I wouldn't be happy if my high school team beat the Raptors either. At least I admit they suck and not cry my ass off.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha, no disrespect, but notice that the two Knicks fans are the only ones who don't agree with Kidd's comments. My view on it, regardless or WHOEVER it was, I'd agree. If you have a (considerbly) better record then the other team, then you deserve to talk. If the Spurs came in and said "Why should we be excited about the Nets? They're just a team that's contending for a playoff spot," I would completely agree with it, because its real.</div> And the Knick haters are the one bashing them. The Nets don't have a considerably better record than the Knicks. You got it all wrong and you're mixing a power house team with the Nets/Knicks. The Nets aren't a whole lot better than the Knicks and mixing them up with the Spurs is ridiculous. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I guarantee you had it been a bizzaro world and the Nets were headed for the lottery and the Knicks were contending for a playoff sport and Marbury had said it, you same fans would not have disapproved of it.</div> Well your guaruntee is wrong. I would have spoke my true feelings on it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You Knicks fans need to realize that your team does SUCK and stop trying to defending them (though you are doing a very good job) because they do suck. Yes, my favourite team are the Raptors and Lakers. Yes, they do suck. I know what to defend and what not to. I'm not gonna beat around the bush. If my team sucks, I'd admit it. What do you want me to do? Bring up the past and say they did this and this "not too long ago?"</div> Who the hell in this forum didn't say anything about the Knicks being bad? You barely ever come up to this forum and yet you're telling us what we do and don't realize? Do some research before you come up in here and tell us what we do an don't realize! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We all know the Knicks suck and the Nets are the ones who have been on a streak of late, not the Knicks, so who has bragging rights? Once again, I'm not just defending Kidd's comments, I would defend anybody who's team has a (considerably) better record then the latter team saying the same things. Whereas if Marbury, with the Knicks current record had said the same thing about the Nets, I would not have defended him cause he has no right to say that.</div> You're acting as if the Nets are a power house team when they have a record below .500 themselves. In all the games we played them it was close it's not like they killed us. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I know you're a Knicks fan and everything but Marbury saying that he was the best point guard in the league was flat out stupid. I'd pick Steve Nash or Kidd over him any day, and so would many others, including you (as in general Knicks fans who defend his stament) I'm guessing. </div> How was it stupid. He goes out with confidence. Many players said that when they go out and play, they feel as if they have the attitude that they are the best. If you play basketball, you would know confidence is a key factor in what you do on the court. Reggie Miller said when he goes out and plays he feels as if he's better than Jordan. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Really? Lol that's news to me. Please name some instances where he was cowardly and dirty, and please dont bring up off court issues, that has nothing to do with this. </div> Well I think many wouldn't consider when he was messing with Frank Williams and what he did to JYD "clean" (as in general you won't think so.) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess I shouldn't expect much out of Marbury either, since he hasn't WON anything in his life. Jason Kidd hasn't won a ring but atleast he's lead his team to the Finals, TWICE. What exactly has Marbury done??? </div> Okay, this is the same year in which Van Horn and the rest of them were all plagued with injuries. Also Jefferson was acquired in the same year. Too bad Marbury isn't talented enough to lead an injury plagued team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This Kidd vs. Marbury thing baffles me, it's not even close and I'm not even bias but I see the big picture but yet you don't. If the two swapped teams right now, do you really think the Knicks would have had the record they had right now? Kidd makes the people around him better, wheras Marbury looks to get his own while looking for ohters as well, but you need to realize Kidd is more of a PASS first PG and Marbury is a SHOOT first PG, which is what seperates the scoring-point guards, from the REAL PG's.</div> Kidd isn't talented offensively and isn't in the same league as Marbury in scoring. If he had the muscle athleticism and explosiveness as Marbury who knows what he would do. The thing is the team needs Marbury's scoring and yet he still needs to dish as well. That's tough to manage. If Kidd was on the Knicks, we'd probably have the same record. The Knicks mental lapse in January set the tone for them in the rest of the season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, the Knicks lineup is full of overpaid "potential stars" as well and the Nets, despite having a lack of "household names" are STILL doing better then your lowly Knicks. You should be ashamed of your team and its management for producing so little with such high expectations rather then lash your bitterness towards another team that's actually in the hunt for something rather then a lottery pick. Yes, there's a high possiblity that the Nets wil get swept in the first round but hey, atleast they can say they made the playoffs. After all, isn't that what you play for? By the way, Knicks don't have anything on the Nets NEXT year either when Kidd, Caretr and RJ are all back so I'm sure your bitterness will be everlast.</div> Please do us all a favor and shut the hell up! No one here is saying the Knicks are a good team. Where do you see that??? We all know what the Knicks are we are just saying we don't agree what Kidd said. Sure it's true, but it's not like the Nets are anything special because the way it looks now, they're not even in the playoffs. Once the Knicks have their lottery pick and we do something with our expiring contracts and we have a healthy Allan Houston, than we have something. No matter how good or bad the Nets are, they'll never be as popular as the Knicks. Please we don't need you to give assesments about our team. You have your own two teams that suck. Why don't you worry about them. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think people are really blowing this out of proportion. Kidd was just fulfilling his media obligation and answering a question posed to him by THE NEW YORK MEDIA. What do you want him to do? Lie about getting up and circling the Knicks on his calendar every year? Thats like him saying he gets up to play the Bobcats when he sees them on the calendar. That would be celebrating mediocrity at it's finest. Basic fact is when he is asked a question he must answer that question with a statement. He can't just "shut up" or say nothing. He basically just told the truth and judging by the responses in this thread, the truth hurts.</div> They asked Kidd something like: "Do you look forward to playing the Knicks?" Why couldn't he say no, not really or something of that nature. They asked Marbury the same thing like do you think I'm the best PG in the league. When he stated his opinion, everyone started knocking him. It doesn't matter they didn't ask him "Do you think that the Knicks are a good team?" Those actions are like kicking a dog when it's down and they were uncalled for. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "Air Jordan":</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't be happy if my high school team beat the Raptors either. At least I admit they suck and not cry my ass off.</div> Who's doing that? Everyone here has talked about how bad the Knicks are a number of times. If you actually took the time out to read a thing or two in this forum, you'd know that. Everyone feels Kidd doesn't have to go around dictating which teams are good and bad especially if the Nets are far from elite. Why doesn't Kidd talk about the other teams that are bad?
