Thing is, Melo did not need to stick up for JR in that situation. He and Mardy began their own situation when JR/Nate went into the crowd. So he made it his own agenda at the time. Then decided to take a slap at Mardy when he had walked away already. It was stupid by Melo and afterwards I believe he tried to get away from the situation. I do not think after watching it, Melo ran away from Jefferies. He took his shot, then tried to leave. That's how I see it. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>When you are in a fight like last night, the players arent going to be thinking, "hey, I am going to get suspended". They are thinking that they need to protect their teammattes.</div>You can protect players by simply stopping it between the starters. Melo, Nate, JR, Mardy obviously don't surprize me as guys who do not know when to keep their cool. All are known to have attitude problems. They escalated the situation instead of keeping it at bay like Lee, Najera, Jefferies seemed to be doing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Dec 17 2006, 06:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You can protect players by simply stopping it between the starters. Melo, Nate, JR, Mardy obviously don't surprize me as guys who do not know when to keep their cool. All are known to have attitude problems. They escalated the situation instead of keeping it at bay like Lee, Najera, Jefferies seemed to be doing.</div>Do you think that if you got pulled down to the ground by your neck, that you would just get up and act like nothing happenned. I think that alot of players in the league would have reacted the same exact way that JR did. You have to protect yourself when somebody tries to intentionally hurt you. Also, by simply stopping JR from getting in to a fight wouldnt really show him that you are behind him. Smith already started to get in to it, so Carmelo jumped in and fought with him. Alot of teammattes would do the same exact thing...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think that if you got pulled down to the ground by your neck, that you would just get up and act like nothing happenned.</div>Well I've seen bad flagrants already this year, that led to some pushes but nothing like this. Things don't escalate with smart players. Your obviously not going to be happy about a hard foul, but I don't expect brawls like these to start up from them. Which is why their so rare these days.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Also, by simply stopping JR from getting in to a fight wouldnt really show him that you are behind him. Smith already started to get in to it, so Carmelo jumped in and fought with him. Alot of teammattes would do the same exact thing...</div>So your basically for fighting? Stopping JR from getting into any trouble with the league is better then continuing a fight that could get way out of hand quick. If my friend were in a fight, I'm not going to jump in and start throwing punches. I'm going to get him out of it before sh*t happens that could lead to death or prison time. It's called being smart. You should agree since you called Melo stupid for throwing that punch.
There have been flagrant fouls this year but I dont think that I have seen one where a guy has been grabbed around his neck and pulled down to the ground on a fast break. Alot of flagrant fouls are intentional just to stop the guy from scoring, but IMO, this was a foul that was intended to hurt the player. There is a difference.The thing is, JR had already started his fight and decided what he wanted to do. Him and Nate Robinson already went in to the crowd and JR already threw a punch at Nate as well. I think it is good that Melo came to his teammattes aid, but I think his timing was a little bit off considering everything pretty much had died down at that point. You are making it seem like Carmelo could have just went in there and pulled JR out of it all. If you didnt notice, players were trying hard to seperate their teammattes but nothing changed because of it....Punches were still thrown.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>There have been flagrant fouls this year but I dont think that I have seen one where a guy has been grabbed around his neck and pulled down to the ground on a fast break. Alot of flagrant fouls are intentional just to stop the guy from scoring, but IMO, this was a foul that was intended to hurt the player. There is a difference.</div>Gerald Wallace by Danny Granger was one that popped into my head quick. And Gerald was badly hurt from it, but besides a stare from Cats towards Granger right after, nothing escalated as refs/players stepped in to prevent any fight. Another one in the past was with Juwan Howard who took out Derek Anderson dislocating his shoulder led to no incident as well. These are similar situations where a unnecessary foul could have caused for a fight, but nothing happened. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The thing is, JR had already started his fight and decided what he wanted to do.</div>And that was a mistake on his part. Considering his mental state, it doesn't surprize me as I said earlier he blew up. He's a young kid whose full of himself. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You are making it seem like Carmelo could have just went in there and pulled JR out of it all. If you didnt notice, players were trying hard to seperate their teammattes but nothing changed because of it....Punches were still thrown.</div>I don't get the first statement, if anything that what's he should be trying to do, that is all. That's basically what everyone else was trying to do besides Nate and JR. Of course punches were thrown, but that doesn't mean "hey I'm going to throw one now." That only adds to the fire. Which is what Melo did, instead of trying to stop it.But good point in bringing that about Melo because he wasn't even near Nate/JR when it went into the crowd. So he was not trying to stop it, he basically was jarring with Mardy instead.
