<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">We're still in the mix for Curry, only this time the Bulls are trying to get a first rounder out of us. I don't know if I'll be willing to deal a first rounder to the Bulls even if it is probably in the 28-30 range. I think we're giving up way too much for Curry. Sweetney - a player arguably as good as Curry - is just as bad to give up. Now we need to give up a 13 million dollar expiring contract AND a first round pick? I don't know about that. I know this year's draft isn't as deep as last year's, but there's always a chance of slipping going on. If we give up a first rounder, I think we should take away Sweetey.</div> A few corrections: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"Paxson said he was never offered a package of Tim Thomas and Michael Sweetney for Curry, which was reported in the New York Post. Such a trade would not work under salary-cap rules without the Bulls adding two players to the mix. The Knicks don?t have many desirable players or contracts to trade.</div> and <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"The holdup in a Knick-Bull deal is the Bulls' refusal to take one of the Knicks' two first-round picks next year. The Bulls prefer a young player added to the package, such as David Lee or Trevor Ariza." New York Post</div> It is the opposite of what you said, WE want to give up the first rounder but they don't want it. http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
Thanks for correcting me, JWohl. It's just as bad, though. If we have to give up two of our young players, and an expiring contract, it won't be worth. We should just call the deal off.
If we have to trade Ariza - I definitely don't want to pull the trigger. I was all for the TT/Sweetney package. I've finally given up the idea that Sweetney will be a really good NBA player- he'll be a solid back-up, undersized 4, but he's no Elton Brand - that's for sure. Curry's upside is tremendous and Larry could work wonders with him, getting rid of TT's conract this early isn't the best, but I'd like for a Sweetney/TT for Curry trade to happen. If we have to give draft pick or Ariza, I'm completely against it though.
You'd rather give up a forward that can average double digits in rebounding and post up nearly every single powerforward in the league than a small forward that has great athleticism but little to no skills? I dont follow your line of thinking. Sweetney is nearly twice the rebounder that Curry is. He doesnt have the same work ethic issues-before Curry's contract year he was a huge fat disappointment- and he doesnt have heart problems. Sweetney hasnt even gotten a chance to play his normal position just yet so how can you be so certain that he'll only be a "solid" back up? I wouldnt be happy with trading just Sweetney for Curry let alone throwing in an expiring contract and David Lee. We'll especially need Sweetney's rebounding if we do get Curry since Baby Shaq is a poor rebounder along with Jerome James. The Knicks should be looking to trade TT, Frye and Ariza. That sounds fair to both sides. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">You'd rather give up a forward that can average double digits in rebounding and post up nearly every single powerforward in the league than a small forward that has great athleticism but little to no skills? I dont follow your line of thinking. Sweetney is nearly twice the rebounder that Curry is. He doesnt have the same work ethic issues-before Curry's contract year he was a huge fat disappointment- and he doesnt have heart problems. Sweetney hasnt even gotten a chance to play his normal position just yet so how can you be so certain that he'll only be a "solid" back up? I wouldnt be happy with trading just Sweetney for Curry let alone throwing in an expiring contract and David Lee. We'll especially need Sweetney's rebounding if we do get Curry since Baby Shaq is a poor rebounder along with Jerome James. The Knicks should be looking to trade TT, Frye and Ariza. That sounds fair to both sides. </div> Sweetney got some good minutes off the bench for the Knicks - he didn't show up too much this year. He also didn't play against the other team's first unit all the time - still he had problems with fouling, lack of awareness, etc. He looked lost at some points. Sure, his footwork was strong, and he rebounded well. But have we even seen him play a lot of the game? No. Not even after we traded Nazr and KT shifted to the 5. Why? We don't know for sure - maybe he's incapable of playing start-minutes. We have no idea. Curry could explode under Brown and Aguirre, Sweetney has been good under Aguirre - but how can you solve his stamina problem? Work ethic? Curry will have to work under LB, that's for sure. Ariza has so much value in that he's a great defender, he's quick, explosive, developing - has a good work ethic, and younger than Sweetney. Also, LB loves long 2's and 3's - Ariza is long.
I think Sweetney's problems are his height and his weight. He needs to lose weight and gain muscle to be more fit to play 30-35 minutes. Thats why he needs to work out with Aguirre. I think Sweetney is more talented then we think.
No doubt, skillzmeister. If Sweets can lose weight and put more muscle on, then I would not want to trade him. As of right now, he hasn't really done that completley, and it's been three years - that's why I wouldn't mind trading him. Tribute, if he would lose weight and gain muscle (giving him more stamina), I'd be all over Sweetney. Everyone knows how much I love him - I've loved him from his first game. Just if he's not gonna get to it, let's get rid of him while teams still consider him [pretty] valuable.
