KNBR just said Dunleavy deal is done.

This offseason, It took 9 mils per year for Bucks to take Simmons away, who averaged 16.4 pts/ 5.9 reb / 2.7 ast / 46% from field and 44% from 3 pts, from Clippers.

In last month of last season, Dunleavy averaged 15.1 pts/ 5.8 reb / 3.3 ast / 52% from field and 51% from 3 pts.

Simmons is far better defender than Dunleavy.

Certainly the amount Dunleavy got is rather disturbing, but the biggest complain for me is that there is no reason for Mullin to resign Dunleavy right now.

Even if Dunelavy continued his hot streak throughout 05-06 season, other teams would offer no more than 9 mils per year for Dunleavy. To make things better, Dunleavy is restricted FA. Really, the only way for Dunleavy to receive 11 mils per year or something like that is when he resembles Larry Bird, which most likely won't happen. But, just like last year, Mullin gladly overpaid and did it as soon as possible. Now, he brought 60 mils per year for next 4 years in just one year with Davis, Richardson, Dunleavy, Murphy, Foyle and Fisher. We better wish that this core will go as far as they can, because we now have no flexibility, and if we wish to dump our contracts to other teams, other GMs will circle us like a pack of vulture trying to take advantage as much as possible, because they know we are not exactly in great position to bargain...

 

Wtwalker raises a good point on determining what the future market will be. In 2003 the spending will be intense with that quality of draft class. I like players that can do almost everything, make everyone else better on their team and have really helped turned their teams around in a short time. To me that means either point guards or big men or any player in between that delivers impact in a very noticeable way night after night where others feed off of their style of play. There's no doubt that 2003 has many franchise level players or elite players. Think Lebron, Hinrich, Wade, Bosh, Anthony, TJ Ford (when healthy means Playoff Bucks). Even guys like Sweetney, Collison, Kaman, Hayes, Pietrus, Ridnour, Dahntay Jones from Duke, Zarko, Josh Howard all have things that teams will pay a bunch of bucks for to fill certain needs.

(Also watch for Maciej Lampe. Don't ask me why, but I think this guy is going to shine this year with New Orleans.)

Back to Dunleavy from the draft class of 2002: While it's disappointing that we had to sign him now for about one million more per year than he's really worth, Dunleavy can always justify his contract through doing well this year and the many years after that. I think he's motivated to do whatever he can to improve. I just am not sure about his upside ever being realized. Larry Bird is a hard player to live up to. Chris Mullin is a hard player to live up to. Ever since those guys left the game, we've been left with a bunch of softies that were marginal jump shooting role players that suffered on defense.

 

As many of you are aware, I like Dunleavy and am heartened to see this be completed.

It does not matter whether its basketball, football or baseball, the overriding mantra is "keep your own." Many fantasize about, "well what would ..... be like in our uniform." Well most successful teams win with their homegrown talent. Dunleavy is no different.

He's young, he did not get a max contract but is now locked up. Why do you guys even care how much? Its not your money.

He's only been in the league 3 years. He's someone who has always improved and played hard. Patience.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post">While I don't agree with it personally, there is a lot of logic to what Mullin did. Simply put, Dunleavy got the market rate for a player of his age, productivity, and potential.

A) Dunleavy is at best the 5th best player to come out of the '02 draft class, and at worst the 8th best. Yao and Amare signed max deals, Boozer signed a 6 year/$68 mil deal, Prince signed a 5 year/$47 mil deal. Butler and Nene, the other players from '02 that are Dunleavy's caliber, have yet to sign extensions (I believe).

Other players of Dunleavy's caliber that have signed contracts recently have also helped set the price on Dunleavy. Along with Prince, Bobby Simmons also signed a 5 year/$47 mil deal.

C) Murphy, Richardson, and Foyle signed comparable deals last year given their respective levels of production. There's no way Mullin could have gotten away with lowballing Dunleavy.

Again, I'm not happy about Dunleavy getting that much, but it's really the market rate for him. The Warriors are certainly going to have salary cap/luxury tax problems the next couple of years and will probably have to let Pietrus and Zarko walk. And if Biedrins develops, they'll probably have to package a first rounder with Foyle to have room.

I know everyone here hoped the Warriors could keep all their guys together, and that if someone had to go, many would have prefered it be Dunleavy, but I don't think it was possible in today's market.

The good news is this: Mullin isn't really spending out of control. At least, not any more out of control than the rest of the GM's (btw, I always feel funny calling him the GM even though he isn't, but he's really the decision maker). That means the salary cap is going to keep going up and the luxury tax line is going to keep getting pushed back as well.

