Knicks considering Stoudamire in off season: Article

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks have Tim Thomas and Penny Hardaway who both have expiring contracts. Why can't they use that in a sign and trade deal? Picks and young players for the likes of Ilgauskas, Curry, and Swift? I beg to differ. I doubt the Knicks need to, nor should give up young stars for temporary comfort. I don't think Swift and company would get that much money, but if they do, I would not want the Knicks to use their trading pawns on them. Since you suggested getting a center, anyone come to mind who we can use for the MLE?

Well as I said before, Hardaway can be gone after this season, so don?t count on him staying. Even if he?s still around, I think the main goal of the Knicks is to win. If the Knicks are wining, I don?t think that the distribution of minutes will be a huge factor. Adding Stoudamire will give us much depth at that position. Stoudamire can give us energy and a spark off the bench. If the experiment in Portland did not turn out well, what is the guarantee of it happening with the Knicks? Even if it doesn?t turn out well for the Knicks, we can easily trade him with a more than reasonable MLE contract. I see this being a move of depth that can easily be taken care of if it doesn?t turn out well. It seems like a win-win situation for the Knicks.</div>

Ummm...There really is no point to signing Stoudamire. You're right when you say it couldnt hurt but it really wont help either unless of course you want to make sure Ariza gets absolutely no playing time next season. Next season we'll have Marbury, Crawford, Houston and Hardaway at the guard positions. Ariza can play backup to TT and get some minutes there. If we get Stoudamire he'll be the back up point guard or shooting guard, Penny will be the back up small forward and Ariza will be a bench warmer. I'm sure you dont want that. Crawford will be that spark off the bench we need. Signing Stoudamire doesnt really make any sense since were more than solid in the backcourt.

 

If I were the Knicks I would look at Dale Davis, Zeljko Rebraca, Alonzo Mourning, Dan Gadzuric, Zaza Pachulia, Mark Madsen, Sam Dalembert and Jerome James. None of these guys are marquee players but could all be good for 20 minutes of hard work and in the cases of Davis, Rebraca, Mourning and Dalembert, 30 minutes and numbers in the 10/8 range. I'd say their size and defensive abilities would sure beat having 6-8 Kurt Thomas banging with the likes of Shaq and Ilgauskas in the East. Having a true center would somewhat help New York get away with little size at other positions.

And if you think Damon Stoudamire, he of 5 feet 10 inches and 32 years of age, would be a hot trade commodity on a MLE contract, you are seriously overestimating the scale on which trades are balanced in the NBA.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">If I were the Knicks I would look at Dale Davis, Zeljko Rebraca, Alonzo Mourning, Dan Gadzuric, Zaza Pachulia, Mark Madsen, Sam Dalembert and Jerome James. None of these guys are marquee players but could all be good for 20 minutes of hard work and in the cases of Davis, Rebraca, Mourning and Dalembert, 30 minutes and numbers in the 10/8 range. I'd say their size and defensive abilities would sure beat having 6-8 Kurt Thomas banging with the likes of Shaq and Ilgauskas in the East. Having a true center would somewhat help New York get away with little size at other positions.</div>
Madsen is 6'9 just like Kurt Thomas, and why would Mourning not re-sign with the Heat? Dalembert is a nice young player, why can't he get that same contract like Curry? The other guys are decent. Kurt Thomas at 6?9 is undersized, but he is a very good player and is quite solid. As I said before, they should be signed over Stoudamire.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And if you think Damon Stoudamire, he of 5 feet 10 inches and 32 years of age, would be a hot trade commodity on a MLE contract, you are seriously overestimating the scale on which trades are balanced in the NBA.</div>
If you have a decent point guard for only the MLE, I think it can be useful. This same point guard of 5 feet 10 inches and 32 years of age, managed to score 54 points this season. If you don?t think Damon Stoudamire could not be useful in a potential trade because of him being so inexpensive, than you are serious underrating the scale on which trades are balanced in the NBA.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Madsen is 6'9 just like Kurt Thomas, and why would Mourning not re-sign with the Heat? Dalembert is a nice young player, why can't he get that same contract like Curry? The other guys are decent. Kurt Thomas at 6?9 is undersized, but he is a very good player and is quite solid. As I said before, they should be signed over Stoudamire.</div>
I just listed the guys I think could be ideal for the Knicks and could come for around the MLE or less, as per your request. Whether they sign or not is out of my prediction.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you have a decent point guard for only the MLE, I think it can be useful. This same point guard of 5 feet 10 inches and 32 years of age, managed to score 54 points this season. If you don?t think Damon Stoudamire could not be useful in a potential trade because of him being so inexpensive, than you are serious underrating the scale on which trades are balanced in the NBA.</div>Let's say Stoudamire receives a three year, $15 million contract. That will be the same as Morris Peterson. Would anyone outside of Rob Babcock trade Mo Pete for Stoudamire?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">I just listed the guys I think could be ideal for the Knicks and could come for around the MLE or less, as per your request. Whether they sign or not is out of my prediction.</div>
Some of them such as Madsen would not be as ideal as you claim. How is Mark Madsen banging with some of the east?s elite any different from Kurt Thomas?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's say Stoudamire receives a three year, $15 million contract. That will be the same as Morris Peterson. Would anyone outside of Rob Babcock trade Mo Pete for Stoudamire?</div>
Let?s say Stoudamire signs a 1 year 4 million dollar contract. Even if he signed a contract like that, who said the trade has to be straight up?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Some of them such as Madsen would not be as ideal as you claim. How is Mark Madsen banging with some of the east?s elite any different from Kurt Thomas?