I think Isiah and corporated are going 2 see how Sweetz deals with a starting job for the first half of the season. They want to see his potential and his talent. If Sweets is gonna stay a knick then he has to impress now. We cant have him getting into foul trouble and having us playing our undersized PF like Malik and Taylor. We also can't see him huffing and puffing in the 4th when the game is on the line.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney got some good minutes off the bench for the Knicks - he didn't show up too much this year. He also didn't play against the other team's first unit all the time - still he had problems with fouling, lack of awareness, etc. He looked lost at some points. Sure, his footwork was strong, and he rebounded well. But have we even seen him play a lot of the game? No. Not even after we traded Nazr and KT shifted to the 5. Why? We don't know for sure - maybe he's incapable of playing start-minutes. We have no idea. Curry could explode under Brown and Aguirre, Sweetney has been good under Aguirre - but how can you solve his stamina problem? Work ethic? Curry will have to work under LB, that's for sure. Ariza has so much value in that he's a great defender, he's quick, explosive, developing - has a good work ethic, and younger than Sweetney. Also, LB loves long 2's and 3's - Ariza is long.</div> You do realize this was Sweetney's second year in the NBA dont you? Do you also realize this was his first year actually playing consistent minutes? It's not unusual for a relatively young player to come off the bench especially behind a seasoned veteran that averages a double double. It's also not unusual for a young to be foul prone. Kurt Thomas was extremely foul prone when he was younger. You're talking as if he's been in the NBA for four seasons like Curry and hasnt improved. It's his first year getting consistent minutes cut him some slack. Stamina problem? There is nothing that suggests he has a stamina problem. I think in a couple of the Knicks-Bulls game Sweetney got 30 minutes and held his own if not outright outplay Curry. Just because he didnt play alot of minutes doesnt mean he cant. You yourself have no idea if he has a stamina issue. But the way he runs up and down the floor to post up in transition leads me to believe he doesnt. Even if he did have a stamina problem-and from the looks of it he doesnt- that would be an easy problem to solve. Curry explode under Larry Brown and Agguire? Yeah right. More likely Larry Brown would demand Curry to be traded for his weak defense, worse rebounding and overall lack of effort. And why would Curry be motivated to work for Larry Brown if he has a big, fat contract? He has his money already what more does he need? Do you also think Kwame Brown is going to work under Phil Jackson? Ariza is very athletic but still relatively unskilled. It would be alot easier for Sweetney to solve his "stamina problem" than for Ariza to develop the skills necessary to be a good player. Larry Brown loves hard working bigs with a nose for the ball and good low post skills. Good bigs are also hard to come by whereas unskilled athletic small forwards arent. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">You do realize this was Sweetney's second year in the NBA dont you? Do you also realize this was his first year actually playing consistent minutes? It's not unusual for a relatively young player to come off the bench especially behind a seasoned veteran that averages a double double. It's also not unusual for a young to be foul prone. Kurt Thomas was extremely foul prone when he was younger. You're talking as if he's been in the NBA for four seasons like Curry and hasnt improved. It's his first year getting consistent minutes cut him some slack. Stamina problem? There is nothing that suggests he has a stamina problem. I think in a couple of the Knicks-Bulls game Sweetney got 30 minutes and held his own if not outright outplay Curry. Just because he didnt play alot of minutes doesnt mean he cant. You yourself have no idea if he has a stamina issue. But the way he runs up and down the floor to post up in transition leads me to believe he doesnt. Even if he did have a stamina problem-and from the looks of it he doesnt- that would be an easy problem to solve. Curry explode under Larry Brown and Agguire? Yeah right. More likely Larry Brown would demand Curry to be traded for his weak defense, worse rebounding and overall lack of effort. And why would Curry be motivated to work for Larry Brown if he has a big, fat contract? He has his money already what more does he need? Do you also think Kwame Brown is going to work under Phil Jackson? Ariza is very athletic but still relatively unskilled. It would be alot easier for Sweetney to solve his "stamina problem" than for Ariza to develop the skills necessary to be a good player. Larry Brown loves hard working bigs with a nose for the ball and good low post skills. Good bigs are also hard to come by whereas unskilled athletic small forwards arent. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div> Last year was Sweetney's chance to step it up, he didn't. Perio. Stamina problem? Yeah,that's right. You know it's there, why deny it? He slowed down in games - clearly. He started chugging after about 16 minutes on the court - I mean really chugging. If you couldn't detect some sort of stamina problem, then you weren't looking for any negatives at all in Sweetney last year. Sweetney runs up and down, but fades in and out after 15 minutes! Sweetney really showed little to no signs of improvement last season! I realize it's his second year, but he was supposedly working like a machine all of that summer - it didn't do anything for him. Larry Brown likes hard working guys, but he doesn't like to see players run out of gas - Sweetney runs out after 15-20 minutes. Ariza is an energizer bunny. Larry would seriously help Curry. Your argument is that he would demand that he get traded - Larry will bring out the best in Curry, if there's one coach that could inspire Curry to hustle, it's Larry B. And that coupled with Aguirre! Curry is fast for a five, Aguirre could really help him take it to the next level. Larry would immediately realize the potential in Curry, he'd get him to play his best game. Much like he did with Prince and Billups in Detroit. Billups wasn't a really good defender before Larry, now he's one of the best defensive PG's in the game. Rip wasn't a good defender, under Larry he got to be a real pest on defense. We disagree, neither one of us will convince the other. I think I'm rigth, you think you're right. Let's just move on. There's nom point, I see that Sweetney slowed down after a little bit - this after all of his work in summer, you didn't see that at all. Oh well, can't agree on everything.