Just look at the '03 draft class: Lebron, Carmelo, Wade, Bosh will all get max deals. Hinrich, Ridnour, Kaman, and Josh Howard will all get at least as much as Dunleavy. Next year Dunleavy's deal is not going to look bad at all.</div>

Yeah, 9 mils really was a market price for Dunleavy, so that's why I expected 9 mils if he ever signed a contract. And, that's why I hope Mullin waits one more season, because I believed that both Dunleavy's value and market value were inflated, and we were destined to overpay Dunleavy. Now, Pietrus is basically gone, no matter what he does this season, and we will have to tear our young talents and picks to just get rid of bad contracts, if there is any taker.

Just because all GMs are overpaying, that doesn't mean luxury tax line will be pushed back, because luxury tax line only relates to the overall income of NBA. Unless overall income goes up significantly, luxury tax line will remain relatively same. I expect few mils increase, but that won't be anywhere near enough to cover our problem, because our existing salaries alone will increase 4 to 7 mils per year, meaning it's like signing MLE every year for next 4 years at least.

With current set up, we will most likely face luxury tax in next year, and it gets worse each year. Exactly how much luxury tax Cohan will pay?

Now, this year gets really important, because what we see is basically the best form we will see in next few years. Because of financial problem, we have to trade existing overpaid, yet still useful players + picks + promising rookie players to just to accept crappy player with ending contract. In other word, we will most likely sacrifice our depth to just stay afloat. But, we can escape upcoming doomsday if we can trade overpaid, yet still useful players + picks + promising rookies for superstars. It will take a miracle, but Mullin is blessed with the luck, since he was able to fry away Davis with only two expiring contracts. Let's see if Mullin can solve our problem with one swoop.

BTW, is our 6 men core the most expensive core in NBA?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">
Why do you guys even care how much? Its not your money.
</div>
I'm sorry, but thats just plain stupid.

So I guess we all should shut up about Fisher's fat contract, cause it's not our money. I guess we should stop caring, these fat contracts are limiting capspace preventing future possible signings, but it's not our money. If Dunleavy got signed 5 years 73 mil like Amare, would you care? Yes. Is it your money? No.

<font color="Red">EDIT: Please don't refer to comments as 'stupid'. State your opinion and then ask why the comment was

</font><div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">
Why do you guys even care how much? Its not your money.
</div>

<font color="Red">There's different point of views here and something is being miscommunicated or not explained entirely. Let's try to discuss difference of opinion without igniting a potential flame war amongst fans. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.</font>
<font color="Red">
</font>

 

Caron Butler just got 46 million over 5. Makes me feel a little better.

Somebody will get dealt by the deadline.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting philsmith75:</div><div class="quote_post">
It does not matter whether its basketball, football or baseball, the overriding mantra is "keep your own." Many fantasize about, "well what would ..... be like in our uniform." Well most successful teams win with their homegrown talent. Dunleavy is no different.

He's young, he did not get a max contract but is now locked up. Why do you guys even care how much? Its not your money.

He's only been in the league 3 years. He's someone who has always improved and played hard. Patience.</div>
Any basketball team would love to keep as many "home-grown" guys as they can, but there's a fine line between what the budget will allow, what fits on our team, and what roles the players want to have on this team. If it turns out there's a better guy for the SF position that can score and play defense and we locked up Dunleavy, well that's just a bad decision to pay a potential bench guy starter's money. We may never find the perfect fit for small forward to complement Jrich and Baron Davis, but there are reasonable solutions if we're trying to stay on budget and avoid getting stuck with player contracts that nobody else wants (We'd have to give up additional talent and draft picks to move somebody as overpaid bench guy and it's been rumored that more teams are asking about Pietrus than they are with Dunleavy).

So overall, fans do care about spending because there are certain limitations to how far an owner will spend to keep as many guys as they can and a GM needs to be able to find trade partners who are willing to take what we're no longer happy with. We'll also need to add/maintain talent if the guys being locked up already reach their ceiling (What about potential stars/important players like Diogu/Z/Pietrus/Biedrins?). What if Dunleavy isn't the guy we envisioned at 44 mil / 5 years? We could be winding up with an Austin Croshere type mistake...

 

Thanks custodian, you said it better than I did.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">Thanks custodian, you said it better than I did.</div>
It's all good. It's frustrating news, but things will work out. The thing about online forums is if you're new to it or the game of basketball, it's hard to really "relate" to what another person is "seeing" or thinking unless you take the time to ask why they think/see that. You can still disagree, but at least an idea isn't coming out of nowhere like "wtf" if it's explained from a point of view with some facts, some experience and some detail.

Just remember we're all here to communicate and learn/teach/comment/observe/support each other as Warriors fans and basketball fans. It's a consensus of ideas and as long as the dialogue is well explained, polite and well communicated, that's all that matters. Just ask questions. If there's a user that has a record of making senseless comments they'll be dealt with, but you and philsmith have historically been good posters here with intelligent discussion. I think there's just a communication problem.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">Caron Butler just got 46 million over 5. Makes me feel a little better.