Let?s say Stoudamire signs a 1 year 4 million dollar contract. Even if he signed a contract like that, who said the trade has to be straight up?</div>
Mark Madsen would probably come for cheap, and as I said before, could be good for 20 minutes of hard work. You could use the money left over from signing Madsen to sign someone like Pachulia, Gadzuric or James to round out your center position.

As for Stoudamire, I doubt he would settle for a one year contract at his age. Long term security is what players in their 30's go after, and I don't think that Stoudamire would settle for such a pitiful contract even from someone like Thomas when he could probably get longer-term and bigger contracts from teams wanting some experience and shooting at point guard. After all, like you said, he once scored 54 points this season.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Mark Madsen would probably come for cheap, and as I said before, could be good for 20 minutes of hard work. You could use the money left over from signing Madsen to sign someone like Pachulia, Gadzuric or James to round out your center position.</div>
How will he help our center position that much. He is undersized and is not even a center in which we need so desperately to quote you. I doubt there would be enough money left over to sign two of these players splitting just a $4.9 million MLE like you said.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Stoudamire, I doubt he would settle for a one year contract at his age. Long term security is what players in their 30's go after, and I don't think that Stoudamire would settle for such a pitiful contract even from someone like Thomas when he could probably get longer-term and bigger contracts from teams wanting some experience and shooting at point guard. After all, like you said, he once scored 54 points this season.</div>
Maybe not one, but maybe two years. I mean he only is 5 feet and 10 inches and 32 years old. The Knicks can get him cheaply and for a short period of time and if it doesn?t work out, what will the problem be? We have absolutely nothing to lose.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How will he help our center position that much. He is undersized and is not even a center in which we need so desperately to quote you. I doubt there would be enough money left over to sign two of these players splitting just a $4.9 million MLE like you said.
</div>Yeah, Madsen isn't a true center, but he'll do in the East. He's more of a traditional center than Kurt Thomas is. And btw, it isn't likely that someone like Jerome James, Pachulia or Gadzuric would get a contract any bigger than $3 mil per year. They aren't high-profile free agents.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Maybe not one, but maybe two years. I mean he only is 5 feet and 10 inches and 32 years old. The Knicks can get him cheaply and for a short period of time and if it doesn?t work out, what will the problem be? We have absolutely nothing to lose.</div>You have a whole season to lose if this "experiment" doesn't work out. You might also lose important development time for young players, especially Ariza whose minutes would be cut if Damon is signed and Hardaway moves to small forward. And it's not very easy to move a guy like Hardaway because no one would want to take on his $12 million even if he has an expiring contract. The Knicks would have to take back a lot in salaries if the other team's motive is a salary dump.

As for Stoudamire's contract, I would be willing to wager a sig bet that he would sign a contract at least three years in length. Willing to take me on?

