<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NuSpace:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks could offer more than what we got from Philly... I would rather have Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Penny Hardaway or whatever rather than Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner, Corliss Williamson... KT is a great post defender, for us to match up against KG, TD and Amare, and has a smooth jumper, much more reliable than Webber's. He's averaging double digits in rebounding this year, and he isn't the defensively liablity that is Webber. Penny adds depth and more firepower. More fillers might be included or whatever.</div>Kurt, Tim and Penny are all ridiculously overpaid and their salaries would not be able to match Webbers. Kurt is a good post defender but he is signed on to make about 7 million each year for the next four years, Tim Thomas makes even more than Kurt and for a 6'11 guy he averages 3.4 rebounds a game, Penny is one of the most overpaid players in the NBA and he has a year left at 13 million. This would have been a horrible trade for Sacramento. It's basically like taking 3 big contracts off the Knicks and handcuffing themselves in the process. On to the trade...... I think this trade was done for numerous reasons on Petrie's part. He is a very smart GM so he wouldn't trade an all star for 3 marginally above average players. Reasons as to why this trade was done: 1. To please Peja. Webber and Peja were not getting along at all in Sac town and it is Peja's last year in his contract. Considering the fact that if Webber was still in Sacramento, signing Peja would be really difficult to do in the offseason. When Webber went down with injury Peja played arguably his best ball in his career. I'm guessing the Kings hope he can return back to his old form and become the franchise player they always thought he could be. 2. Age and Injuries. Webber has constantly went down with injuries in his career. Even though Webber is playing amazing basketball at this point, Geoff Petrie must know something that we don't about his health. I have heard of reports that Webber is basically playing on one leg after constant knee surgery. Coupled in with the fact that he is old and a constant liability on defence, this trade does make sense. 3. Post defence and more flexibility with trades. Kenny Thomas and Skinner are underrated post defenders and bringing them into Sactown would provide a good defensive front court along with Brad Miller. They also provide Petrie with more pieces to work with in trades. All of their salaries matched (along with Williamsons) Webbers so they would be easier to move then Webber was. I don't want to say that this is a good trade for Sactown but I do understand some of the reasons as to why Petrie would have done this. There is no way you trade an all star unless it is to better your future or to make an immediate impact on your team. I think Petrie has done both with this trade.
I think that the Kings could have done better than this. They do bring in some defensize prowess in Thomas, but he will have a hard time filling in C-Webb's spot. I think the Sixers could have worked out a better deal. This was a bad trade for the Kings.
The Kings play better WITHOUT Webber. Trading him was the best move they could make. Chris is overrated and tries to take over every game. Not that this matter, but he also has the ugliest shooting form on the planet and he thinks he's some kind of point guard or something.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's a list of good things about this deal: - - - - -</div> I totally agree...a stupid move for the Kings from my point of view
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NuSpace:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks could offer more than what we got from Philly... I would rather have Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Penny Hardaway or whatever rather than Kenny Thomas, Brian Skinner, Corliss Williamson....</div> Why? Kurt Thomas is vastly on the decline, plus makes more money. TT is the most overpaid player in the league and the biggest bust in recent memory, the kings need d and rebounding, TT only averages 3.1 rebs per game with his size, thats pathetic. P.Hardaway makes a disgusting amount of money and does nothing. That trade would have been way worse, you must be a knicks fan. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting NuSpace:</div><div class="quote_post">We didn't get back talent, draft picks or expiring contracts... We got a little depth, but I believe that we could've gotten so much more... You don't trade a perrenial all-star unless one or more of the above are included.......</div> The goal is not to put together an all-star team, you need a team that will play well together. You don't need to have 5 starters that all can score 20 pts. when you have little d and rebounding. The kings dealt from one of their strengths to address one of their weaknesses, thats what good GM's do. You don't try to put together a bunch of players people recognize. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting NuSpace:</div><div class="quote_post">My problem with the trade is I feel that we could've gotten more than we did. Last year, the Kings were able to go most of the year without Webber. I can't see why they can't accomplish the same feat, yet I don't see them close to contending for a title unless they make more moves.</div> I don't know if this trades puts them over the top, but it definatly makes them better. And thats the bottom line, it makes them a more rounded team, and as everyone knows, defense wins championships
Well, the Kings still have plenty of offense in Bibby, Peja and Miller. Maybe Songaila is ready to step up to some prime time minutes as well i.e, the Kings may feel that he won't reach his full potential with Webber around. As far as Webber on the floor, he's averaging almost 6 apg so I don't know that guys 'standing around' while he has the ball is all that accurate a statement. As a Sonics fan I always felt that when he had the ball up top that if he didn't shoot the jumper he'd always kill us with a nice pass for a layup. Having said that he had a penchant for the ill-advised behind the back/neck/shoulder pass at the most inopportune time, it seemed. And suprsingly little was made (at least in the national media) about his suspension for drug use early this year; it was mostly focused on his lying to the grand jury. re: the players the Kings recieved, I have to think it's a bit of addition by subtraction. KT not too long ago was considered one of the very best defensive 4's in the game. Corliss Williamson is a legit low post threat who brings championship experience. I think both these guys can excel as being 'complimentary' pieces to your big 3.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Cody 7k:</div><div class="quote_post">The Kings play better WITHOUT Webber.</div>Agreed. In fact, according to the stats, the Kings are 4.5 points a game better with Webber OFF the floor, than on. His defense is putrid - the Kings' opponents shoot 2.3% FG% BETTER with him on the floor - and he's shooting 44.7%. That's horrible for a marquee PF. And now, instead of Webber, who got the ball 1.55 times per minute (thats as many touches as some point guards, which is crazy), they have Kenny Thomas (.79), Corliss Williamson (.82) and Brian Skinner (.46). They will free up a LOT of touches for Brad, Peja and Mike. If you think about it, in his 36 mpg, Webber would have had about 56 touches a game. With the threesome above taking up those minutes, with let's say Skinner (2.3) playing 5 minutes, Williamson (9.8) playing 12 and KT (15) playing 19, that's a combined 27 touches between them. To simplify all that math, that means 29 (!) more touches for Bibby, Peja and Brad.
