Kirilenko?

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by Montaman, Jun 3, 2007.

  1. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">CohanHater Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Why does it have to be one pushing the other out? I don't get that argument. We're talking about shooting guard, the easiest position to replace. I love JRich, but moving him to get a better 4 is not nearly the same as people claiming that they want to move Jamison because it will give dundun more PT.

    JRich has little spring left in his legs, he still can't dribble, but his heart and attitude make up for those 2 major weaknesses. If you can gaurantee that the spring in his legs will be there next season, I'd be for trading Monta for that special player. If not, I say move him before he starts falling apart.

    Either way, I say dump one of the shooting guards in a deal that gets back a front court player and a defensive stopper at the 2 to back up either JRich or Ellis.</div>

    It's Richardson getting pushed out by Ellis, based on the assumption that Ellis is going to be as good or better than Richardson (Richardson wouldn't be on the block if fans didn't think Ellis is/will be better than Richardson). Now, that assumption may turn out to be correct, but history says that the odds are against it.

    Now, I'll agree that eventually either Richardson or Ellis will be expendable, but that time hasn't come yet. Ellis had a breakout year and teams are going to start game planning against him. We already saw that in the Jazz series. He's going to go through the same process Richardson went through where he has to keep adding to his game as teams take away the things he likes to do. Who knows if he'll eventually be able to expand his game to the point where he'll be a 20+ ppg scorer no matter what defenses do against him. I think he will, but he's got a long way to go. And he's going to have plenty of times in the next two years when he'll look like he's regressed. It won't be that he's regressed, it'll be that teams have taken away what he wants to do faster than he can add things to his game (the biggest being an outside shot).

    As for Richardson, I certainly don't agree with you that Richardson has little spring left in his legs. He had the first major surgery of his career and then had the bad luck to follow it right up with an unlrelated injury to his hand. But once he came back, he showed he was just as explosive as ever, albeit a bit rusty from all the time off. I don't see any reason why he won't return to his old form and then show off the stuff he worked on in the off season, which he's done every year.

    My problem with the Kirilenko deal isn't because I think Richardson is so much better than Kirilenko. I actually think they're about on the same tier. Yes, Kirilenko is a much rarer player, but he also makes more and is more injury prone. I don't like the deal because Kirilenko doesn't solve the Warriors' problems at pf. The Warriors already lead the league in shotblocking and steals, they don't need another guy to do that. What they need is a bulky power forward who can rebound and score in the post. I'd MUCH prefer trading for a guy like Reggie Evans, or even Marcus Camby (the more I think about Camby, the more I like him, he's got a very reasonable contract and I'd like to see him at center and Biedrins at power forward).

    The last two things I wanted to respond to are: 1) I don't see any reason why the Warriors can't continue to play Ellis at the 2 and Richardson at the 3 in most instances, and 2) I think Ellis has it in him to be a terrific defender. He's got great hands and quick feet. All he needs to do is get stronger and more experienced.
     
  2. boogiescott

    boogiescott JBB JustBBall Member

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    Speaking of always injured players - Marcus Camby - ugh

    CAmby is more fragile than AK47 .....

    No thanks
     
  3. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Speaking of always injured players - Marcus Camby - ugh

    CAmby is more fragile than AK47 .....

    No thanks</div>

    You're right of course. I forgot to mention that. He did manage to play 70 games last year, but 56 and 66 games the previous two years is pretty bad (although he played 72 the year before).
     
  4. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    I think it's improper to say that Richardson is being pushed out by Ellis. The assumptions that Ellis is ready to do all of what Richardson does isn't correct. What people should be saying is that a deficiency at the 2 spot isn't as big as a weak front line. A suitable 2 (with a small salary) is better than a weak 4 or 5.

    If moving Ellis or Jrich fills that hole, I say do it. Nobody's pushing anyone out. It's purely value, what can you get for them. Getting a suitable 4 isn't worth it, it has to be a presence. Anything less than that isn't worth it.
     
  5. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">CohanHater Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I think it's improper to say that Richardson is being pushed out by Ellis. The assumptions that Ellis is ready to do all of what Richardson does isn't correct. What people should be saying is that a deficiency at the 2 spot isn't as big as a weak front line. A suitable 2 (with a small salary) is better than a weak 4 or 5.