 

lets go

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">You have a whole season to lose if this "experiment" doesn't work out. You might also lose important development time for young players, especially Ariza whose minutes would be cut if Damon is signed and Hardaway moves to small forward. And it's not very easy to move a guy like Hardaway because no one would want to take on his $12 million even if he has an expiring contract. The Knicks would have to take back a lot in salaries if the other team's motive is a salary dump.</div>
Why not? the point of the potential trade would be for the other team to be able to clear up 12 million dollars. The bigger the contract the better it is for the other team. The knicks could get another huge contract, a talanted problamatic player (Rasheed, Artest) a talented injury prone player (BDiddy) or an aging good player.

 

Hell no, why would the knicks want Damon, they got Marbury and Crawford, and common they got to PGs, LEAVE DAMON IN PORTLAND. The thing also i dont see how he can be helpfull to the knicks who have "the best pointguard in the league" I mean they just gonna fight over minutes odds are the management is gonna grant marbury the benefit of the doubt, and damon is not ready to take a second role just yet.

 

"lets go" haha!

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">Why not? the point of the potential trade would be for the other team to be able to clear up 12 million dollars. The bigger the contract the better it is for the other team. The knicks could get another huge contract, a talanted problamatic player (Rasheed, Artest) a talented injury prone player (BDiddy) or an aging good player.</div>Would that sort of trade be good for the Knicks though? New York would probably have to take on a Chris Webber type contract, maybe one that is even bigger than Hardaway's. I'm not sure on the Knicks standpoint, but 25 teams in the league would not do that sort of trade, giving up future cap space for aging, declining players. You're actually talking about that sort of trade as a good thing. If you do get such a big contract, say bye to whatever cap you might want for the next ten years as the contracts of Houston, Marbury, Crawford, upcoming extension for Sweetney and whoever you get will paralyze you.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, Madsen isn't a true center, but he'll do in the East. He's more of a traditional center than Kurt Thomas is. And btw, it isn't likely that someone like Jerome James, Pachulia or Gadzuric would get a contract any bigger than $3 mil per year. They aren't high-profile free agents.</div>
Kurt Thomas is the same height as Madsen and is better offensively and defensively than Madsen. I don't want a "traditional" center. I want an effective one and frankly, Madsen isn't more effective than anyone that you listed. They might not be "high-profile free agents", but they are difference makers.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You have a whole season to lose if this "experiment" doesn't work out. You might also lose important development time for young players, especially Ariza whose minutes would be cut if Damon is signed and Hardaway moves to small forward. And it's not very easy to move a guy like Hardaway because no one would want to take on his $12 million even if he has an expiring contract. The Knicks would have to take back a lot in salaries if the other team's motive is a salary dump.</div>
What do we have to lose? You yourself said "Yeah, wouldn't hurt." so I don't know how we would be sacrificing our season like you said. I don't see how a 12 million dollar expiring contract and a 14 million one (correct me if I'm wrong) with Tim Thomas will be extremely challenging to move. Why can't the Knicks take an expiring contract back like the Hawks/Pistons deadline move? Also a sign and trade for a nice young talent can also work as well. Damon will get his share and as I said before, if the Knicks are wining, it's most likely all good.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Stoudamire's contract, I would be willing to wager a sig bet that he would sign a contract at least three years in length. Willing to take me on?</div>
Thanks for the offer but...no thanks.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Kurt Thomas is the same height as Madsen and is better offensively and defensively than Madsen. I don't want a "traditional" center. I want an effective one and frankly, Madsen isn't more effective than anyone that you listed. They might not be "high-profile free agents", but they are difference makers.
</div>Did I say he was more effective? I just listed him as a guy the Knicks could look at getting for cheap. I didn't say he would be a top choice, but at least better than wasting a MLE on a guy you wouldn't need in Stoudamire.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
What do we have to lose? You yourself said "Yeah, wouldn't hurt." so I don't know how we would be sacrificing our season like you said. I don't see how a 12 million dollar expiring contract and a 14 million one (correct me if I'm wrong) with Tim Thomas will be extremely challenging to move. Why can't the Knicks take an expiring contract back like the Hawks/Pistons deadline move? Also a sign and trade for a nice young talent can also work as well. Damon will get his share and as I said before, if the Knicks are wining, it's most likely all good.</div>"Yeah, wouldn't hurt". Maybe you didn't get me, but it was sarcasm. The Knicks could basically tank their whole season if you get playing time issues at one of the most important positions on a team. Trading Hardaway and Thomas might look easy, but how often do these trades happen, when you see a guy with a huge expiring contract and not a whole lot to offer get traded for someone with a bright future or a bona fide star? Thomas and Hardaway wouldn't get you a lot, maybe picks and an over-the-hill star. Would the Knicks benefit from such a trade in the long run, barring some very good picks with the draft choices?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Thanks for the offer but...no thanks.</div>Thought so.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Did I say he was more effective? I just listed him as a guy the Knicks could look at getting for cheap. I didn't say he would be a top choice, but at least better than wasting a MLE on a guy you wouldn't need in Stoudamire.</div>
I never said you did say more effective. You mentioned banging with top centers in the east when Kurt Thomas is the same way. We would need Madsen less than Stoudamire. Why sign yet another PF? You're the one talking about creating a glut and adding a 6th power forward who can play undersized center would not help at all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Yeah, wouldn't hurt". Maybe you didn't get me, but it was sarcasm. The Knicks could basically tank their whole season if you get playing time issues at one of the most important positions on a team. Trading Hardaway and Thomas might look easy, but how often do these trades happen, when you see a guy with a huge expiring contract and not a whole lot to offer get traded for someone with a bright future or a bona fide star? Thomas and Hardaway wouldn't get you a lot, maybe picks and an over-the-hill star. Would the Knicks benefit from such a trade in the long run, barring some very good picks with the draft choices?