I think Ariza has a better future than Sweetney does. He really impressed alot of people. He can fly and he can play defense and steal the ball. This year he probably worked out shot more. Ariza can be new york's future if he works hard enough. Im excited for Ariza and so for Sweetney. Sweetney does have to become more fit to be in the game come 3rd and 4th quarter. I would trade Sweetz, although i want to see how he does in his starting job.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then Knicks Analyst. You were going to be wrong about something sooner or later but it was a great run. My point simply was it is far too soon to judge Sweetney. True low post big men typically take longer to fully develop and it's too early to say how good he will be. It was his first year getting quality minutes and he didnt do too bad with the amount of minutes he was given. In fact his numbers are comparable to Kevin Garnett, Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry when they got about the same amount of minutes. I'm guessing you would have given up on all of them too and traded them. I suppose we just have different ways of judging players. I like to give them a chance and see what their made of but if they dont live up to nearly impossible expectations when they first start playing you're ready to pack them up. A difference of philosophies I guess. By the way Sweetney looked mighty sharp against the Pacers when he played 37 minutes and won the game for us. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting GotSkillz92:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Ariza has a better future than Sweetney does. He really impressed alot of people. He can fly and he can play defense and steal the ball. This year he probably worked out shot more. Ariza can be new york's future if he works hard enough. Im excited for Ariza and so for Sweetney. Sweetney does have to become more fit to be in the game come 3rd and 4th quarter. I would trade Sweetz, although i want to see how he does in his starting job.</div> I dont follow how impressing alot of people equals "better future than Sweetney". He was a second round pick of course he impressed alot of people. A second round pick even making the team is impressive in itself. Ariza has a long way to go with his jumper and ball handling skills but he can be a good player. Sweetney on the other hand is a prototypical powerforward that can post up nearly every powerforward in the league. The fact that he's a low post scorer makes him more valuable than Ariza. Dont get me wrong. Ariza will be a nice player but you can build your entire team around a good low post player. But it doesnt really matter. The Bulls will be happy to take David Lee instead of Sweetney or Ariza for Curry. I'd prefer to give up Frye but I'd be willing to part ways with the Knicks best draft pick David Lee to get Curry. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then Knicks Analyst. You were going to be wrong about something sooner or later but it was a great run. My point simply was it is far too soon to judge Sweetney. True low post big men typically take longer to fully develop and it's too early to say how good he will be. It was his first year getting quality minutes and he didnt do too bad with the amount of minutes he was given. In fact his numbers are comparable to Kevin Garnett, Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry when they got about the same amount of minutes. I'm guessing you would have given up on all of them too and traded them. I suppose we just have different ways of judging players. I like to give them a chance and see what their made of but if they dont live up to nearly impossible expectations when they first start playing you're ready to pack them up. A difference of philosophies I guess. By the way Sweetney looked mighty sharp against the Pacers when he played 37 minutes and won the game for us. </div> That would apply in most cases - generally I'm all for giving a guy a second chance. But the fact of the matter is, Sweetney is a tad bit chubby - and he hasn't lost all that much weight. He is also undersized at the 4, he's listed at 6-8, but he looks more like a 6-7 guy. Just look at him next to Malik, Malik is listed at 6-7, but is clearly more likle 6-6. And Sweetney really looks only a little taller than him. I like Butler too, I would love to see Butler and Curry on the floor together. If Butler develops like he should under LB and Aguirre, then I wouldn't mind keeping Sweetney. Sweetney's stats may be beefy and attractive considering his little playing time, but I think that there's a reason why Herb didn't play him for 30-35 minutes after Nazr was traded. Just me though, I think that if Isiah felt that Sweetney was capable he would've stepped in and told Herb that. Seems like Isiah never interfered, maybe they know something we don't - maybe Sweetney isn't part of the Knicks system in the sense of him playing 30+ minutes. That's how I see it, I don't see why they wouldn't have played him for longer