Kirilenko?

<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, I'm back on board the Kwan bandwagon </div>

Lol, make up your mind ...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Kwan1031 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Lol, make up your mind ...</div>

It's hard! You make compelling points -- as much as I am enamoured with the potential of what AK-47 might turn out to be, that Dunleavy comparison is scary. Moreover, JRich has been the heart and soul of this team, so if we trade him, it would be better to do a package for a star player who will shine in Golden State.

And you're right, I've said it all along -- Nellie refuses to play 2 bigs together. I wanted to see Powell/Beans last season, and we only saw glimpses in garbage time.

If we get a max-contract PF, it better be someone who Nellie will play 40 mins a night. Perhaps probe the market for Gasol, JO, KG, or otherwise go after a second-tier guy like the Knicks David Lee.

Or, there's the draft...

oh why can't I make up my mind!?

 

Yeah, I also saw AK47 closely during this PO, because I also thought about swapping Richardson for AK47. He basically had 4 excellent games (Houston game 7 and game 1, 2, and 3 against us), and when he is good, I was amazed at how he can come out from nowhere to swat shots. But, he really didn't show any offense throughout PO, and we really gave wide open shots after shots. When he disappears, he really seemed to disappear, and if you combine that with inconsistancy, you get yourself Dunleavy. At least Dunleavy gets half of what AK47 gets... This team simply cannot take another salary blunder especially something like max contract. And, if we have to gamble on what AK can be, instead of what he is now, I simply cannot take that gamble.

Don't be surprised if we actually package Monta for big 4 though. I mean, ideally, we will try to get big 4 for Richardson. But, if not, we may even trade Monta for an immidiate gain. Right now, I seriously doubt that we can retain both Monta and Biedrins. If so, there is a chance that we will cash in either Biedrins or Monta with the right return. And, of course, we desperately need to dump Foyle's contract for an expiring deal...

 

I thought interesting that people want to trade j-rich.... and get that big...... so who is the 4 who is out there worth j-rich and available?

cause i dont see it.... so here are the 4's

dallas - dirk - um no i dont see the mvp moving anywhere

houston - howard - um ...no .... wouldnt want him

atl m williams - not the kind of 4 we need, but might be good in nellie's sytem - still a no for j-rich

boston - al jefferson - lost weight played better - i guess if it was in a package including the rights to Yi - maybe.

charlotte - okafor - well yeah i would do this - doubt charlotte would - so not available

chicago brown - free agent and old - nocioni - also free agent - would love to see us sign him

cleveland gooden - no thank you

denver - nene - seems like he improved quite a bit but i still wouldnt trade j-rich for him kenyon martin i wouldnt trade for at all - injuries and contract and attitude forget him

detroit - r wallace - no thanks- i dont see the fit.....

indiana - murph - come on

clippers - brand - ok finally the one player so far i would trade j-rich for that is a 4 - no way the clips do it

lakers odoom - would be intriguing fit with nellie - but the guy is always injured - we have enough players like that and i am not sure he brings it every night

grizzlies gasol - i dont know ..... i say no ....with hesitation..... but the grizz dont really need j-rich - mute point

miami haslem - good role player - would like him but j-rich is too high a price to pay

milwaukee - another injured guy

minn - garnett - well of course i would

nj do the nets have a power forward? moore?

new orleans - d west - now here is a guy i would like to get but j-rich is too high a price to pay.... but a maybe...again doubt hornets are looking to move him

new york - frye - there is no knick i would want

orlando - battie - no thanks - i think going after milicic would be a good move for us in a sign and trade - not for j-rich

philly hunter - no thanks

pho diaw - not edxactly that power forward but fits our team - still not for j-rich

port randolph - this sounds like the guy we are looking for but do we want his baggage - can he play and stay in shape like last season - does he fit nellie ball?

sac k thomas - not for j-rich

san antonio duncan - yeah right

seattle wilcox - well he would fit ...... for j-rich though?

toronto bosh - going nowhere

utah boozer going nowhere - kirelenko been discussed i say no thank you due to fragile factor

wash - jamison - i dont think so


so i would be surprised to see j-rich moved for a 4 as i dont see who we would get - andthere are'nt many i would trade j-rich for

a very short list

KG
Brand
okafor

and the only two that seem available are wilcox and randolph

In fact i dont see anyone that i would trade Monta for of these guys.....