I, personally, think that this is a steal for the 76'ers. I understand and know that K. Thomas has some value. I understand that Webber has made some brash statements in the off-season. Hey, maybe they asked Webber out of respect and he wanted to go. I can't judge Webber's locker room presence. BUT, the main thing that bothers me is the fact that they gave away Barnes. Barnes was a bright spot and seemed valuable when given playing time. If it had just been for Webber and Bradley, I could possibly see it. But Barnes should not have been in the mix. Just my opinion of a team that I respect.
Read between the lines folks This is how the trade really breaks down. The Kings are a better defensive team when Webber is not in. (I didnt say great defensivly, just better. and thats not really saying much) Thomas brings more mobility and rebounding to the 4. Rebounding is the one thing that everyone can agree on that this team is so bad at that its making a huge difference in their games. This trade addresses that. The Kings are a more open and faster running team with Webber off the floor. This is not a knock on webber, but it is the truth. it takes him forever to get back on defense, at times is the last guy up on offense, wants to play point-forward and handle the ball way too much. (once you get your offense set thats one thing, but sorry, I dont want him handling out of the backcourt, I want him getting set up down low which I have not seen him do since January). This trade addresss that issue also. I dont care what anyone else wants to say about this not being about the money. Its all about the money and petrie even said so in his press conference. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> This makes it easier to work with our roster, there are things we can do now that we couldnt do before and it gives us a bit of depth" </div> If that isnt a straight "you make too much to justify keeping you around" issue I dont know what is. This trade is all about the money. What you are seeing is the rebuilding of a franchise minus all the hype and noise. By next years trade deadline, I fully expect to have only the following players on this roster. Bibby Miller Stojakovic Songaila I think that everyone else on this team is going to be up for grabs next year including Mobley Jackson and Evans. The Kings now are suddenly in great shape to make some great off season moves in the next off season & I have a strong feeling you will see just that. Does that mean that the Kings are done for the year & are packing up shop? No. But there are some other considerations that are going on as well. The system that the Kings have in place has a way of just making the best of everyones usefull talents. Time after Time we have seen players who get plugged into this system and have immediate success providing they have at least a modicum motivation. One last thing... think of every trade/move that Petrie has made where everyone thought he was out of his mind for doing it. Every single one of them have in retrospect been great moves. I have to say that he has to know something that everyone else doesnt know and once whatever that is gets out, I have a feeling that this move will also be hailed as another one of his great moves. But only time will tell with that one.