Funny when marbury says hes the best point guard it wasnt a big deal, even though he isnt. but kidd says one thing and hes the enemy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny when marbury says hes the best point guard it wasnt a big deal, even though he isnt. but kidd says one thing and hes the enemy.</div> Not a big deal??? Are you joking? Hell yeah it was a big deal! By you asking that I question whether you live in the NY area. Marbury didn't give out cheap shots. Marbury since he was a child has always been confident and when the media asked him "Are you rhe best PG in the league" he said it out of nature.
Hey I guess the New York fans are just like thier media...haha <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You got it all wrong and you're mixing a power house team with the Nets/Knicks. The Nets aren't a whole lot better than the Knicks and mixing them up with the Spurs is ridiculous. </div> I was merely using the Spurs as an example. You could replace the Spurs with any team. If Ben Gordon had said that about the Nets I wouldn't have said anything because he has a right to say it but he wouldn't in the first place cause it is clear the Nets are NOT a bad team, their turn-around since aquirring Vince shows it. The Nets, if they had Vince and Kidd and RJ from the starting of the season, would have a "considerably" better record then the Knicks and I'm sure you don't disagree. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Who the hell in this forum didn't say anything about the Knicks being bad? You barely ever come up to this forum and yet you're telling us what we do and don't realize? Do some research before you come up in here and tell us what we do an don't realize! </div> Calm down there. You DONT seem to realize still that Kidd saying the Knicks are bad is NOT that big of a deal like you're making out to be because as you said, YOU realize that the Knicks are bad and so does he. So he's merely stating the truth which everyone agrees with. What's the problem? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You're acting as if the Nets are a power house team when they have a record below .500 themselves. In all the games we played them it was close it's not like they killed us. </div> A loss is a loss, no matter what kind of loss it is. And 2 nights ago, they basically blew you guys out. Kudos on the little comeback but it still wasn't enough. We won by double digits, thats convincing enough. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> How was it stupid. He goes out with confidence. Many players said that when they go out and play, they feel as if they have the attitude that they are the best. </div> I see, so I could make a point that Kidd said his comments with "confidence" as well, and he goes out with "confidence", does he not? Does "confidence" justify his words do you? Your point is not valid, every NBA player is confident. Hell, even Milt Palacio is confident, but he knows better then saying he's the best at a certain position before proving s--t. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well I think many wouldn't consider when he was messing with Frank Williams and what he did to JYD "clean" (as in general you won't think so.) </div> My comment was directed towards Tribute saying that he's been known as a dirty player his whole career. If Jason Kidd is dirty to you, I wonder what Bruce Bowen is. You are only bringing up specific situations related with Jason Kidd and your Knicks. Tribute says he's been that way his whole career, but you don't have the facts to prove it. JYD did a hard foul on Vince and stood above him as well, does that make him "a dirty player his whole career?" You're bringing up TWO incidents he's done (against the Knicks no less) and using those two points to defend that hes been "dirty his whole career". That doesn't make sense and doesn't prove anything. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kidd isn't talented offensively and isn't in the same league as Marbury in scoring. If he had the muscle athleticism and explosiveness as Marbury who knows what he would do. The thing is the team needs Marbury's scoring and yet he still needs to dish as well. That's tough to manage. If Kidd was on the Knicks, we'd probably have the same record. The Knicks mental lapse in January set the tone for them in the rest of the season. </div> Are you joking me? Do you know how much offensive threats the Knicks CAN have if they play upto thier potential? You got Tim Thomas, Jamal Crawford and you have some excellent forwards like Trevor and Sweetney. You think If Kidd came and pushed an uptempo set-up and kept feeding it to these players, they wouldn't score? Kidd helps everyone gets touches wheras Marbury looks to get his own before he looks to pass. Yes, as you can see, the Nets, comapred to the Knicks have WAYYYYYYY better proven offensive threats such as Travis Best <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Okay, this is the same year in which Van Horn and the rest of them were all plagued with injuries. Also Jefferson was acquired in the same year. Too bad Marbury isn't talented enough to lead an injury plagued team. </div> I was talking about him not having proven himself his whole career. Jason Kidd turned around the Nets who were a loterry team with Marbury (yes yes, I'm aware of the injuries) and lead them to the finals in 2002 and 2003. Marbury struggled in the East with Nets, he struggled in the West with the Suns and he's struggling in the East again with the Knicks. His whole career, he hasn't gotten far. I don't even think he's been past the first round, which further justifies my point. He's not a proven winner. Jason Kidd is. (No rings I know, but BOTH of them don't have it so in terms of playoff sucess, Kidd is way out in front.) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Please do us all a favor and shut the hell up! </div> Great point. Sounds like my words are getting to your head <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> We all know what the Knicks are we are just saying we don't agree what Kidd said. Sure it's true, </div> Now you're contradicting yourself...you said you KNOW what the Knicks are (which is that they are BAD), but you said you don't agree with what Jason Kidd said (which was that they were BAD). So you agree that they are bad yourself, but when Jason Kidd says they are bad you don't agree? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Once the Knicks have their lottery pick and we do something with our expiring contracts and we have a healthy Allan Houston, than we have something. </div> LOL. That's quite a plan there. With a bonehead GM like Isiah, I'm sure that will happen. What you just said astonishes me because EVERY team in the league could make a "plan" like that. Oh, let's see, sure I know the Raptors are bad, but once they get thier lottery pick, trade Jalen Rose, get rid of Mo Pete, Lamond Murray and Milt Palacio, then we have something. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> No matter how good or bad the Nets are, they'll never be as popular as the Knicks </div> A sign that you're giving up on this debate. This has nothing to do with popularity, we're talking about Jason Kidd saying the Knicks are bad, what does the Knicks being popular have to do with it? That's like me saying "No matter how good or bad the Sonics are, they'll never be as popular as the Lakers". So what if they're popular? They're losing, the whole point of an NBA season is to win games. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Please we don't need you to give assesments about our team. You have your own two teams that suck. Why don't you worry about them. </div> O...kay. My "assesment" on your team was basically what everyone knows, from Raptor fans to Heat fans to even Knicks fans: Knicks suck. You say you dont need me giving assesments about the Knicks then you come and say that the Nets suck, which is quite funny, because they're the ones who have a legit chance of making the playoffs and your Knicks have a guarantee of being a loterry team. Yes, the Nets must really suck. For the record, this is a basketball board, I can and will be curious about every team, not just a certain one. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Why doesn't Kidd talk about the other teams that are bad? </div> He probably doesn't like the Knicks and Marbury.
