Keith Olbermann's New Special Comment

you mean traditional right, not natural. two parents raising a child is a traditional social construct, not a natural one. for most mammal species young are either raised by one parent or communally, and it appears primitive humans lived in communal units, not 2 parent families.

 

It was really only one sentence, but if you didn't understand what I meant I don't see how that could be the dumbest thing you have ever read in these forums? Sounds like more of a knee jerk reaction to something than a thought out response.





I guess you would need to define what you mean by socially harmful. You said a man having two wives is socially harmful. How does that harm society? Less chicks for losers? One wife beater turns into a serial wife beater through sheer numbers?

You said there was evidence that this was socially harmful, but that there isn't any evidence that gay marriage is harmful.

My question is what does harmful mean to you? I believe that MTV has harmed society by celebrating people with ideals that most people would frown upon.

Teens learned to wear their pants at their knees somewhere, girls these days wear clothes that strippers used to be ashamed of. They got the ideas for this somewhere, I feel that there is evidence that MTV (and others) glorify this shit.

More on topic, doesn't anyone just think that some things are just better? Being gay doesn't have to be wrong, but can't anyone admit that it just isn't ideal?

I saw a documentary once that showed a family of deaf people. One child was a good candidate for a cochlear implant (might have spelled that waaaaaaaaaay wrong) but the parents were really torn as to whether the child should have it.

They didn't want to make the kid think that being deaf is wrong, or something to be ashamed of. I understood their feelings, but couldn't see why they didn't realize that having hearing is just better.

NOTE...There may be other reasons the implant was bad for the deaf kid, but in the documentary that wasn't what they were worried about. It basically boiled down to being able to hear or not.

 

But up until last Tuesday, it was THE LAW for gays to be able to marry. The law was changed on them.

Perhaps all couples, male-female, male-male, and female-female should only be able to get civil unions, and then marriage would be a separate ceremony, in the church. That should please the Christians.

Christians altered the law from what it originally was. In the Roman empires, gays were allowed to marry up until the 4th century when....a Christian emperor made it illegal.

If we are going to go base don tradition, then marriage should include all couples, whether MF, MM, or FF.

 

Ok, realize that I ain't fer no gayz marriagaing...but listen.

I personally believe that a lot of people have wicked desires in their minds that they don't WANT to have.

You read about some dude in love with a horse and you think damn that is one sick MOTHERFUCKER. Then you think, wait a minute, there are billions of people in this world. What are the odds that dude is the only one?

(NO, I don't want no horse. I just wouldn't mind having like 10, maybe 200 wives)

So, just on a hunch I think that there are probably plenty of people who fight against gay marriage because they are afraid that once that hurdle is passed maybe their own wicked desires might be more accepted.

I think this is what drives the slippery slope analogy.

If it sounds like I haven't thought this through very well, it might be TRUE BITCHES.

 

Polygamy has such negative feedback because really the only polygamy information that you really hear about is the stereotyping head-lining "POLYGAMY SECT LEADER WHO FORCED MULTIPLE THIRTEEN YEAR OLD GIRLS TO MARRY HIM NOW IN CUSTODY AND WAITING TO BE ARRAIGNED".

I've no problem really with polygamy as long as all entering parties are adults and consenting; although, I would prefer that they have a detailed family line they keep track of and pass on to their children so we could avoid half brother/half sister relationships.

Someone else brought up brother/sister and mother/son etc relationships. The issue with brother/sister relationships that is pregnancy resulting from these unions have a 17% birth defect rate, which is up from the I believe 3% of non-sibling unions. First cousin relationships that result in pregnancy and birth have a tiny, tiny above average birth defect rating with 4-7%. In 19 states first cousins are allowed to get married, and only 1 requires genetic screening.

This is your odd information for the day.