    If moving Ellis or Jrich fills that hole, I say do it. Nobody's pushing anyone out. It's purely value, what can you get for them. Getting a suitable 4 isn't worth it, it has to be a presence. Anything less than that isn't worth it.</div>

    I agree that Ellis isn't "pushing" JRich out (or isn't prompting fans to want to push JRich out). Another way to look at it is that GS simply has a a severe deficiency at the PF position and they have a surplus of talent at G with Baron, JRich, Ellis, Az, Sarunas, and even Jax/Pietrus/Barnes at times. Lots of guard because Nellie is a guard-oriented coach.

    So it's logical that we should trade from our pool of G talent to bolster depth at the PF. JRich is a logical choice because he is the one who has a contract that can be swapped for other high-profile players. Yeah, I'd rather do AZ for Kirilenko, but the salaries don't match and it's a bad trade anyway.

    Now, JRich played well enough in the playoffs to show he is back on track. And it could be Ellis that's the one to go in a big-time package deal. Even then, though, JRich wouldn't be "pushing" Ellis out.

    Frankly, I haven't heard anyone really say that Ellis is the future so JRich is now expendable. Honestly, I do believe that Ellis has great potential, but that doesn't mean I now think JRich is chopped liver. He's the heart and soul of the team. I do think, however, that if he were to go, GS would still be okay at the G position. On the contrary, if Beans were to go, GS would be screwed at the C position.

    And while I would love to have AK-47 on this team (I don't care if he is prototypical Nellie-player or not), I don't think a JRich for AK swap is a terrific move for GS, primarily for contract reasons. Looking at it, it would probably mean the difference between keeping Beans/Ellis or losing one. Who knows, we still may lose one.

    But Ellis/Beans should be #1 priority IMO, and starting PF should be close second. With that in mind, if we do any deal, it should at least keep cap equal if not shed some dollars. If we did Harrington + s&t Pietrus for AK-47, and it kept salaries equal, I'd do that. If we did JRich + Foyle for AK-47 + Brewer, I'd do that! Because it sheds Foyle's horrible deal. But of course Utah has no need for a half-court shooting center like AF.

    I think Kirilenko is a very intriguing player, and if you look around the league at salaries, his "max" contract could very well be seen as a good value in a few years, IF he begins to produce the way he should. But that is the question mark.

    Regardless, wanting to get AK-47 has nothing to do with wanting to "push" JRich out. Personally, I'd hate to see him go. But from a GM's perspective, he might be one of the more movable chips.
     
  6. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">wtwalker77 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's Richardson getting pushed out by Ellis, based on the assumption that Ellis is going to be as good or better than Richardson (Richardson wouldn't be on the block if fans didn't think Ellis is/will be better than Richardson). Now, that assumption may turn out to be correct, but history says that the odds are against it.

    Now, I'll agree that eventually either Richardson or Ellis will be expendable, but that time hasn't come yet. Ellis had a breakout year and teams are going to start game planning against him. We already saw that in the Jazz series. He's going to go through the same process Richardson went through where he has to keep adding to his game as teams take away the things he likes to do. Who knows if he'll eventually be able to expand his game to the point where he'll be a 20+ ppg scorer no matter what defenses do against him. I think he will, but he's got a long way to go. And he's going to have plenty of times in the next two years when he'll look like he's regressed. It won't be that he's regressed, it'll be that teams have taken away what he wants to do faster than he can add things to his game (the biggest being an outside shot).

    As for Richardson, I certainly don't agree with you that Richardson has little spring left in his legs. He had the first major surgery of his career and then had the bad luck to follow it right up with an unlrelated injury to his hand. But once he came back, he showed he was just as explosive as ever, albeit a bit rusty from all the time off. I don't see any reason why he won't return to his old form and then show off the stuff he worked on in the off season, which he's done every year.

    My problem with the Kirilenko deal isn't because I think Richardson is so much better than Kirilenko. I actually think they're about on the same tier. Yes, Kirilenko is a much rarer player, but he also makes more and is more injury prone. I don't like the deal because Kirilenko doesn't solve the Warriors' problems at pf. The Warriors already lead the league in shotblocking and steals, they don't need another guy to do that. What they need is a bulky power forward who can rebound and score in the post. I'd MUCH prefer trading for a guy like Reggie Evans, or even Marcus Camby (the more I think about Camby, the more I like him, he's got a very reasonable contract and I'd like to see him at center and Biedrins at power forward).