Monta for Wilcox?

So who or what am i missing?

 

<div class="quote_poster">AlleyOop Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, I'm back on board the Kwan bandwagon </div>

Dammit, I'll win you back, wait until later tonight. Kwam hit me with a monster and I got some work that must be done.

 

<div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dammit, I'll win you back, wait until later tonight. Kwam hit me with a monster and I got some work that must be done.</div>

Okay, I'll keep the table open.

<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I thought interesting that people want to trade j-rich.... and get that big...... so who is the 4 who is out there worth j-rich and available?

cause i dont see it.... so here are the 4's

indiana - murph - come on
...

new york - frye - there is no knick i would want
...

So who or what am i missing?</div>

Well, two of my favorite targets, IMO: David Lee, from the Knicks, and JO from the Pacers. Both had outstanding seasons and would fit well. I don't know what the Knicks would want for Lee, but dude averaged a double-double last year and shot 60% from the field. Pretty impressive. Would Nellie play him at PF alongside Beans? I dunno.

Oh, and the way Jamison played in the POs, I'd have to consider a JRich for Twan swap. Plus, although Twan makes 16 mils next year (player option), it's an expiring contract. If we do JRich + Sarunas for Jamison, that 16 mils comes off the books next year. We'd get one year of Nellie's 6th man of the year and a guy who could do great in this system with Baron, Monta and Beans, and then we'd get huge cap relief to sign Monta and Beans next year.

Okay, I've got it! JRich + Sarunas for Antawn Jamison!!!!!!! = Perfect Nellie PF and huge cap relief to sign Monta/Beans!

 

From what I read from Kwan, it seems that Randolph is the guy for Goldenstate.

I have watched little of his game his entire career, but he seems capable of putting up points and boards, although I have heard his defense has been questionable. (but with Nelly, Kwan was saying that if he is good with offense that is what matters, and defense not so much)

He makes 13 mill next year, so a J-Rich for ZBo works out.

Or a trade could be J-Rich + Foyle + Sarunas for Zbo + LaFrentz + Martell Webster

 

<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I thought interesting that people want to trade j-rich.... and get that big...... so who is the 4 who is out there worth j-rich and available?

cause i dont see it.... so here are the 4's
...
so i would be surprised to see j-rich moved for a 4 as i dont see who we would get - andthere are'nt many i would trade j-rich for

a very short list

KG
Brand
okafor

and the only two that seem available are wilcox and randolph

In fact i dont see anyone that i would trade Monta for of these guys.....

Monta for Wilcox?

So who or what am i missing?</div>

I would suggest giving a try at Kevin Garnett. I would support offering Monta Ellis, Jason Richardson, Al Harrington, Patrick O'Bryant and even our draft pick(s) for KG. I think there is some possibility that the TWolves would somewhat desire this deal because they add Ellis with Foye, along with a good young big prospect in POB (isn't he still only 21 or so?), and JRich and Harrington are good players where Al can possibly play the 4 and JRich the 2 or 3, and draft picks could help them as well. Then the Warriors would need to look to resign Pietrus, Barnes, and Azubuike, and possibly help at the 2 if we have any picks remaining. Then perhaps the team can throw out something like Baron/Jackson/Pietrus(Barnes or Azubuike)/KG/Andris. Defensively that is a strong lineup. Athletically this team is very strong as well. The passing improves with KG, as does rebounding (especially rebounding). Perhaps with this deep draft and so many international players in it, there will be a 2/3 that this team could pick up as well after the draft if such a trade were to happen. This is kind of risky business. However unlike adding AK47 or Jermaine O'Neal, if it doesn't work out after two years, the team can pretty much start over with tons of cap room. I think KG has a better health/medical record than either Jermaine or AK as well.