Well I would personally blame the nuggets more for this. Suspend George stinkin Karl for a while. Karl is classless.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Dec 17 2006, 05:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You can protect players by simply stopping it between the starters. Melo, Nate, JR, Mardy obviously don't surprize me as guys who do not know when to keep their cool. All are known to have attitude problems. They escalated the situation instead of keeping it at bay like Lee, Najera, Jefferies seemed to be doing.</div>when did you ever think collins had an attitude problem? he's barely played and I never heard about him having any attitude problems. you can't say he has a problem based soley on what happened last night. he came from temple I don't think he's got an attitude. the other three do tho.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>when did you ever think collins had an attitude problem? he's barely played and I never heard about him having any attitude problems.</div>He's in question after last night. But I mainly judging on the other three players. I included him because he was a main part of the brawl yesterday. Making a goon move does not say a lot to me about being heady player.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ Dec 17 2006, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well I would personally blame the nuggets more for this. Suspend George stinkin Karl for a while. Karl is classless.</div>Why? You're an idiot.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ Dec 17 2006, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well I would personally blame the nuggets more for this. Suspend George stinkin Karl for a while. Karl is classless.</div>Compared to Isiah Thomas, George Karl is Jesus.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L_C @ Dec 17 2006, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Compared to Isiah Thomas, George Karl is Jesus.</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Dec 18 2006, 07:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>NYKfan, if Melo was that much of a coward, why would he have punched him in the first place? A coward wouldnt have ever punched him.</div>Dude just because you punch someone doesn't mean your not a coward!! I think punching someone who has not even swung at you is cowardly - Melo was SACRED and so he lashed out then he ran away! I would have run away too. Those are some big guys out htere lol. But to punch someone who has not punched you, and it not ready for it? THAT IS VERY COWARDLY.
He was getting ready for Jeffries and Nate because both were coming after them but Melo got luck because Jeffries was restrained.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC? @ Dec 17 2006, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why? You're an idiot.</div>Are you kidding? If a team is up 20, you don't leave the f*cking starters in. That's classless. They were rubbing it in. Isiah and Nate have a pretty damn good reason to be pissed. The knicks were obviously done, just toss in Reggie Evans and let him cop a feel on someone's nuts, don't leave melo and Jr and co in to slam it into the home team's face. Karl should be suspended for being a total ***hole.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>He was getting ready for Jeffries and Nate because both were coming after them but Melo got luck because Jeffries was restrained.</div>What? I disagree with that, Jeffries and Nate went after Melo after that slap. It was obvious they took offense to the slap, and Jeffries went after Melo for that. He was helping calm the situation beforehand. The same bodes for Nate regarding Melo as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Something-To-Say @ Dec 17 2006, 06:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Are you kidding? If a team is up 20, you don't leave the f*cking starters in. That's classless. They were rubbing it in. Isiah and Nate have a pretty damn good reason to be pissed. The knicks were obviously done, just toss in Reggie Evans and let him cop a feel on someone's nuts, don't leave melo and Jr and co in to slam it into the home team's face. Karl should be suspended for being a total ***hole.</div>Why should the Nuggets play at a lower level than possible to make the other team feel good? I never agreed with that rule for any team. You should play your hardest no matter what the score is. Show no mercy, If the Knicks were up by 20 I would be saying the same thing.
Generally the coach retreats his starters when his team is up by 20 with about two minutes left - there is no other point of keeping them in unless you wanted to rub the blow out in their face. In this game it was even more extenuated because the game was at the Garden - and no one wants to get beat down that bad in front of their home crowd in the Garden.EDIT: This of course does not mean I condone any action that was done by Collins or Isiah - he deserves full blame for this whole thing as well.It was a pretty low move to keep the starters in - if Karl was wise he would have let his bench play and nothing would have probably happened.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Why should the Nuggets play at a lower level than possible to make the other team feel good? I never agreed with that rule for any team. You should play your hardest no matter what the score is. Show no mercy, If the Knicks were up by 20 I would be saying the same thing.</div>No offense Tony but smart coaches take their players out in a blowout. Not to make the other team feel good, but mainly to not injure your key players in meaningless minutes.
Eh, You have your opinions and I have mine. The odds of you getting injured in a blowout is rare. Nobody is playing with full intensity.