Somebody will get dealt by the deadline.</div>

Hehe. They gave a fat contract without knowing whether Butler will fit into the system or not. Talk about taking a risk.

Well, we may try to move some players in deadline, but I think next offseason will be wild, because I believe Mullin will try to do as many shuffling as possible, trying to acquire something big. Besides Davis and Dunleavy, everybody will be available. I expect Mullin to offer Murphy and Pietrus as a basic deal, even Richardson can be dealt if necessary, and if we can take some taker for Fisher, that would be excellent...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Run BJM:</div><div class="quote_post">While this is possible the chances arent very high. I think we will see some decent improvement in Dunleavy after having seen what he did with Baron down the stretch, his added muscle, and his glimpses of brilliance in the preseason. Take into account that Dunleavy has got a new release on his shot and he has had a chance to gel with Baron and the rest of the team this offseason and I think that theres a fairly high chance that we will see noticable improvement.</div>
I'm not that unhappy about the Dunleavy situation, but I'm more concerned about Mullin and his choices. Can we sustain winning seasons longer than we have had losing seasons. I mean the Kings are a well managed organization considering where they are located. Same with the Pistons and Indiana to some extent and others.

What I meant about the Austin Croshere comment is that it was a player Larry Bird was trying to part with, but couldn't find any takers. Dunleavy has more dimensions to his game obviously, but it's really about what teams are interested in him. Most teams want solid scorers/defenders that can contribute night in and night out if they're going for role players.

I wasn't excited about Dunleavy's preseason performance, but more of what he did in the last few weeks of ball play last season. He also looked great in 2003-2004 with Erick Dampier in the middle and playing some point guard. I think Dunleavy is the most suitable guy to have set up the offense if Fisher is playing as a shooting guard masquerading as point guard. I guess that leaves little time for Zarko who I think could be a really good utility player if he can find the balance between speed, power and using his length, smartness and athleticism more.

 

Ndudi Ebi waived

I wonder if we can still sign Ndudi Ebi? Way inconsistent, but c'mon the guy never had much time to prove he can belong in the NBA. He sort of reminds me of Darius Miles as the athletic, shotblocking, midrange shooting, ballhandling type of player that can play either small forward or power forward (sometimes shooting guard or point guard at duty). Anybody know anything about this guy beyond that small observation made?

 

The A Croshere/D Fish mistake is a big concern to me. As we all have noticed,it is near impossible to find a good deal for Fisher. If Dunleavy gets beat out for the role,we paid him to not only start but have bet on substantial improvement. Several tade ideas were seen that basically used Dunleavy as bait to move Fisher...and the response was lukewarm. Now,if this $45 mill deal is true,Dunleavy is as untradable as Fish. Basically,Dunleavy needs to improve so much he is worth that type of deal. Good Luck,I hope that's the outcome. I still have hope KNBR got a bad lead,or that there is a master plan where we won't be saying bye bye to a bunch of our talent as we sink into a Knick style cap hell. Meanwhile I think it's time for some Whiskey.....straight.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">The A Croshere/D Fish mistake is a big concern to me. As we all have noticed,it is near impossible to find a good deal for Fisher. If Dunleavy gets beat out for the role,we paid him to not only start but have bet on substantial improvement. Several tade ideas were seen that basically used Dunleavy as bait to move Fisher...and the response was lukewarm. Now,if this $45 mill deal is true,Dunleavy is as untradable as Fish. Basically,Dunleavy needs to improve so much he is worth that type of deal. Good Luck,I hope that's the outcome. I still have hope KNBR got a bad lead,or that there is a master plan where we won't be saying bye bye to a bunch of our talent as we sink into a Knick style cap hell. Meanwhile I think it's time for some Whiskey.....straight.</div>

Well, I have a good news and a bad news.

Good news is that it's not 45 mils for 5 years.

Bad news is that it's 44 mils for 5 years.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2209616

Can you email some whiskey you are drinking?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kwan1031:</div><div class="quote_post">Hehe. They gave a fat contract without knowing whether Butler will fit into the system or not. Talk about taking a risk.

Well, we may try to move some players in deadline, but I think next offseason will be wild, because I believe Mullin will try to do as many shuffling as possible, trying to acquire something big. Besides Davis and Dunleavy, everybody will be available. I expect Mullin to offer Murphy and Pietrus as a basic deal, even Richardson can be dealt if necessary, and if we can take some taker for Fisher, that would be excellent...</div>
Caron Butler is okay... There's certain things about his game that stand out and others where you wonder why he couldn't be better. But yeah, I guess we're not seeing something these GM's are seeing or maybe everyone else is nuts.