 

i was referring mainly to immediate family sexual relationships which can have psychological, as well as potentially genetic consequences, and can certainly lead to parental abuse if they are legalized. i don't think polygamy is necessarily harmful for people that believe in it or mutually genuinely consent to it as adults. the trouble it also can potentially be abused when children are forced or brainwashed into it for the sake of religious belief, although that's a separate issue.

anyway the parallel between incest and gay marriage between 2 consenting adults was stupid.

so do you believe MTV is actually socially harmful in a secular sense, or is it just harmful because it goes against traditional religious values? huge difference.

you just compared being gay to being physically handicapped. come on.

 

What is wrong with that? Deaf people don't choose to be gay and gay people don't choose to be deaf. I suspect that neither of them would choose to be either one of them. In another thread, Maris tells me that they use the word challenged, doesn't mean it is bad, just that there are obstacles. Being gay will probably always be a challenge somehow.

If you don't believe that, what about those people they say are body dysmorphic? (or something like that)

These poor people feel like they are in the wrong body, that has to suck. I don't know what I would do if I turned into a chick right now other than become a lesbian. And a stripper if I was hot.

I wouldn't choose to be overweight (but I am)
I wouldn't choose to have a bad temper (but I have one) ...I work on it constantly though.



MTV is harmful if you don't want your children to be brain dead idiots. Watch that shit if you don't understand.



I don't give a fuck about traditional religion, however I believe it does give us a way of keeping people from doing everything they want without fear of the damage it could cause. If everyone just did what they wanted to do, our society would collapse. Or it would have collapsed already, instead of a few years down the road.

 

I think you explained your position just fine, and I find it helpful to know where you are coming from. It seems that both you and Furball are bringing up the same issue. Do gay people choose to love people of the same sex only? My feeling is that they aren't any more than straight people choose to love people of the opposite sex only, but let's see if we can get a little data on the subject. Crandc, have you ever, at any time in your life, felt sexually attracted to/in love with men?

 

Natural, meaning it took, both, a mother and father to conceive said child.

 

that boggles my mind. i have never heard a gay person say they felt it was a handicap, and if they did think so it would only be because of the pressure of ignorant religious prejudice to conform.

your opinion. i grew up watching MTV and the music exposed me to a lot of culture that my life would have otherwise lacked. it didn't make me a sex-crazed socially harmful deviant. and again i don't see anyone legislating to ban MTV, so not sure what your point is in the first place.

so gay marriage would help speed the collapse of society and traditional religious values are the only reason it hasn't collapsed already? you should study western europe.

 

no that's not what you meant obviously. you're meant "natural right" to be raised by mother & father. it would be pretty hard for someone to be conceived without an egg and sperm.

 

Actually, no, it has not. Read your bible. How many wives did Soloman have? In Islamic law, to this day, a man may have four wives.

How do you say we should have all the rights you have, then in the next sentence say we should not? Either we have equal rights or we don't.

BTW, a LOT of people say gays cannot love and have relationships. They are the ones who put prop H8 on the ballot.

And BTW, a lot of people are black and gay. Not every gay person is a middle class white man, you know.

The issue is not what anyone personally believe. My observant Jewish family believes that G-d prohibits eating a pepperoni pizza. It is what you put into law for the rest of the world. In a secular society, your religious beliefs should not rule my life. Any more than I would prevent you from going to Pizza Hut.

 

I'll agree to answer that question if every self identified heterosexual on this board answers, publicly, one question.

Have you ever felt sexually attracted to, or in love with, someone of your own sex?

 

No, if you are not a liberal you are clearly an enemy of the state and should have no rights. Least of all the right to vote.

Like you, I've always wondered why liberals have that mentality.

 

It's exactly what meant.

Meaning, if it took a man and woman to conceive the child, then, IMO, that child has (er, should have) the natural "right" to be raised by them, as well.

If it doesn't turn out that way.......it's certainly not in that child's control.

 

BLAZER PROPHET and I have had our moments......................then he farts and the feeling passes (no pun intended).

 

wtf??????

Leave me out of your little queer conversations.

 

Oh, geeze, NOW you say that!