    The last two things I wanted to respond to are: 1) I don't see any reason why the Warriors can't continue to play Ellis at the 2 and Richardson at the 3 in most instances, and 2) I think Ellis has it in him to be a terrific defender. He's got great hands and quick feet. All he needs to do is get stronger and more experienced.</div>

    Money...

    History sides on you because you want it to? Ellis has proven more at his age than Richardson at his. Ellis won MIP and got to the playoffs 5 years sooner than Richardson. Look at the list of most improved players, 3/4's of the guys on that list are impact players, history's on my side dude. And yes, they have to make their decision soon on which to keep, Ellis has one year left on his contract, they need to clear capspace and they need a PF.

    You're going to use WARRIORS history as your evidence for History? Pietrus? Dunleavy? Hahaha. Those guys were and are zeros. They're nobody. They never won anything, they never got any media spotlight, they never put up consistent numbers and they weren't any good.

    Again, Ellis is more proven at 22 than JRich was at his age. Considering the salary cap, Richardson not being a franchise player, having Stephen Jackson + Montay Ellis to pick up the slack and needing a PF, this is a gimme...Richardson is the obvious guy to be traded.

    Finally he's not the perfect fit for this team at the 2...not even close. He's a mediocre defender, doesn't go to the line, fits a halfcourt tempo better, can't put the ball on the floor, can't shoot free throws, doesn't get back in transition, everything Nelson detests. Again I like Richardson, he's all heart, probably has more than Baron. We're not going to ever win anything significant with two trigger happy guards that don't get to the line or penetrate while playing without a functional PF and for now I'll take Baron over JRich.
     
  7. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Speaking of always injured players - Marcus Camby - ugh

    CAmby is more fragile than AK47 .....

    No thanks</div>

    Yeah, I think one guy like that or one guy like AK47 is enough (Baron "I'm always injured more than a dozen games" Davis).



    Also, regarding the debate between Wtwalker and USDS, I think we're comparing two different job roles. When we had Jrich it felt like nobody could create their own shot (I think zhone said this once) except for Jrich (mainly because of his jumping ability, length of arms and strength, but not much else in terms of guard skills), Speedy Claxton (who tried to do something similar to Ellis by driving to the rim off the dribble, but had a weaker shooting game so it couldn't compliment his dribble penetrating ability), NVE (who showed flashes of what Baron does almost every game when healthy but he was too washed up), and we had a decent center playing out of his mind (Erick Dampier) who could create more space for those teammates attacking on the outside.

    When we got rid of the guys who could create off the dribble and post up (our pure point guard skill type backcourt and center), it seemed like we got a lost worse. Fisher couldn't create off the dribble or make guys better, Jrich was getting shut down since the other closest ballhandler, Mike Dunleavy Jr., couldn't do jack and was basically a big nothing at starter. Troy Murphy would rather stand around trying to play position defense and get the rebounds and unless the ball was in his hands on offense he'd tried to drive or step back into a jumper. It was affective, but it didn't do jack like having a real center or a power forward that could finish against smaller, weaker players. Then... what credible starting center did we have after Dampier? I remember we tried to make Clif and Diogu the starting center because Foyle was that bad in practice. If only Biedrins, the light weight, didn't foul so much, and our perimeter defense would make it so Biedrins didn't foul so much, I think we'd be a lot safer.

    Pant pant pant. So anyway, we got rid of our weaknesses (poor defense at F/PF and poor play at C) after losing what I thought was our strengths (dribble drive penetration and the depth for it). So, I think Ellis' role will be transfered to the role of initiator like a Claxton or Van Exel and Jrich will still be the scorer who can beat people with quickness or strength. Now if we combined both players, we'd get Baron Davis minus the playmaking ability. [​IMG] If we trade one or the other for a big man, it would have to be a good big man because we lose power at the guard/forward positions or we lose a lightning quick ballhandler and decent pull up off the curl midrange shooter.
     