I'm still wondering if the main problem with defense is really Dunleavy at all, but if it's Murphy. But that would be me doing an impersonation of Jim Barnett trying to find out who else besides Dunleavy is partly to blame for our poor D even in halfcourt. In '04, when Murphy was out hurt, it was clearly Dunleavy failing to stop somebody on his own and we had Cliff Robinson at PF and Erick Dampier inside at C.

I mean you play team D because a quick player always has that advantage of making the first move with or without the ball, but c'mon we have a bunch of nobodies going off against us at the small forward position and those guys don't need a whole lot of team defense to guard. Having Dunleavy or Murphy at those positions makes for a strong case that we need somebody like Cliff Robinson and Dampier inside and somebody better than Dunleavy on defense. Too many teams just find ways to exploit us by getting the slower perimeter guys to rotate on a strong, open jump shooter or against a dribble penetrator. It's no wonder the last thing we see before the other team's shot goes in is usually Dunleavy too late to contest or Murphy standing around to watch the layup go in. Jrich sometimes isn't any better on the defensive end, but at least he's done enough to show he's a star and impact player for this team.

I think part of the reason why Cliff Robinson got so down on Dunleavy on TV was that he kept getting blown by or burned from beyond the arc. It was very noticeable from a fan's perspective. Dunleavy professed it wasn't his fault he got beat or he probably made some claim that he had to help out elsewhere on the floor... I mean I trust what the defensive role playing vet is saying and what I'm actually seeing as the games is going on. The GM is obviously looking at Dunleavy as a favorite young player with upside and not really buying into what a respected veteran/captain is calling this guy out for. I think Dunleavy will always struggle on D against quicker players much like Fisher and it's going to suck quite a bit if the opposing small forward is doing a lot of the shooting or ballhandling. I think Dun can play defense against guys not that fast, but this is the new NBA. Why do we think scouts look at foreign talent all the time to get bigger, faster, more fundamentals and finesse? Dunleavy doesn't really play like a star, but a role player that just goes along for the ride. We might have just signed ourselves an overpaid role player if he doesn't take his game beyond what he is now.

 

Well...I was against this signing for 1 main reason. And it's not because I don't think Dunleavy will be worth it. There's just no reason to sign him now, when he won't be getting much more this offseason. The only way this contract looks good is if Dundun turns into Peja of 2 years ago this season. As for this:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm still wondering if the main problem with defense is really Dunleavy at all, but if it's Murphy. But that would be me doing an impersonation of Jim Barnett trying to find out who else besides Dunleavy is partly to blame for our poor D even in halfcourt. In '04, when Murphy was out hurt, it was clearly Dunleavy failing to stop somebody on his own and we had Cliff Robinson at PF and Erick Dampier inside at C.</div>

I've been preaching exactly that for a year. I think Murphy is the root of many of this team's problems. This time last year I was extra hard on JRich because of how often he used to hold on to the ball and dribble, forcing guys like Murphy and Dunleavy into bad shots at the end of the shot clock which reflected poorly on their FG %. Well, it actually turned out that Murphy staying stagnant was a bigger issue. Baron Davis, Jrich, and Dundun corrected the problem big time and Dunleavy really started moving well without the ball.

Also, Dunleavy's defense really improved lsat season. That's not saying much for how terrible he was in the years past, but he started playing team defense to make up for his individual defensive faults. That being said, Murphy looks a bit quicker than season's past as well, but I just don't think he has the focus to be a defender, he's always looking to add another rebound instead of helping out on D. I'm really hoping that ike helps out in this department. Ideally, we can find a guy like Tyrone Hill to back up Diougu and we can package Murphy and Fisher together at the allstar break. Someone in the mold of Hill would be the ideal player here, he could play D and hit that baseling 12-15 footer with regularity. (still dreaming of landing Camby, but It just doesn't seem like that'd happen...he'd be perfect)

I'm convinced by the all-star break, Miles may be ready to take the backup point guard role. of course, we'd have to get another PG with the Vet minimum. we'll see how it plays out. I still don't see this as doomsday. Mullin has so many trading pieces to play with. Sure we've grown attached to many of these young guys, but honestly, I think Mullin plans upgrade the 4 and or 5 by moving a couple of them to steal another malcontent off a struggling team. Only time will tell though.

 

This has got me so steamed. It is one thing to give Dun this type of deal next year if another team made the offer and we matched but to do this ahead of time when I think this is the MOST he could have commanded next year is ridiculous. What is Mullin thinking? Not only that but how many players are we going to give 5-6 year contracts to? I mean if this team does not make the playoffs, it means we will not make the playoffs for at least 5-6 more years. We are STUCK with this team unless we do some major salary dumping. I have never been a Dunleavy fan but recently he has at least shown some flashes, but it is so inconsistent! I am so mad. This makes me want to not be a Warriors fan again. But I have said this so many times it is not even worth the time I am taking to type this reply...