than they did, I think that there's a legitimate reason behind it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">That would apply in most cases - generally I'm all for giving a guy a second chance. But the fact of the matter is, Sweetney is a tad bit chubby - and he hasn't lost all that much weight. He is also undersized at the 4, he's listed at 6-8, but he looks more like a 6-7 guy. Just look at him next to Malik, Malik is listed at 6-7, but is clearly more likle 6-6. And Sweetney really looks only a little taller than him. I like Butler too, I would love to see Butler and Curry on the floor together. If Butler develops like he should under LB and Aguirre, then I wouldn't mind keeping Sweetney. Sweetney's stats may be beefy and attractive considering his little playing time, but I think that there's a reason why Herb didn't play him for 30-35 minutes after Nazr was traded. Just me though, I think that if Isiah felt that Sweetney was capable he would've stepped in and told Herb that. Seems like Isiah never interfered, maybe they know something we don't - maybe Sweetney isn't part of the Knicks system in the sense of him playing 30+ minutes. That's how I see it, I don't see why they wouldn't have played him for longer than they did, I think that there's a legitimate reason behind it.</div> Second chance? How about a first chance first? If Sweetney has a serious weight problem it certainly isnt affecting his game play. He's pretty active and mobile for someone who's a "tad bit chubby". By the way muscle weighs more than fat so he could end up weighing even more this year than ever before. Now you're complaining about his height? First of all saying Sweetney is 6'8" is an unfounded assumption. Now you're just plain reaching to find faults. Second of all who cares if he's 6'8" or 6'7"? Kurt Thomas was a bit undersized at 6'9" as is Carlos Boozer. Elton Brand is undersized at 6'8". Charles Barkley when he played was in reality about 6'4". Dave Debusschere was also undersized. All of these players turned out to be pretty good rebounders. On the other hand Eddy Curry is 6'11" and is a poor rebounder. I dont care about his height. All I care about is what he can do on the floor. And so far his height whatever it may be hasnt proved to be a serious hindrance so it's not an issue. Please dont mention Butler. I wasnt too impressed with him during the Summer League. Until he shows me something then I really dont care what's going on with an undrafted player. Sweetney's stats arent just beefy with the little amount of playing time he got. Their pretty much identical stats as Garnett's, Randolph's and Curry's right down to the very minutes. Would you have thought there was something wrong with those players? Would you have condemned them as nothing more than career reserves and traded them? Just because Herb Williams didnt give Sweetney more than 30 minutes per game doesnt mean anything although I suspect it was due in large part to Sweetney's tendency to pick up fouls in bunches. Primo Brezec and Jermaine O'neal got absolutely no minutes on their teams then they moved on to another team that gave them minutes and they flourished. There is no reason not to think that Sweetney wouldnt do the same. I repeat just because a player doesnt get alot of minutes says nothing. You think Isiah would step and intervene if he felt Sweetney deserved more minutes? I think Isiah Thomas is an idiot who cant do anything right. He cant trade, he cant draft, he cant coach so I dont expect him to do anything intelligent when it comes to Sweetney either. Isiah is probably shopping Sweetney around simply because he's a holdover from Layden's era. Anyway I give you stats, facts and examples. You start nit picking at Sweetney's height and give me "I think that there's a reason why Herb didn't play him for 30-35 minutes" when there could be no reason at all other than letting Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor get some floor time so they dont feel bad. It's ok though. You cant be right all the time. Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.
Sweetney and Thomas for Curry is a fair deal for both sides, in my opinion. I love Sweetney’s game and his work ethic, but Curry does have great potential and that for a center is valuable. I personally might not unload Sweetney for Curry, but if Sweetney were dealt for him, I wouldn’t be too upset; what I don’t like is handing over our draft picks and/or Ariza/Lee. That’s just pushing it. Curry could be good, but he’s not that valuable.
There's rumors that Pargo might also be coming in that deal. I think if Pargo is in it then we should add Lee or Ariza.
Is this official??? On RealGM it says we got Curry? They do tend to lie sometimes, but still check it out. Remember they did report the Q trade first. http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/374...cks_land_curry/
It looks like the knicks got curry. Its on bulls.com also. I wonder who's in the trade. This is a very good move for the knicks. We're getting more size now.