  8. Ryan

    Ryan BBW Member

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    If the Warriors are going to try to make a big trade this summer, I really think they need to consider trading Davis. I know, I know, he is our best player and look how he carried the W's in the playoffs. But that's kind of my point. If Monta is ready to be a starter, which I am not sure about, he should be a point guard. Baron just played the best basketball of his life and his trade value will never be higher. If he has another 45-50 game season next year we won't be able to trade him for anything. Plus, he's probably going to get a HUGE extension soon, making him the biggest risk on the team.

    Personally, I like the core of the team and think they should not make any major moves. I think they should address the PF spot through the draft-possibly packaging our pick + Peitrus/Barnes/Harrington to move up a few spots. I also like the idea someone suggested (custodian?) about trading for Frye or Villanueva. But if a major move is going to be made, we should at least consider offers for Baron.
     
  9. Wild Child

    Wild Child JBB JustBBall Member

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    I don't think we can let Baron go yet. Monta isn't ready. One of the biggest talents Baron brings is not his playmaking ability, but his leadership. He's the one that calls the guys in for a quick huddle to get them settled down, call a play, or discuss what just happened. Monta is too shy and inexperienced to do that yet. Baron has fire and passion that gets his teammates up to play harder. I don't see Monta motivating anyone.
     
  10. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">ryanfish Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If the Warriors are going to try to make a big trade this summer, I really think they need to consider trading Davis. I know, I know, he is our best player and look how he carried the W's in the playoffs. But that's kind of my point. If Monta is ready to be a starter, which I am not sure about, he should be a point guard. Baron just played the best basketball of his life and his trade value will never be higher. If he has another 45-50 game season next year we won't be able to trade him for anything. Plus, he's probably going to get a HUGE extension soon, making him the biggest risk on the team.

    Personally, I like the core of the team and think they should not make any major moves. I think they should address the PF spot through the draft-possibly packaging our pick + Peitrus/Barnes/Harrington to move up a few spots. I also like the idea someone suggested (custodian?) about trading for Frye or Villanueva. But if a major move is going to be made, we should at least consider offers for Baron.</div>

    I agree we should keep what works, but I almost feel that if Baron Davis goes down with a more long lasting injury it's over anyway. Without that playmaking lead guard, guys will tend to just stand around or try to play selfishly ("when in doubt, shoot" mentality). So we should definitely explore what we could get for Baron Davis should we deal him this offseason or by all-star break if we have to create a more balanced team. Right now we're so imbalanced that we could beat a top team we match well against, but we have no chance in beating others without Baron Davis taking most of the shots and getting all the assists and locking down the other team's weaker point guard.

    We're just lucky Baron came in at the right time because he is the best player on the team, but he's also very injury prone and he can fall into bad habits such as sub 40% shooting and bad shot selection. Then we can fall our way back into the lotto which will suck because luck never has us winning the lotto in a deep draft with a once-in-a-decade type of player.

    I'm not the biggest proponent of Frye (I felt Diogu was a bit better at inside scoring and offensive rebounding than him personally, but Frye is a well rounded type of guy who could easily improve on his rebounding next season or the season after.) He's just really weak. Bigs are kind of funny in that they don't reach their prime until they start getting stronger and learn how to play the position they're at against others their own size. Frye is pretty ready as it is in terms of polish and he could also be more of an inside presence than AH if he gets stronger (which I think he can). But the question mark is can he get stronger soon and play more physical? I think AH Is pretty strong, but he's just not a power forward type of talent, whereas I think Frye is a power forward (although kind of slow and a bit soft at times but he could play it) or at least could be a talented skinny center. The things we liked about Murphy we could extract from Frye and keep his strengths (more inside game polish, decent passing, and good shotblocking with the hope of better rebounding like he showed earlier in college). Frye is an all-around player, but I think the reason why he is so inconsistent is like with the Biedrins problem. They're both too darn skinny and they're not able to get away with it like guys like Chris Bosh or Jermaine O'neil who pack more strength. Frye IMO also is not that athletic compared to Biedrins, Bosh, and JO so he needs to more of a position guy than an out-of-position rebounder than can just jump up and use long arms to snatch the ball away (avoiding the over the back foul by tipping it or snatching it away before the rebounder establishes position).

