class="quote_post">Not familiar with McAdoo, I started watching in '91. It's like this. If a free agent goes to a team a plays an important role in a teams success, he earned his ring. When the Rockets picked up Drexler, he was huge in them winning a second title. I don't think they would have won it without him. But then you got guys like John Salley who has like 4 or 5 rings. The rings with the Bulls and Lakers he played no role in those teams success. The same with Mitch Richmond in LA in '01. Like in football when my fellow East St. Louisian Bryan Cox won a ring with the Patrots. I didn't know he was on the team until the celebration.</div> Alright, but I guarantee that Karl Malone would do much more for the Spurs than John Salley and Mitch Richmond did for LA. He'd get significant minutes off the bench, and probably be in the main 8-man rotation.