Also from your list of players; I would stand a little more favorable to letting Rasheed Wallace come to the Warriors in a trade from Detroit. However I don't think a good trade for both teams could be done to bring him here. I wouldn't trade Monta Ellis for him as I would for KG. I doubt Detroit would let him go for JRich either.

 

Alley - i am with ya on Lee .... just don't see him being available

as for Jamison.....

I guess i am just against trading j-rich unless it brings in that blockbuster guy .... and that is a very short list..... j-rich and what he means to the organization the past years..... i would prefer we show him the same respect and loyalty and not move him for cap relief .... but to truly improve the team like acquiring brand.

 

<div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Alley - i am with ya on Lee .... just don't see him being available

as for Jamison.....

I guess i am just against trading j-rich unless it brings in that blockbuster guy .... and that is a very short list..... j-rich and what he means to the organization the past years..... i would prefer we show him the same respect and loyalty and not move him for cap relief .... but to truly improve the team like acquiring brand.</div>

Yeah, it is difficult, because the faithful fan in me says "JRich is the heart of the team, NO WAY do we trade him" while the cap-minded strategist GM in me says that for the right price anyone can be traded. I mean, either he's available or he isn't.

I guess I have to decide for myself if he's available (in my trade market). I mean, no way do I trade JRich for Juan Howard. But am I willing to give him up to get Elton Brand or Jermaine O'Neal? Now you're pulling on my heart strings.

 

Nelson never really builds an offense around developing post players, so I'd be worried period if we got a rookie post player we have to develop in house. If we get a player that already has those inside moves, then I won't be worried so long as he can do what Biedrins does on defense. But there's just no athletic, post players that can also hit from further out if needed. Too bad we can't get Channing Frye, LaMarcus Aldridge, or Brandan Wright. We need the big men to posess some sort of inside and outside game because it's all about offense in the starting five. Guys have to force double teams, get to the foul line, pass it, create opportunities for themselves and others, etc.

Having another shotblocker that could also rebound would help since Piety is probably gone and I remember MP had a lot of blocks for a 6'6 power forward. But like Piety, he needs to score at least better than Beans to play power forward and have more defensive mobility than Randolph or other slower, weaker defenders.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post"> Too bad we can't get Channing Frye, LaMarcus Aldridge, or Brandan Wright. We need the big men to posess some sort of inside and outside game because it's all about offense in the starting five. Guys have to force double teams, get to the foul line, pass it, create opportunities for themselves and others, etc.
</div>

I agree there's no way we're getting Aldridge and Wright but Frye is possible. Davis Lee is Isiah's golden boy, they're going to want to keep Lee and Curry together. Getting Frye makes a whole lot more sense than trading for Yi Jianlian.

I don't think it would take Jason Richardson to get him here. Isiah can include him in packages for elite players all he wants, Frye won't ever be a center piece that can bring them anything good.

Harrington + a pick might actually do it. Thing is Frye is pretty bad defensively but he's 6'11 and in his 20's. I'd hit it.

 

In general, the biggest problem for any team's board is that fans tend to drastically overvalue their own players in trade proposals (i.e. I would probably be willing to give up a package of Foyle, Harrington, and Jasikevicius for Garnett and their #7...). This board seems to have taken the opposite approach of undervaluing their own players. I like that, but it's getting to the point of going too far.

First of all, Jason Richardson has improved his game every year he's been in the league up until this past year. And up until last year, he's been incredibly durable. Yet it seems like some fans here can't wait to get rid of him.

Now, Kirilenko's a unique talent, but his production has either stayed the same or declined for the past four years. And, over the past three years, he's missed 41, 13, and 12 games, respectively. Kirilenko also makes between $2.6 mil and $3.4 mil more per year than Richardson over the next four years. That may not sound like much, but really, it's the difference between being able to re-sign Barnes and letting him go to another team.

Kwan, as always, has given an excellent analysis of the problems with such a deal, so I don't need to rehash a lot of his points. But, I'd just like to emphasis that this point: from a risk standpoint, given Kirilenko's contract and injury history, there'd have to be NO question that he was a better fit for this team than Richardson (and a re-signed Barnes). To me, that is not the case.