This trade reminds me a lot of the Kobe-Shaq situation with the Lakers last year. The Lakers choose to go with youth and to rebuild the team around Kobe, Odom, and Caron instead of bringing back Shaq, Malone, Fox, and Payton. The Lakers wanted to make the situation favorable to Kobe, just like the Kings want to make the situation favorable for Peja. Let's not forget last season, how Peja broke out when Webber was injured, and then regressed tremendously when Webber came back. Even though Peja has disappeared in the playoffs, I think a lot of it had to do with the lack of confidence in his game. You can only speculate Webber was a big part of that. Just like Shaq was the face of the Lakers, Webber was the face of the Kings. However, both are past their prime and injuries have caught up with both players, yet they are still eating up the most cap space. I predicted Webber would be traded after the Kings dealt Christie for Mobley. The Kings realize they are not in a position to compete against the other Western powerhouses, so they have decided to revamp the team by getting younger and deeper. Just look at the parallels between the two former Pacific powerhouses. Shaq - Webber Malone - Vlade Fox/Payton - Christie At first glance it looks like the 76ers ripped the Kings on this deal. Matching up Iverson with another All-Star in Webber makes the 76ers a lot better and will steal the headlines. However, it also helps the Kings team tremendously. The Kings just added depth and defense to their frontcourt to players who don't need the ball or plays called for them to score. The offense gets to run through Bibby now, and both Mobley and Peja will get increased shot attemtps. Someone mentioned the Kings should have demanded draft picks or young talent back. Why? The Kings have a lot of young talent already, and are a playoff team. They don't need to rebuild, they needed to reload and improve their interior defense and their depth in the frontcourt. This trade filled both of those voids. Being forced to play with a smaller lineup because Ostertag is the only big guy left on the bench won't help the Kings in the playoffs. Now Adelman can look down the bench and bring in the Big Nasty, Kenny Thomas, or Skinner. There will be an adjustment period, and the Kings won't be as flashy anymore, but this moves makes them a better playoff team and gives them a better chance to win against Duncan, Amare, Yao, and Nowitzki.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's a list of good things about this deal: - - - - -</div> Tru Dat (long pause) (sighs) Tru Dat
The Kings are the TRUE sleeper in the west now.Nobody is expecting anything from them from what I hear.What it seems people arent realizing is their defense just got better and their crazy offense just got a little less crazy.Like someone in here said it wasnt too long ago that Thomas was considered a top defender at the powerforward spot.Not only that but he has a nice shot which is going to make him effective in the Kings offense.Im not trying to make Thomas seem like an allstar but people seem to forget the Kings were on pace to win 60 games last year without Webber.They also got some more defensive minded guys along with it.I think its only a matter of time before Sac gets familiar with Thomas and then I think they'll surprise alot of people.Im a little disappointed in the way the media has chosen to portray this whole thing.
well... last nights game just proves, if it aint one thing its another the Kings were great on the boards last night and again they put up a lot of points, but last night instead of rebounding being the problem (which clearly improved last night) suddenly turnovers are a problem. Songaila had 6 alone last night... and defense continues to be a problem last night the Mavs outscored the Kings ~40-25 in the 4th.. clearly not good defense and the extreamly high amount of turnovers combined to kill them last night. the good side of it all, Songaila looked really good getting the start last night grabbing 23pts and 12 hbs. Mobley had 20+ pts each. It was actually a lot closer game than I thought it would be (I figured the Kings would get slaughtered last night) but they came out strong to start the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harbingerofdoom:</div><div class="quote_post">well... last nights game just proves, if it aint one thing its another the Kings were great on the boards last night and again they put up a lot of points, but last night instead of rebounding being the problem (which clearly improved last night) suddenly turnovers are a problem. Songaila had 6 alone last night... and defense continues to be a problem last night the Mavs outscored the Kings ~40-25 in the 4th.. clearly not good defense and the extreamly high amount of turnovers combined to kill them last night. the good side of it all, Songaila looked really good getting the start last night grabbing 23pts and 12 hbs. Mobley had 20+ pts each. It was actually a lot closer game than I thought it would be (I figured the Kings would get slaughtered last night) but they came out strong to start the game.</div> Last night the Kings almost beat the Mavs without Peja and without any of the players they acquired in the trade. They kept up with the Mavs until the 4th quarter.
The Kings got outrebounded by 7.I dont see how last night was an improvement in that area.I thought They clearly ran out of gas in the end due to only having 8 players avaiable on the roster.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Last night the Kings almost beat the Mavs without Peja and without any of the players they acquired in the trade. They kept up with the Mavs until the 4th quarter.</div> well, yeah, I would agree with you except the part about 'almost beat them'. cant say that when they throw up a 40pt 4th and the Kings are a team that has been known all year long as a team that fades out in the 4th Q. that loss just kinda reenforces that idea. but they did rattle off the first 10 pts of the game... has the lead goin into the 4th and overall played a LOT better than I imagined. I felt that the trade would be a distraction to them and really thought that the Mavs would play a lot more aggresively and cause some foul troubles for the Kings (since they were very short-handed last night). but with everything that was going on, I gotta say that they did play pretty good last night.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GiantMidget:</div><div class="quote_post">The Kings got outrebounded by 7.I dont see how last night was an improvement in that area.I thought They clearly ran out of gas in the end due to only having 8 players avaiable on the roster.</div> because the guys that you expect to get big numbers in rebounding got them look at the box score and check out the rebounding by your 4 and your 5. much improved than where it was previously. and that has nothing to do with running out of gas but yeah, your right, they did fade late in the game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Last night the Kings almost beat the Mavs without Peja and without any of the players they acquired in the trade. They kept up with the Mavs until the 4th quarter.</div> TRU! and also.. being out rebounded by 7 they will have thomas, and the other 2 in there that could make the kings great <font size="6">HAVE FAITH!</font>
well lets look at it this year last year.. NO WEBBER we had best rec in league! Peja was MVP Candidate! NOW... we got no webber Bibby, Peja, Mobley, Miller all will step up.. and Thomas and Darius will know their role and play well.. also evans and house and williamson off the bench.. it isnt our best... but its good for now WATCH OUT WE MIGHT BE BETTER THAN BEFORE!
Without Webber Kings might be a better regular season team, but in the playoffs, I really don't think they're going anywhere w/o C-Webb.