</div>
Why can't Stoudamire play backup PG? He will probably not be getting 30 minutes a game, but he will get his share. I don't think the Knicks will simply giveup the season because Stoudamire isn't happy with his minutes. I see trades happen like this frequently. The Warriors got Baron Davis with those expiring contracts and the team has been amazing as of late! The Knicks can make a run at possibly someone like Artest with all his problems he's having with those. Maybe they can get a first rounder or a couple of second rounders with them. Yeah, they would be a better team with some quality picks and draft choices.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thought so.</div>
Thought so what? I'm not Damon Stoudamire and I don't know what he's thinking? Are you willing to place a bet that the Rockets won't make it out the first round?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
I never said you did say more effective. You mentioned banging with top centers in the east when Kurt Thomas is the same way. We would need Madsen less than Stoudamire. Why sign yet another PF? You're the one talking about creating a glut and adding a 6th power forward who can play undersized center would not help at all.</div>What you'll need is someone who can bang with centers in the East, pure and simple. You're saying that Madsen would be no more help than Kurt Thomas, but besides Kurt Thomas, who do you have backing him up at center? I would rather have Madsen at center rather than Jerome Williams or Mo Taylor.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Why can't Stoudamire play backup PG? He will probably not be getting 30 minutes a game, but he will get his share. I don't think the Knicks will simply giveup the season because Stoudamire isn't happy with his minutes. I see trades happen like this frequently. The Warriors got Baron Davis with those expiring contracts and the team has been amazing as of late! The Knicks can make a run at possibly someone like Artest with all his problems he's having with those. Maybe they can get a first rounder or a couple of second rounders with them. Yeah, they would be a better team with some quality picks and draft choices.</div>Did I say Stoudamire can't play backup PG? What I'm saying is that there won't be enough minutes to go around. Marbury would get at least 35 minutes per game, correct? Crawford at least 33 right? That takes out 78 minutes of the possible 96 minutes in the backcourt that Stoudamire, Houston, Hardaway and Jermaine Jackson would have to salvage. All these players, with the exception of Jackson, would want at least 20 minutes per game if not more. Hardaway could play small forward, you might argue, but wouldn't that mean cutting Ariza's minutes? Having this sort of backcourt rotation would give you a very good backcourt, but a lot of egos and bad blood.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Thought so what? I'm not Damon Stoudamire and I don't know what he's thinking? Are you willing to place a bet that the Rockets won't make it out the first round?</div>Yeah. I'll bet that. I don't have any high hopes for the Rockets this year in the playoffs. Just being realistic.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">What you'll need is someone who can bang with centers in the East, pure and simple. You're saying that Madsen would be no more help than Kurt Thomas, but besides Kurt Thomas, who do you have backing him up at center? I would rather have Madsen at center rather than Jerome Williams or Mo Taylor.</div>
Why do we need Madsen banging with centers in the east? I don't understand how that is a necessity. I'd rather have undersized Malik Rose backing up Rose. Also our draft pick will more than likely be a big man. I'd choose him over Madsen.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did I say Stoudamire can't play backup PG? What I'm saying is that there won't be enough minutes to go around. Marbury would get at least 35 minutes per game, correct? Crawford at least 33 right? That takes out 78 minutes of the possible 96 minutes in the backcourt that Stoudamire, Houston, Hardaway and Jermaine Jackson would have to salvage. All these players, with the exception of Jackson, would want at least 20 minutes per game if not more. Hardaway could play small forward, you might argue, but wouldn't that mean cutting Ariza's minutes? Having this sort of backcourt rotation would give you a very good backcourt, but a lot of egos and bad blood.</div>
Rather than calculating their minutes, did you ever think maybe they won't get as many minutes because Damon would help them so much? The main agenda is to get a win and Marbury has said it himself. He said the more important thing is the W rather than how many minutes I play. I see this move simply adding depth to the Knicks backcourt.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why do we need Madsen banging with centers in the east? I don't understand how that is a necessity. I'd rather have undersized Malik Rose backing up Rose. Also our draft pick will more than likely be a big man. I'd choose him over Madsen.</div>Draft picks aside, Madsen would be a very solid addition. And Rose backing up Rose? I think you meant to say Thomas.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Rather than calculating their minutes, did you ever think maybe they won't get as many minutes because Damon would help them so much? The main agenda is to get a win and Marbury has said it himself. He said the more important thing is the W rather than how many minutes I play. I see this move simply adding depth to the Knicks backcourt.</div>Marbury and Crawford are getting 40 and 38 minutes, respectatively. I'd already cut their projected minutes for next season. Marbury might say that it's alright for him to lose minutes in exchange for wins, but would he be alright with 25 minutes a game? Would Crawford be happy getting 25? These guys will not be satisfied with their burn, and would eventually cry about their minutes and demand trades. If you had a guy like Anthony Johnson, he wouldn't complain about lack of burn as he's been there and knows his capabilities, but with guys like Marbury and Crawford who are stars and who presumably have star egos, you'll get unhappy players within a month of cut minutes.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Draft picks aside, Madsen would be a very solid addition. And Rose backing up Rose? I think you meant to say Thomas.</div>
Madsen is not a better acquisition than Stoudamire