As for Frye, what has he done to warrant the Warriors giving up either their pick or Harrington? First of all, the salaries don't match (Frye makes $2.3 mil compared to Harrington's $7.6 mil), so the Warriors would have to take on one of New York's bad contracts, like Jerome James, which doesn't help their cap problems at all.

Secondly...seriously, what does Frye do that would make him a good fit on this team? He scores, but the Warriors don't need another scorer...unless it's post scoring, and Harrington's a better post scorer. He doesn't rebound particularly well, and he's a poor defender. The Warriors would be better off reaching for a guy like Sean Williams at #18 if you want a rebounder/shot blocker/alley-oop finisher/attitude guy.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a discussion with guys who undervalue their own players, they're much more realistic than typical overvaluing fans. But, this is a little too extreme for me.

As John Hollinger said in his 06/07 outlook for Richardson, he's become one of the top 7 or 8 shooting guards in the league. You don't just give something like that away. Especially given his continual pattern of improvement and reasonable contract given what other shooting guards are making (Larry Hughes got over $15 mil this year). I'm not saying that Richardson for Kirilenko is a horrible deal, in fact, I thought about it long and hard after the Utah series before I decided it wasn't a good deal for the Warriors. But, when Richardson's name gets tossed around for someone like Darko Milicic or even mentioned in the same breath as Channing Frye, something is wrong.

 

<div class="quote_poster">wtwalker77 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">In general, the biggest problem for any team's board is that fans tend to drastically overvalue their own players in trade proposals (i.e. I would probably be willing to give up a package of Foyle, Harrington, and Jasikevicius for Garnett and their #7...). This board seems to have taken the opposite approach of undervaluing their own players. I like that, but it's getting to the point of going too far.

First of all, Jason Richardson has improved his game every year he's been in the league up until this past year. And up until last year, he's been incredibly durable. Yet it seems like some fans here can't wait to get rid of him.

Now, Kirilenko's a unique talent, but his production has either stayed the same or declined for the past four years. And, over the past three years, he's missed 41, 13, and 12 games, respectively. Kirilenko also makes between $2.6 mil and $3.4 mil more per year than Richardson over the next four years. That may not sound like much, but really, it's the difference between being able to re-sign Barnes and letting him go to another team.

Kwan, as always, has given an excellent analysis of the problems with such a deal, so I don't need to rehash a lot of his points. But, I'd just like to emphasis that this point: from a risk standpoint, given Kirilenko's contract and injury history, there'd have to be NO question that he was a better fit for this team than Richardson (and a re-signed Barnes). To me, that is not the case.

As for Frye, what has he done to warrant the Warriors giving up either their pick or Harrington? First of all, the salaries don't match (Frye makes $2.3 mil compared to Harrington's $7.6 mil), so the Warriors would have to take on one of New York's bad contracts, like Jerome James, which doesn't help their cap problems at all.

Secondly...seriously, what does Frye do that would make him a good fit on this team? He scores, but the Warriors don't need another scorer...unless it's post scoring, and Harrington's a better post scorer. He doesn't rebound particularly well, and he's a poor defender. The Warriors would be better off reaching for a guy like Sean Williams at #18 if you want a rebounder/shot blocker/alley-oop finisher/attitude guy.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'd much rather have a discussion with guys who undervalue their own players, they're much more realistic than typical overvaluing fans. But, this is a little too extreme for me.

As John Hollinger said in his 06/07 outlook for Richardson, he's become one of the top 7 or 8 shooting guards in the league. You don't just give something like that away. Especially given his continual pattern of improvement and reasonable contract given what other shooting guards are making (Larry Hughes got over $15 mil this year). I'm not saying that Richardson for Kirilenko is a horrible deal, in fact, I thought about it long and hard after the Utah series before I decided it wasn't a good deal for the Warriors. But, when Richardson's name gets tossed around for someone like Darko Milicic or even mentioned in the same breath as Channing Frye, something is wrong.</div>

Not really much to say replying to this.