This debate lost all credablity when MJ18 said Kidd isnt talented offensively, you think the only way that you prove you offensive talents is by scoring the basketball. What about your ablity to run an offense, which is the offensive skill most needed by a point guard, what about your ablity to make other poeoples offensive skills better, that isnt having offesive talent? please.... And as far as Kidd's indivual talents on offense no he isnt the quickest guy at getting to the hoop like say a Stephon Marbury, but his ablity to position his body using his size against other point guards whether it be in the post area or around the free throw line area, Kidd still knows how to get his shot off against anyone. And also how to draw defenders into picking up fouls. Also last time I checked he was one of the most talented open court players in the league at getting to the hoop as well as finshing from the PG slot. And No he isnt a great outside shooter. But he is solid from the mid range area. And has a nack for making the long distance ones when they really court. So for me to see someone say Kidd isnt talented offensively blows my mind.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey I guess the New York fans are just like thier media...haha</div> I bet you wish you were a New Yorker...haha. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I was merely using the Spurs as an example. You could replace the Spurs with any team. If Ben Gordon had said that about the Nets I wouldn't have said anything because he has a right to say it but he wouldn't in the first place cause it is clear the Nets are NOT a bad team, they're turn-around since aquirring Vince shows. The Nets, if they had Vince and Kidd and RJ from the starting of the season, would have a "considerably" better record then the Knicks and I'm sure you don't disagree. </div> The Spurs one was a bad example because you're mixing up a championship caliber team with...the Nets. Gordon is in the playoffs, Kidd isn't. Big difference. Now you're making assumptions. How do you know how the Nets would turn out? People thought the Jazz were "considerably better" people thought the same thing about the Blazers. They also said that about the Timberwolves and Nuggets prior to them getting George Karl. Even if the Nets were a considerably better team with a healthy RJ, the Knicks have the potential to be like that as well with a healthy Houston. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Calm down there. You DONT seem to realize still that Kidd saying the Knicks are bad is NOT that big of a deal like you're making out to be because as you said, you REALIZE that the Knicks are bad and so does he. So he's merely stating the truth which everyone agrees with. What's the problem? </div> Some things don't need to be mentioned. If Marbury was asked "How is your family?" And he says they're good. I make sure I don't beat them like Kidd did to his wife. Isn't that true? Does it need to be mentioned? I think Kidd's attempt did not have good intentions. If that were the case, why doesn't he say that about every other bad team? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A loss is a loss, no matter what kind of loss it is. And 2 nights ago, they basically blew you guys out. Kudos on the little comeback but it still wasn't enough. We won by double digits, thats convincing enough. </div> They didn't get blown out! They were down by 27 and cut it to 6 in the 4th. That's not getting blown out at all. You guys didn't win by 20, I beleive you won by 12. If you saw the game, you would know it was closer than what the boxscore read. It went down to the final minutes. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I see, so I could make a point that Kidd said his comments with "confidence" as well, and he goes out with "confidence", does he not? Does "confidence" justify his words do you? Your point is not valid, every NBA player is confident. Hell, even Milt Palacio is confident, but he knows better then saying he's the best at a certain position before proving s--t.</div> Where does confidence come in? Saying a team is bad? Marbury was talking about himself, he wasn't talking about anyone else. At the time, it could be argued that Marbury was the best. Nash was doing his thing, but Marbury was still very much in contention. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My comment was directed to Tribute saying that he's been known as a dirty player his whole career. If Jason Kidd is dirty to you, I wonder what Bruce Bowen is. You are only bringing up specific situation related with Jason Kidd and your Knicks. Tribute says he's been that way his whole career, but you don't have the facts to prove it. JYD did a hard foul on Vince and stood above him as well, does that make him "a dirty player his whole career?"</div> You're bringing up TWO incidents he's done (against the Knicks no less) and using those two points to defend that hes been "dirty his whole career". That doesn't make sense and doesn't prove anything. [/QUOTE] JYD put his hand over him to try and help him up. Vince Carter attempted to charge at him. You wanted some instances I gave you some. You can also add some off court stuff too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you joking me? Do you know how much offensive threats the Knicks CAN have if they play upto thier potential? You got Tim Thomas, Jamal Crawford and you have some excellent forwards like Trevor and Sweetney. You think If Kidd came and pushed an uptempo set-up and kept feeding it to these players, they wouldn't score? Kidd helps everyone gets touches wheras Marbury looks to get his own before he looks to pass. Yes, as you can see, the Nets, comapred to the Knicks have WAYYYYYYY better proven offensive threats such as Travis Best </div> I was speaking as in scoring offensively. Kidd can not penetrate and finish like Marbury. He doesn't have the offensive tools to his arsenal like Marbury. TT will never reach his potential and Sweetney isn't a fastbreak type player. Marbury looks to score firs because usually the Knicks need his scoring to get back in games such aslast meeting and other games. I'm saying if Kidd had the offensive tools as Marbury, you don't know whether he would look to pass or score first. That Travis Best thing was a joke right? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I was talking about him not having proven himself his whole career. Jason Kidd turned around the Nets who were a loterry team with Marbury (yes yes, I'm aware of the injuries) and lead them to the finals in 2002 and 2003. Marbury struggled in the East with Nets, he struggled in the West with the Suns and he's struggling in the East again with the Knicks. He's not a proven winner. Jason Kidd is. (No rings I know, but BOTH of them don't have it so in terms of playoff sucess, Kidd is way out in front.)</div> If Kidd had to deal with injuries like Marbury who knows where'd the be. Marbury with the Suns took them to the playoffs and they gave the NBA champion Spurs a very tough time. He even bailed them out on the first game. Overall it was a pretty good season for them. Next year injuries again took a tole. I know he's had more success, but a loss is a loss as you said. And in this case a ring is a ring. You either have it or you don't. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Great point. Sounds like my words are getting to your head </div> I hope that means you'll do it <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now you're contradicting yourself...you said you KNOW what the Knicks are (which is that they are BAD), but you said you don't agree with what Jason Kidd said (which was that they were BAD). So you agree that they are bad yourself, but when Jason Kidd says they are bad you don't agree?</div> I think you misunderstood me. I know the Knicks are bad, but I dont agree with Kidd saying they are a bad team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">LOL. That's quite a plan there. With a bonehead GM like Isiah, I'm sure that will happen. What you just said astonishes me because EVERY team in the league could make a "plan" like that. Oh, let's see, sure I know the Raptors are bad, but once they get thier lottery pick, trade Jalen Rose, get rid of Mo Pete, Lamond Murray and Milt Palacio, then we have something. </div> Well the Raptors don't have a ton of expriring contracts and Isiah has brought pretty good players into the league. Haha, with a bonehead like Babcock, the Raptors might use their pick on another Araojo over Al Jefferson, JR Smith, Josh Smith, Iguodala, Telfair, and Jameer Nelson! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sign that you're giving up on this debate. This has nothing to do with popularity, we're talking about Jason Kidd saying the Knicks are bad, what does Knicks being popular have to do with it? That's like me saying "No matter how good or bad the Sonics are, they'll never be as popular as the Lakers". So what if they're popular? They're losing, the whole point of an NBA season is to win games.</div> Maybe Kidd said that because he knew that it's true? Perhaps my everlasting bitterness for the Nets know that this is true. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">O...kay. My "assesment" on your team was basically what everyone knows, from Raptor fans to Heat fans to even Knicks fans: Knicks suck. You say you dont need me giving assesments about the Knicks then you come and say that the Nets suck, which is quite funny, because they're the ones who have a legit chance of making the playoffs and your Knicks have a guarantee of being a loterry team. Yes, the Nets must really suck. For the record, this is a basketball board, I can and will be curious about every team, not just a certain one.</div> So I guess you must think these Nets are elite witha stiffling below .500 record. Did you ever think about the fact that they both suck? They're chances are rapidly diminishing. They do suck they're not fighting for homecourt advantage. They're fighting for 8th spot and aren't even in the playoffs! Oh, is that right? Curious about every team? I wonder why you're only curious when they are being bashed? He probably doesn't like the Knicks and Marbury.[/QUOTE]
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">This debate lost all credablity when MJ18 said Kidd isnt talented offensively, you think the only way that you prove you offensive talents is by scoring the basketball. What about your ablity to run an offense, which is the offensive skill most needed by a point guard, what about your ablity to make other poeoples offensive skills better, that isnt having offesive talent? please.... And as far as Kidd's indivual talents on offense no he isnt the quickest guy at getting to the hoop like say a Stephon Marbury, but his ablity to position his body using his size against other point guards whether it be in the post area or around the free throw line area, Kidd still knows how to get his shot off against anyone. And also how to draw defenders into picking up fouls. Also last time I checked he was one of the most talented open court players in the league at getting to the hoop as well as finshing from the PG slot. And No he isnt a great outside shooter. But he is solid from the mid range area. And has a nack for making the long distance ones when they really court. So for me to see someone say Kidd isnt talented offensively blows my mind.</div> I meant <u>INDIVIUALLY</u>. Kidd doesn't have the explosiveness, the finishing skills, range, accuracy etc. like Marbury. If he was as strong and possesed all of the offensive gifts as Marbury it could change his attitude. I already knew about that ability.
so what are you trying to prove mrj? Admit it man, Knicks ARE the bad team and the WORSE team than the Nets. Would you rather have Amare or D-Wade say the knicks are just another bad team than have Kidd say it? It doesn't matter who says it, he only speaks the truth.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">so what are you trying to prove mrj? Admit it man, Knicks ARE the bad team and the WORSE team than the Nets. Would you rather have Amare or D-Wade say the knicks are just another bad team than have Kidd say it? It doesn't matter who says it, he only speaks the truth.</div> true that...I don't see what's the big deal with what Jkidd said...It's just the plain and simple truth...