    I also think I might have mentioned Charlie V, but somebody probably could have suggested as well, since he is like a Lamar Odom or Chris Webber type skillset. I would love to have an athletic big guy that's strong in the passing/shooting department. It's anyone's guess as to how Nelson will value such a player, but the problem with these finesse types like Channing Frye and Charlie V is that they're well-rounded, but they don't do the physical work we need from guys like Shaq, Duncan, Elton Brand or some other strong power player. We need big guys that can make it uncomfortable for finesse types when their shots aren't falling. We saw it with Nowitzki, he just couldn't post up. If he ain't getting calls, he just gets bodied up everytime and taken out of the play settling for jumpers. Against the Jazz, we suffered from being outworked in the paint by Carlos Boozer and the other guy Mehmet Okur is a good rebounder and has ability to score inside and out. It's not clear whether Frye or V will get us any closer inside the paint than Baron Davis does going all the way to the hole. I think we need a "true" big guy that can move defenders back a little before receiving the ball or a guy who can clear some space with the ball by using inside scoring footwork. We've got to have some dominance in the paint or we get rolled over by 260 pound forwards.

    Shots won't fall forever, so it would be nice to have second chance points where we put the ball up and it goes in because the player is at point blank range. Even more icing on the cake would be to get fouled while doing that and the big man barely moves while being fouled because he's just too strong under the net.
     
  11. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Kirilenko + Giricek for JRich & Foyle.

    Warriors get a 4 that fits with Nellyball and filler.

    Utah gets a real 2 guard to start for them and get an expiring contract in 2 years time. Why in the world would Utah want Foyle? When Foyle expires, it'll be time to extend Deron Williams & Milsap which is perfect for Utah. They don't need capspace for free agency, they're going to need it for those 2. In the meantime Foyle can play 10 or so minutes a game.

    If Golden State needs to cut salary they can wait for Sarunas to expire, Giricek to expire and trade one of Harrington or Jackson for an expiring contract.

    Not only do we get Kirilenko, we ditch Foyle, have money to resign Biedrins & Ellis.

    Use the pick on the best wing player.
     
  12. boogiescott

    boogiescott JBB JustBBall Member

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    No thanks - don't need another fragile always injured player to join baron on the IR

    J-rich is the face of the franchise..... dont move him.... show him some loyalty.... the guy will be contending for an all star appearance next season.

    package harrington and sarunas for kirelnko....

    the only package i include j-rich in is a deal that gives us that power forward that is a superstar - brand, KG, possibly J-O'neal....
     
  13. wtwalker77

    wtwalker77 JBB JustBBall Member

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    If I was going to trade Richardson for a fragile, shot-blocking, defensive machine, it'd be Camby, not Kirilenko. He contract is much more reasonable than Kirilenko's (makes 5 mil per year less than Kirilenko and the contract ends two years sooner). He's a much better rebounder. Any even though he's more injury prone than Kirilenko, he's actually averaged more games over his last 4 years than Kirilenko.

    It'd be huge risk/huge reward on a season by season basis, but the long term risk of Kirilenko's contract isn't there.
     
  14. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">wtwalker77 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If I was going to trade Richardson for a fragile, shot-blocking, defensive machine, it'd be Camby, not Kirilenko. He contract is much more reasonable than Kirilenko's (makes 5 mil per year less than Kirilenko and the contract ends two years sooner). He's a much better rebounder. Any even though he's more injury prone than Kirilenko, he's actually averaged more games over his last 4 years than Kirilenko.

    It'd be huge risk/huge reward on a season by season basis, but the long term risk of Kirilenko's contract isn't there.</div>

    Camby would be wonderul but we're not getting him. Denver wants cap relief and they have Iverson and Melo, they don't need another scorer. No way any team is going to trade big for small unless they're selling low.

    It's either Kirilenko or trade some of Harrington/POB/18 for someone like Wilcox/Warrick/Sean May/Stromile Swift.
     
  15. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">It's either Kirilenko or trade some of Harrington/POB/18 for someone like Wilcox/Warrick/Sean May/Stromile Swift.</div>

    Or, we don't have to make a hasty move, and test our luck in the draft instead. There is no doubt that we have to get a stud PF if we wish to take our club to the next level. But, if there is no right move, we don't have to take what's available right now. The last thing we need is to see max contract blowing up in our face...
     