1. Richardson isn't a franchise player, trading him for Kirilenko isn't giving him away. One is a two time allstar while the other isn't. Monta Ellis at 22 is better than Richardson at the same age. Monta at 25 will be better than Richardson at 30. You can't keep Baron, JRich, Biedrins and Montay, one has to go and the obvious guy to dangle is Richardson. If you don't like the trade that's one thing but selling Richardson like he's a franchise player is a farse.

2. Never said Trade Richardson for Frye, that came from you and no we don't need to take on a bad contract. Harrington + the pick or POB for Frye and Malik Rose gets it done. Malik Rose has 1 or 2 years let on his deal and Frye can play next to Biedrins. This Frye talk is really just thinking out loud, it's not like Channing Frye would be a dream here and would fix all our problems, he's a good example of buying low.

3. Tell me something wtwalker, how in the world can you pimp Yi Jianlian while sh*tting on Channing Frye? Yi's less explosive, even weaker and has less of an interior game. I'm willing to bet Frye's probably going to be a better defender and Frye is a pretty bad dude.

4. Darko for JRich? In a minute dude, I'd do that in a minute.

See, this is what the offseason is all about, it's ON Walker!!!!

 

Darko Milicic
03-04 DET 1.4 ppg
04-05 DET 1.8 ppg
05-06 ORL 4.8 ppg
06-07 ORL 8.0 ppg

Jason Richardson
01-02 GSW 14.4 ppg
02-03 GSW 15.6 ppg
03-04 GSW 18.7 ppg
04-05 GSW 21.6 ppg
05-06 GSW 23.2 ppg
06-07 GSW 16.0 ppg

Didn't we learn from the Billy Owens trade? We made that trade thinking Owens was the missing piece and that blew up in the W's face. I'm not against moving J-Rich but only if we get someone significant in return. He is a very good player with a somewhat reasonable contract.
My concern is that Monta has only done it for one year and people are ready to trade J-Rich. I think we should wait and see how durable Monta is and if he continues to improve.
Also, B-Diddy has not played a full season in several years. While he was amazing the in the playoffs I think we need to keep our guard rotation together and add a back up pg. I really hope they don't give him an extension with top $$$$. Something reasonable maybe, but I think he is looking for something big. If they think he may become a problem in the locker room I would rather they trade B-Diddy.

 

Jrich for Darko would be a disaster IMO. We need to get Darko similar to how we got Zarko. Give up two second rounders in a draft that doesn't have a draft steal where we're picking.

I bet if we really wanted a perennial allstar big man, we gamble and trade Baron Davis and hope Ellis and our first rounder this year can take over the point. Personally, who would want to give up Baron Davis after he proved he could basically be a playoff hero several times? (except for that one free throw he botched after Pietrus missed all of them as well and the time he got ejected). The funny thing was that Baron Davis was supposed to be hurt and he didn't play very hurt. He was the heart and soul of the team during that run.

The only max player I want at this point is Baron because of the way he proved himself. I wouldn't want AK47, a mostly defensive specialist. I wouldn't even want Shawn Marion if all it does is get us to the same point as last season (second round exit). Marion ain't going to match up with the best big men in the league because he's a small forward type body and his job is defense on mainly smaller players. So I'd prefer it if we found several good unique or all-around talent type of guys with all kinds of different sized contracts that we can throw around and do some sign and trades or some other deals. Maybe we could land an important piece that could be a go-to force inside the paint and is a monster on the boards/defense. I'm afraid if we have somebody's bad contract and the player isn't really a franchise type of guy and he's making max dollars, how would we get rid of him? I feel like Jamison/Marion/AK47 are these types of players. They're good enough to be all-stars, they make a load of money, but they're more useful as utility players than important pieces that will set an anchor in the paint and eat up space. Marion, Jamison, and Ak47 can be very productive, but all of them combined won't equal a Duncan, a Shaq, or two very strong power forwards and centers that compliment one another. We need those types of big guys, not one single small forward/forward tweeners that are good out of position rebounders or shotblockers. A lot of these small guys are not an inside scorer or double team magnet like a true prototype big man position.