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury and Crawford are getting 40 and 38 minutes, respectatively. I'd already cut their projected minutes for next season. Marbury might say that it's alright for him to lose minutes in exchange for wins, but would he be alright with 25 minutes a game? Would Crawford be happy getting 25? These guys will not be satisfied with their burn, and would eventually cry about their minutes and demand trades. If you had a guy like Anthony Johnson, he wouldn't complain about lack of burn as he's been there and knows his capabilities, but with guys like Marbury and Crawford who are stars and who presumably have star egos, you'll get unhappy players within a month of cut minutes.</div>
No, Marbury has said the most important thing is getting a victory before the season started. Also this season is a perfect example to Marbury and Crawford wining is the most important thing. If the Knicks are playing good baskerball and are in the playoff picture and have the oppourtunity to male some noise, I don't see anyone complaining about time.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Madsen is not a better acquisition than Stoudamire</div>Talent-wise, no. Need and position-wise, definitely. You don't need Stoudamire. You need someone who could at least bolster your weak center position and size.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, Marbury has said the most important thing is getting a victory before the season started. Also this season is a perfect example to Marbury and Crawford wining is the most important thing. If the Knicks are playing good baskerball and are in the playoff picture and have the oppourtunity to male some noise, I don't see anyone complaining about time.</div>That's just naive thinking. It's easy for Marbury to say that when he has never tasted getting 20 minutes a game. He's a star in the league, and I doubt he would do with less shots, less assists and less playing time even if his team is winning. That would take a lot of maturity and is mostly only in the case of veterans, not in the case of Marbury who is in his prime. It's almost a guarantee that Marbury would not do with anything less than 30 minutes per game.

 

I'll discuss this later (tommorow) I have to be leave. Peace.