Alright, I'll be honest. I lost my patience with this thread in the middle of post 22 or so because the Knick fans in this thread were being absolutely rediculous. The fact of the matter is that you have no right to be upset. The Knicks are inferior competition, and yes the Nets <u>are</u> that much better than the Knicks. They are one of the hottest teams in the NBA right now. In fact, just tonight Carter had 45 points and Kidd had 17 assists in a win. If they had Kidd and Carter all season long, who knows, they may be one of the top seeds in the East right now. In fact, if they make the playoffs I think that they could even manage to upset the Heat (as crazy as it sounds). Besides, you don't seem to realize that Kidd's comment was not just about this year. Ever since Kidd has been a Net, they have been a dominant and superior team to the Knicks. The Nets have been the Eastern Conference Champions two out of the last three years. How many times has New York been the Eastern Conference Champion since Kidd has been there? Also, I think it's pathetic to call Kidd dirty and cowardly. You remember the time when Frank Williams and Kidd got into a 'fight' (by the way, Williams had just as much if not more involvement in that scuffle as Kidd), yet you don't remember that since 1997, Jason Kidd has sponsored a Christmas shopping spree for local kids from the Salvation Army. I guess you don't remember when he started the "Assists for Kidds" program where he donated $100 for every assist he got to local Phoenix charities. I guess you never heard of the Jason Kidd Basketball Scholarship Fund at Cal and St. Joseph of Notre Dame High School (Alameda, CA) or the basketball camps he runs every summer. I guess you never heard of the Jason Kidd Foundation, which provides money to children's medical research and to charitable organizations supporting the needs and interests of children. And how many times have you met the man? I have personally met him on numerous occasions and he's always very sweet and happy to talk to fans. You know, Knick fans are saying that he's just mad because the Knicks are more popular, but I just think that Knicks fans are mad because while Jason Kidd will be remembered as one of the greatest point guards of all-time, Stephon Marbury will just be another footnote in the history of C-list All-Stars who never could elevate their game to anything worth remembering twenty years from now. Dirty and cowardly?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I meant <u>INDIVIUALLY</u>. Kidd doesn't have the explosiveness, the finishing skills, range, accuracy etc. like Marbury. If he was as strong and possesed all of the offensive gifts as Marbury it could change his attitude. I already knew about that ability.</div> So you are trying to say that Kidd had the indiviua scoring ablity of a Stephon Marbury that he would look to score more and be a selfish type player like a Marbury?....hmmm, I will have to disagree with this one because Jason Kidd has the type of game he has because he grew up in Cali during the time Magic Johnson was there, showing the world how a point guard should play the right way> even if you do have alot of indiviual offensive skills you have to be able to find away to balance that along with your duties as a point guard to make everyone raise their games by you making them better. And that is the one thing Marbury never learned therefore he has always had the great indivual talent. But never formulated into him being a winner in this league. BTW: Kidd actually is a great finisher around the rim, you should check it out some time. And as far as the rest of Marbury's attributes you list....hmmmm, Marbury has always been tops on my list as guys quickest to the basket in the half-court...so I definately give you the exsploveness. But the range, hmmm, just because you chuck from anywhere on the court doesnt mean that is your range in my opinion, when Marbury comes down and takes a couple of power dribbles and then pulls up for a 30+ footer, that is not his range in my opinion, yes he can make a couple dont get me wrong. But that actually isnt his range of a high % shot for him. And that is why his shot selection has been critized just about everywhere he has gone because he doesnt know his true range. And the fact that him nor Crawford understand this is a reason why the Knicks are exactly the bad team Kidd says they are.... And this accurracy you talk about honestly this is really the first season, where someone would look at Marbury's shooting % and say they are something above the norm 46% is nice for a guard. But before this year Marbury was barely above a 40% shooter from the field, 42-43% I beleive. And that includes all the layups he gets, so you talk about his accurracy like it has been something great over the years, that is average at best. I like Steph. And probably one of the very few Nets fans that still admitt they do after his selfish display here 99'-00'.But for you to even debate putting him and Kidd on the same level in any capacity of the game blows my mind. Yes he is a better scorer, but as players & point guards its not even close in my opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">He could just, I dont know...maybe shut the hell up! The Nets as of today arent even in the playoffs. So I dont know where he gets off saying the "Knicks are just another bad team". Afterall if you dont make the playoffs you're "just another bad team" too. Or if he really had to say something he could have said it after the third game when the Knicks and Nets met each other instead of saying it after the last time they played each other. He is a true, blue, fugazy! Kidd must think he's a real tough guy insulting the Knicks when he wont see them for the rest of the season. But of course that's Jason Kidd. He's been a cowardly, dirty man for most of his career so I dont expect anything more out of him.</div> Does that mean the T'Wolves are a bad team too? Oh and last time I checked, the Nets are closer to the playoffs than the Knicks. 29 - 46 compared to 38 - 39. And yes, a lot of this success does have to do with the so called "rebirth" of VC, but in the end, winning is winning, so stop crying you Knick fans. As if the last couple of years, and to this day, Nets > Knicks. By the way, who was labled the franchise killer (not in a good way)? Look @ the Suns, they're rampaging through the Leauge right now. Did u see that happen with Marbury? Look @ what Kidd has done for the Nets. Therefore, my conclusion is JKidd > Marbury. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kidd had to deal with injuries like Marbury who knows where'd the be. Marbury with the Suns took them to the playoffs and they gave the NBA champion Spurs a very tough time. He even bailed them out on the first game. Overall it was a pretty good season for them. Next year injuries again took a tole. I know he's had more success, but a loss is a loss as you said. And in this case a ring is a ring. You either have it or you don't. </div> Wasn't this season injury plagued for JKidd? No RJ, No Kmart, and various other injuries to players. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you misunderstood me. I know the Knicks are bad, but I dont agree with Kidd saying they are a bad team.</div> So you ARE contradicting youself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kidd had to deal with injuries like Marbury who knows where'd the be. Marbury with the Suns took them to the playoffs and they gave the NBA champion Spurs a very tough time. He even bailed them out on the first game. Overall it was a pretty good season for them. Next year injuries again took a tole. I know he's had more success, but a loss is a loss as you said. And in this case a ring is a ring. You either have it or you don't. </div> Wasn't this season injury plagued for JKidd? No RJ, No Kmart, and various other injuries to players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I think you misunderstood me. I know the Knicks are bad, but I dont agree with Kidd saying they are a bad team.</div> So you ARE contradicting youself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">Alright, I'll be honest. I lost my patience with this thread in the middle of post 22 or so because the Knick fans in this thread were being absolutely rediculous. The fact of the matter is that you have no right to be upset. The Knicks are inferior competition, and yes the Nets <u>are</u> that much better than the Knicks. They are one of the hottest teams in the NBA right now. In fact, just tonight Carter had 45 points and Kidd had 17 assists in a win. If they had Kidd and Carter all season long, who knows, they may be one of the top seeds in the East right now. In fact, if they make the playoffs I think that they could even manage to upset the Heat (as crazy as it sounds). Besides, you don't seem to realize that Kidd's comment was not just about this year. Ever since Kidd has been a Net, they have been a dominant and superior team to the Knicks. The Nets have been the Eastern Conference Champions two out of the last three years. How many times has New York been the Eastern Conference Champion since Kidd has been there? Also, I think it's pathetic to call Kidd dirty and cowardly. You remember the time when Frank Williams and Kidd got into a 'fight' (by the way, Williams had just as much if not more involvement in that scuffle as Kidd), yet you don't remember that since 1997, Jason Kidd has sponsored a Christmas shopping spree for local kids from the Salvation Army. I guess you don't remember when he started the "Assists for Kidds" program where he donated $100 for every assist he got to local Phoenix charities. I guess you never heard of the Jason Kidd Basketball Scholarship Fund at Cal and St. Joseph of Notre Dame High School (Alameda, CA) or the basketball camps he runs every summer. I guess you never heard of the Jason Kidd Foundation, which provides money to children's medical research and to charitable organizations supporting the needs and interests of children. And how many times have you met the man? I have personally met him on numerous occasions and he's always very sweet and happy to talk to fans. You know, Knick fans are saying that he's just mad because the Knicks are more popular, but I just think that Knicks fans are mad because while Jason Kidd will be remembered as one of the greatest point guards of all-time, Stephon Marbury will just be another footnote in the history of C-list All-Stars who never could elevate their game to anything worth remembering twenty years from now. Dirty and cowardly?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jtam101:</div><div class="quote_post">Does that mean the T'Wolves are a bad team too? Oh and last time I checked, the Nets are closer to the playoffs than the Knicks. 29 - 46 compared to 38 - 39. And yes, a lot of this success does have to do with the so called "rebirth" of VC, but in the end, winning is winning, so stop crying you Knick fans. As if the last couple of years, and to this day, Nets > Knicks. By the way, who was labled the franchise killer (not in a good way)? Look @ the Suns, they're rampaging through the Leauge right now. Did u see that happen with Marbury? Look @ what Kidd has done for the Nets. Therefore, my conclusion is JKidd > Marbury.</div> Do you honestly think the T wolves are a good team? I laugh at anybody who does think they are a good team. At best they are mediocre. Besides the West is a little different than the East. The West is full of good teams whereas in the East a bad team or two can make the playoffs. And what the hell does Marbury have to do with anything??? This thread was about Kidd being justified in calling the Knicks a bad team. Not whether Kidd>Marbury or not. Nowhere in my post did I even compare the Nets to the Knicks. So what are you talking about? Why are you replying to me about something I never said. Please read through the thread before you post your rubbish. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting jtam101:</div><div class="quote_post">Wasn't this season injury plagued for JKidd? No RJ, No Kmart, and various other injuries to players.</div> Kenyon isnt even on the team anymore. When was the last time you watched a basketball game?? First you ask whether or not the T wolves are a good team(like the answer isnt obvious) then you say the Nets suffered injuries using Martin as an example when he plays for the Nuggets now. Apparently you are a very uninformed person so let me fill you in on a couple of things. Kenyon Martin was traded to the Nuggets for three draft picks. The T wolves after making the Western Conference Finals last season arent making the playoffs this season. Artest was suspended for the season for his part in the brawl at Auburn Hills. And Shaq was traded to Miami. As for Jefferson, noone has yet to tell me how exactly is he and Carter going to co exist considering they play the exact same kind of game and both need the ball in their hands so I dont know how detrimental Jefferson's injury was to the Nets considering Carter's great play. And oh yeah by the way mrj18 wasnt talking about this season. He was talking about the injuries that occured to the Nets when Marbury played for them. So please read then respond. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting AirJordan:</div><div class="quote_post">Knicks fans just got owned</div> You'd like that wouldnt you? I bet that would make your day. It's funny you know, if Marbury had said the Hawks are just another bad team all of you guys would have stormed this forum and condemned him. You all would have said the Knicks arent even in the playoffs so he shouldnt talk. But since this is Jason Kidd, nevermind the fact he's not even in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference, it's alright. This isnt about what Kidd said anymore this is about a bunch of hypocrites who have nothing better to do attacking the Knicks. I suppose their just the team everyone loves to hate.