If we are serious about winning another ring some day, we badly need guys who can play the post and I don't even care if Nelson is against it, he ain't even won a championship yet or made it to the finals with his style and he won't be around forever.

 

Harrington for Darko -- yeah. JRich for Darko -- no.

Here's what I think: I think Kirilenko is going to go on and become a better player than ever. He already has had amazingly complete seasons with pts, reb, blks, asst, and stls -- this guy finished 3rd in blks and 4th in steals in 03-04, named to All Defensive team, all while getting 16.5 pts, 8.1 reb, and 3.1 ast. As we can see, not only did he have a solid offensive/reb year, he was also one of the best defenders in the league.

He had a sub-par season last year, but his production has been no fluke. I don't think he was the benefit of a "good system" or a "contract year" type performance -- I think Kirilenko's value is solid and dynamic and I think -- even this season -- he has been a huge part of Utah's success.

Also -- his contract is max now, but in a few years, if he is 20pts 9reb 4ast 2stl 3 blk, it will look like a bargain, especially considering inflation.

However, at the moment, I guess it's obvious we have no business getting another max-contract on this roster unless it is proven all-star KG or JO etc. If we didn't have the WOAT Foyle saddled up, that would be different... sorry, I just barfed... okay, yeah it would be different otherwise.

Considering we have 3 picks in this draft, and considering we have Zarko, POB, Kosta Perovic, and Powell, that's 4 bigs plus three picks to get it right. Out of those 7 chances, I think we should find one starter, one solid big-man who can rebound and run the floor. I mean, hey, what if the 7'2" Perovic comes over next year and is the new Zydrunas Ilglauskas?

So, as it stands, this team needs a solid, tough-minded PF who can rebound, defend, and run the floor. And it's possible we can find one "in-house."

If we are to trade JRich, it better be in a package for a star PF, not in a gamble move for a guy like Darko.

Now, AK-47 is a different story -- I think he's going to emerge as a star (not flashy scorer but a nightly triple-double threat) on the right team, but his contract is such that it's not realistic with GS.

 

<div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Not really much to say replying to this.

1. Richardson isn't a franchise player, trading him for Kirilenko isn't giving him away. One is a two time allstar while the other isn't. Monta Ellis at 22 is better than Richardson at the same age. Monta at 25 will be better than Richardson at 30. You can't keep Baron, JRich, Biedrins and Montay, one has to go and the obvious guy to dangle is Richardson. If you don't like the trade that's one thing but selling Richardson like he's a franchise player is a farse.

2. Never said Trade Richardson for Frye, that came from you and no we don't need to take on a bad contract. Harrington + the pick or POB for Frye and Malik Rose gets it done. Malik Rose has 1 or 2 years let on his deal and Frye can play next to Biedrins. This Frye talk is really just thinking out loud, it's not like Channing Frye would be a dream here and would fix all our problems, he's a good example of buying low.

3. Tell me something wtwalker, how in the world can you pimp Yi Jianlian while sh*tting on Channing Frye? Yi's less explosive, even weaker and has less of an interior game. I'm willing to bet Frye's probably going to be a better defender and Frye is a pretty bad dude.

4. Darko for JRich? In a minute dude, I'd do that in a minute.

See, this is what the offseason is all about, it's ON Walker!!!!</div>

First of all, this isn't personal, my comments just happened to be directed at you, but what I said goes for a lot of people.

1. You're right, Richardson is not a franchise player, but he's very good and he continues to get better. Other than his inability to get to the line, he's the perfect shooting guard for this team. Yes, Ellis at 22 is better than Richardson at 22, and, at 25, he may be better at than Richardson at 30. But, here's the problem: there is no guarantee. In fact, history sides with me in saying that he won't.

My biggest criticism of Warrior fans (which I assume is the same problem for most fans) is that they assume that the shiny new player will inevitably develop into a better player than whoever is in front of him. When that doesn't happen, they want to kick the former shiny new player to the curb in favor of the next guy in. At small forward, the cycle has been going for nearly 10 years. Jamison was the golden boy who was replaced by Dunleavy, who was replaced by Cardinal, then Pietrus, who was replaced by Barnes.