  16. upsidedownside7

    upsidedownside7 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Kwan1031 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Or, we don't have to make a hasty move, and test our luck in the draft instead. There is no doubt that we have to get a stud PF if we wish to take our club to the next level. But, if there is no right move, we don't have to take what's available right now. The last thing we need is to see max contract blowing up in our face...</div>

    Test out luck in the draft? With the 18th pick? To be a capable rotation player?

    If the warriors keep Richardson, they need another capable player to play 4.
     
  17. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    What I am saying is that if there isn't a right deal, don't make a move. AK47 may be the 'best' PF available right now. But, as I mentioned before, AK47 doesn't necessary address our rebounding, interior defense and offense problem, which our new PF should address. Therefore, even after making that deal, we will still look for PF or center who can do all those. Also, the risk of AK47 is too big, and if things goes wrong, it will greatly damage this franchise for years to come. Really, if AK47 can't address any of our weakness, why make the deal? Especially when the risk is huge? If there isn't a right deal right now, don't make that deal until we find relatively a good deal with tolerable risk. If that's the case, our best chance to get a PF may be via draft...
     
  18. AlleyOop

    AlleyOop JBB JustBBall Member

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    or in house -- don't count out Powell or Zarko yet, either...[​IMG]
     
  19. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Kwan1031 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">What I am saying is that if there isn't a right deal, don't make a move. AK47 may be the 'best' PF available right now. But, as I mentioned before, AK47 doesn't necessary address our rebounding, interior defense and offense problem, which our new PF should address. Therefore, even after making that deal, we will still look for PF or center who can do all those. Also, the risk of AK47 is too big, and if things goes wrong, it will greatly damage this franchise for years to come. Really, if AK47 can't address any of our weakness, why make the deal? Especially when the risk is huge? If there isn't a right deal right now, don't make that deal until we find relatively a good deal with tolerable risk. If that's the case, our best chance to get a PF may be via draft...</div>
    I'd go with this viewpoint.

    AK had a pretty damn lame year...all his stats dropped off 1/3,he actually scored less than Pietrus in a lot more minutes and rebounded less than Harrington. Often he floated around in a haze or seemed apathetic. In the playoffs at least his shotblocking showed up a few games...but he's gone from their best player to 4th best.

    And Giricek is useless roster clutter.

    If J Rich is our main trade chip----we need to be real sure we guess right.
    J Rich's hops HAD come back by the playoffs. On one dunk his elbow was at the rim. Somehow the gameplan all but dropped backdoor cuts and alley oops,a couple of things J Rich did well.
     
  20. REREM

    REREM JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">upsidedownside7 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Test out luck in the draft? With the 18th pick? To be a capable rotation player?

    If the warriors keep Richardson, they need another capable player to play 4.</div>

    Herbert Hill was around 18 pt,8 rbd,over 3 1/2 blocks and 64% FG. Jason Smith tested as running well with good hops---was over 10 rbd per-and averaged about 13 boards in the last month.

    Fazekas,with 11 + boards was close to Durant as tops among draftables. Combine his Soph-Jr-Sr years and he topped 20 pt/10 reb over that span....and nobody else in this crop is close to that.

    Stephane Lasme had 5 blocks and 9 plus boards per game...4 triple doubles with 10+ blocks. Nobody in recent years had 4 games of 10+ blocks...and he can be had rd 2.

    If we don't fall for the hype,take the guy who PRODUCED,not the skinny HS bluechip who's done much less...we can have a rotation quality guy with no trade up at all.

    I'd ideally trade 18 for the Suns 2 later rd 1's and draft Fazekas,Dominic McGuire and S Lasme.....each topped 9 rebounds. I'd think about Hill too,but if I got those 3-would likely go PG with the other rd 2. A Daring twist....Morris Almond and Fazekas with the late #1's,Lasme at 46. At 36 hope we get Hill or McGuire.. This is a "best Available Bargains" strategy and leaves PG depth hanging - to be dealt with elsewhere.

    Almond is not just one of the best shooter/scorer guys,he scored a lot when doubled,is a high% guy from FT,from 3,a pretty tough rebounder too. No fear in traffic. If we trade J Rich--he'd potentially pick up the slack.

    Trade? The idea I heard that I really like is based on Monta Ellis for Josh Smith. If we do that pre-draft....then we want to pick a PG or get Brevin Knight. Aaron Brooks seems the best rd 2 PG.
     

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