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you honestly think the T wolves are a good team? I laugh at anybody who does think they are a good team. At best they are mediocre. Besides the West is a little different than the East. The West is full of good teams whereas in the East a bad team or two can make the playoffs. And what the hell does Marbury have to do with anything??? This thread was about Kidd being justified in calling the Knicks a bad team. Not whether Kidd>Marbury or not. Nowhere in my post did I even compare the Nets to the Knicks. So what are you talking about? Why are you replying to me about something I never said. Please read through the thread before you post your rubbish.</div> I think that the T-Wolves are a good team. They're three games over 50% right now (40-37) and with a relatively easy season ending schedule they could very easily finish six games over 50%. Their playoff hopes aren't shattered either. I just don't know how you can call a team with Garnett, Cassell, Szerbiak, Sprewell, and Olowakandi anything but a good team. Also, I don't know why you want him to read through this entire thread, because it seems to just be going in circles. The Knicks fans are persecuting Kidd, and then non-Knicks fans come in and say they agree with Kidd's comments, so then the Knicks fans get this "me against the world mentality". Who wants to read through two pages of that? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kenyon isnt even on the team anymore. When was the last time you watched a basketball game?? First you ask whether or not the T wolves are a good team(like the answer isnt obvious) then you say the Nets suffered injuries using Martin as an example when he plays for the Nuggets now. Apparently you are a very uninformed person so let me fill you in on a couple of things. Kenyon Martin was traded to the Nuggets for three draft picks. The T wolves after making the Western Conference Finals last season arent making the playoffs this season. Artest was suspended for the season for his part in the brawl at Auburn Hills. And Shaq was traded to Miami.</div> I have never read such a pompous and arrogant post. The man obviously knows that Martin is no longer a Net, and it was obviously just a mistake or he was trying to say that Kidd has lost a lot of his talent on his team over the years. Either way, there was a no reason for you to make a post mocking him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Jefferson, noone has yet to tell me how exactly is he and Carter going to co exist considering they play the exact same kind of game and both need the ball in their hands so I dont know how detrimental Jefferson's injury was to the Nets considering Carter's great play. And oh yeah by the way mrj18 wasnt talking about this season. He was talking about the injuries that occured to the Nets when Marbury played for them. So please read then respond.</div> Oh come on. You can not tell me that adding Richard Jefferson to the Nets lineup would be detrimental for them. That's just ludacris. Who's saying that Richard Jefferson and Vince Carter can't both get touches anyway? They have the best point guard in the game feeding them the ball. Martin and Jefferson worked, so why wouldn't Carter and Jefferson? Neither one's game is limiting to scoring either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's funny you know, if Marbury had said the Hawks are just another bad team all of you guys would have stormed this forum and condemned him. You all would have said the Knicks arent even in the playoffs so he shouldnt talk. But since this is Jason Kidd, nevermind the fact he's not even in the playoffs in the Eastern Conference, it's alright. This isnt about what Kidd said anymore this is about a bunch of hypocrites who have nothing better to do attacking the Knicks. I suppose their just the team everyone loves to hate.</div> Who are you to insult my intelligence by telling me what I'd post in a situation like that? I would probably treat the situation in the same manner, and if I didn't it would be because Marbury has never proven anything or won anything on the T-Wolves, Nets, Suns, or Knicks while Kidd has two Eastern Conference titles in the last three years to show for himself, and his team now has a 50% record. Kidd has a little more room to talk.
Knicks fans still don't get it. I guess that's the New York mentality, to be oblivious to everyone saying they're wrong. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I bet you wish you were a New Yorker...haha. </div> No, I'm quite happy being from the GTA (Toronto). <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Even if the Nets were a considerably better team with a healthy RJ, the Knicks have the potential to be like that as well with a healthy Houston. </div> So you basically agree with me that the Nets ARE a considerbly better team then the Knicks with RJ in the lineup, then you discount your defence by saying the Knicks "have the potential to be like that as well". Potential and proven effectiveness and two different things. The Nets have been producing dangerously since they acquirred Carter, even with one of the weakest starting lineups (aside from Kidd and Carter) and bench in the league, yet they're still beating teams consistently. The Knicks have a solid squad with some great and somewhat underrated players yet they can't even contend for a playoff spot. By the way, many people would pick a Kidd-Carter-RJ to be more effective then a Marbury-Crawford-Houston trio. Once again, you have 3 shoot-first guys on the same team, with Marbury being the point guard that looks to get his own. Kidd looks to set up and involve people around him before he gets his own and that recycles my whole point of Kidd making the ones around him better, which in turn, makes the team better. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If Marbury was asked "How is your family?" And he says "they're good. I make sure I don't beat them like Kidd did to his wife." Isn't that true? </div> Him disrespecting Jason Kidd's personal life is just shameful and disrespectful in every aspect of the word. Yes, he had troubles with his wife but what does have to do with basketball? Kidd said the Knicks suck, that's true isn't it? We're discussing Kidd's comments relating to basketball. If Kidd had said that Marbury as a person is "a loser who sucks" then I wouldn't be defending Kidd because that's disrespectful. He didn't say something degrading personally like "Marbury ain't sh--t compared to me". This is basketball we're focusing on, off-court issues have nothing to do with it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If that were the case, why doesn't he say that about every other bad team? </div> Kidd doesn't have the best feelings towards New York probably, as well as Marbury. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> They didn't get blown out! They were down by 27 and cut it to 6 in the 4th. That's not getting blown out at all. You guys didn't win by 20, I beleive you won by 12. If you saw the game, you would know it was closer than what the boxscore read. It went down to the final minutes. </div> I watched the game. I watched the lead squander to 99-92, then I watched Kidd make some great plays on the offensive end and the Nets diminish the Knicks as Jamal Crawford threw passes out of bounds and JYD was the guy taking shots. We won by 12, it was close down the stretch but you guys blew it. Like many times this season, the Knicks choked again. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Where does confidence come in? Saying a team is bad? </div> He confidently said that the Knicks are bad to the NEW YORK media. No one except the people of NY disagree with him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You wanted some instances I gave you some. You can also add some off court stuff too </div> That still doesn't answer my original point: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You're bringing up TWO incidents he's done (against the Knicks no less) and using those two points to defend that hes been "dirty his whole career". That doesn't make sense and doesn't prove anything. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm saying if Kidd had the offensive tools as Marbury, you don't know whether he would look to pass or score first. That Travis Best thing was a joke right? </div> You're missing the point here. Kidd is a POINT GUARD, whose job is to PASS FIRST. Marbury is supposed to be a POINT GUARD, but he looks to SHOOT FIRST. See the difference? He's had the shoot first mentality from Minnesota to NJ to Pheonix to the Knicks. He will never change. Kidd is a point guard, his game was crafted to pass the ball and make others better. Marbury is a point guard only by name. And yes, the Travis Best thing was a joke. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If Kidd had to deal with injuries like Marbury who knows where'd the be. Marbury with the Suns took them to the playoffs and they gave the NBA champion Spurs a very tough time </div> Injuries are the cheapest excuses in the book and they don't justify anything. Okay, I can make a point like that for any and every team in the league. If the Raptors hadn't lost Vince in the middle of the 2001-2002 season, in which they had a legit shot of contending for home court, who knows where they would have gone? If Karl Malone hadn't gotten injured last year in the playoffs and in December of 2003, who knows where the Lakers would have gone? Giving a team a tough time has nothing to do with actually winning a series. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I know he's had more success, but a loss is a loss as you said. And in this case a ring is a ring. You either have it or you don't. </div> Yes, but you are trying to match them up head to head, that's why I'm bringing up that point. If you wanna compare the two, you must also compare them team-sucess wise. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I think you misunderstood me. I know the Knicks are bad, but I dont agree with Kidd saying they are a bad team </div> Once again, your sentence doesn't make any sense. You know the Knicks are bad, but when someone else says thier bad, you don't agree? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Haha, with a bonehead like Babcock, the Raptors might use their pick on another Araojo over Al Jefferson, JR Smith, Josh Smith, Iguodala, Telfair, and Jameer </div> I have no shame in saying Rob Babcock got ripped off in the Vince trade and was a bust as a GM in his first year. See, that's what I'm trying to say. I know when I have been proven wrong, there's no point in defending something that can't be defended. Isiah is a stupid GM as of now. Ask any league executive, NBA columnist and the fans, maybe even Knicks fans, and they'd say the same thing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> 1.So I guess you must think these Nets are elite witha stiffling below .500 record. 2.Did you ever think about the fact that they both suck? They're chances are rapidly diminishing. 3.They do suck they're not fighting for homecourt advantage. 4. Curious about every team? I wonder why you're only curious when they are being bashed? </div> To first bold: I do think they are an elite team in the East because with such a sub-par team that was just glued together after the Vince trade, they are still beating teams and have been one of the hottest teams in the league. 2nd Bold: They don't BOTH suck. The Knicks suck, and it's been proven. Unless the Nets are completely out of the playoffs, they don't technically "suck". They have been proven as winners since the All-Star break and I wouldn't qualify them in the same place as the Knicks, and I'm sure everyone (except of course, the Knicks fans) agree. 3rd bold: I guess the Cavs, Wizards, Sixers, Pacers, Nuggets, Kings, Rockets and Grizzlies suck too with your theory. Fourth Bold- I reply to topics that are fun and worth debating as well as proving wrong people who don't seem to realize reality in itself. You took Kidd's words as a stab at your organization when infact, he was merely stating the truth, take it how you want it. If Carter had said that the Lakers suck, I would have agreed because they do. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Please read through the thread before you post your rubbish. </div> Tribute, follow your own advice. You're the one who posted the comment saying that Kidd has been known as a "dirty and cowardly player his whole career" with no proofing or backing whatsoever. You based his "whole career" on his incident with JYD, which is the biggest rubbish I have seen in the thread. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> You'd like that wouldnt you? I bet that would make your day. </div> Actually it would, Knicks fans are the most ignorant and oblivious fans I've seen, even more so then some Lakers fans I see. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> if Marbury had said the Hawks are just another bad team all of you guys would have stormed this forum and condemned him </div> Actually, I would have defended him as well. I defended Kidd cause he spoke the truth but you Knicks fans see it like Kidd was talking bad about an elite team. He was talking about the Knicks and everyone, including you faithful fans, know they SUCK. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> This isnt about what Kidd said anymore this is about a bunch of hypocrites who have nothing better to do attacking the Knicks. I suppose their just the team everyone loves to hate. </div> Hahah, you'd like that wouldn't you? Being the team everyone loves to hate. Sorry that title still belong to the Lakers. It's funny that you're saying we have nothing better to do then attack the Knicks....so I guess you have nothing better to do then defend the Knicks in a manner that doesn't even defend them. You just act oblivious to the fact that Kidd said the Knicks sucks, WHICH THEY DO, so what's the deal?