Probably the thing that I've harped on more than anything since I started posting on these boards three years ago is this pattern, specifically the Dunleavy vs. Pietrus debate. Before that, on the espn boards, I was pro Jamison, anti-Dunleavy. I HATE, when people don't recognize this pattern, even as it's being repeatedly played out in front of their eyes.

Our current golden boy, Monta Ellis, is now the reason you want to push out the former golden boy, Richardson (who, incidentally, was the reason people wanted to push out the previous golden boy, Larry Hughes). After reading all this, can anyone HONESTLY say that there is no doubt in their mind that Ellis is going to be better than Richardson?

No.

So, what are we left with: a proven commodity in Richardson and an unproven commodity in Ellis. In Utah, you have the Jazz's previous golden boy, Kirilenko, on the outs, because he was replaced by the new golden boy Boozer (who will eventually be erroneously replaced in their fan's eyes by the golden boy to be, Milsap). In my eyes, Kirilenko is damaged goods with a max contract. The reason I decided I wasn't for the trade is that I asked myself: does Kirilenko solve all my problems at pf? The answer was no, so there's no reason to trade him for Richardson, a guy I KNOW solves most of my problems at sg.

You're probably right that the Warriors can't keep Baron, Ellis, Richardson, and Biedrins. But, the Warriors a) are not at the point that they have to make a decision, and don't have enough information on Ellis or Biedrins yet to know who they should trade. If the Warriors aren't able to keep all four, it's because they have dead weight contracts like Foyle. The focus should be on moving/buying out Foyle, not trading Richardson.

2. What does Frye do that Harrington doesn't? By including Rose (who won't play) in the trade package, you're essentially trading Harrington for a Harrington-type player, and then giving your draft pick to New York so you can shave one year off Harrington's deal (Rose's contract expires in 2010, Harrington's in 2011). But, that's assuming that you let Frye walk after his contract is up in 2010. First of all, I think Harrington is much better than Frye. Secondly, I think the #19 pick is worth more than that.

3. Neither of us knows how good or bad Yi can be, and you certainly can't make direct comparisons to Frye based on what we know of Yi. All I can base this on is Chad Ford's (and others') pre-draft evaluations of Frye and Yi. Based on those, it appears that Yi is a better prospect. Now, as I've said many times, the draft is a crapshoot. Yi may turn out to be a bust like Tskitishvili, or he may turn out to be a star like Gasol. We don't know, and I wouldn't ever be willing to trade Biedrins, Ellis, Richardson, or Davis to find out. Those guys are proven.

But, I've seen Frye play, and I'm not impressed. He had four 20+ point games last year, and four 10+ rebound games. He doesn't shoot a high FG% (43%), and his PER last year was 10.95 after a rookie season 18.12. Now, it could be a sophomore slump, but I don't know. I'm certainly not willing to trade a guy in Harrington, who turned out to be an excellent fit (which I was 100% wrong about), for another roll of the dice. Now, a guy like O'Bryant, who was drafted before Nelson joined the team and almost certainly wouldn't have been drafted had Nelson had his say, I'd be fine with trading him. He's an unknown quantity, as is the #18 pick. I'd have no problems trading those for a third unknown in Yi, who has the potential to fit in much better with this team.

4. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Why does it have to be one pushing the other out? I don't get that argument. We're talking about shooting guard, the easiest position to replace. I love JRich, but moving him to get a better 4 is not nearly the same as people claiming that they want to move Jamison because it will give dundun more PT.

JRich has little spring left in his legs, he still can't dribble, but his heart and attitude make up for those 2 major weaknesses. If you can gaurantee that the spring in his legs will be there next season, I'd be for trading Monta for that special player. If not, I say move him before he starts falling apart.

Either way, I say dump one of the shooting guards in a deal that gets back a front court player and a defensive stopper at the 2 to back up either JRich or Ellis.