this is a just stupid. kobe is a great player, but only a great player. there isnt another michael jordan and wont ever be another mj.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">kobe is a great player, but only a great player. there isnt another michael jordan and wont ever be another mj</div> How do you know? What if some kid named Arthur Robinson comes and he's 6'9 240 lbs, he's a swingman with the athleticism of Shawn Marion, Ray Allen's shot, a knowledge of the game that challange's the best, the work ethic, killer instinct, and determination of Jordan, and he averages 30-8-5 his first season? How can you say never when never hasn't arrived? ......or what if Kobe blows up next season averaging 40-6-6, and shooting 49.0% from the field, that would be pretty impressive.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">How do you know? What if some kid named Arthur Robinson comes and he's 6'9 240 lbs, he's a swingman with the athleticism of Shawn Marion, Ray Allen's shot, a knowledge of the game that challange's the best, the work ethic, killer instinct, and determination of Jordan, and he averages 30-8-5 his first season? How can you say never when never hasn't arrived? ......or what if Kobe blows up next season averaging 40-6-6, and shooting 49.0% from the field, that would be pretty impressive.</div> Yep but how do YOU know that kid named Arthur Robinson will show up? Is it YOU?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">How do you know? What if some kid named Arthur Robinson comes and he's 6'9 240 lbs, he's a swingman with the athleticism of Shawn Marion, Ray Allen's shot, a knowledge of the game that challange's the best, the work ethic, killer instinct, and determination of Jordan, and he averages 30-8-5 his first season? How can you say never when never hasn't arrived? ......or what if Kobe blows up next season averaging 40-6-6, and shooting 49.0% from the field, that would be pretty impressive.</div> that is true. i should have said there will likely never be another michael jordan. when i say that i mean on all levels, levels of greatness, the way he changed the game and so on. i like kobe, i think hes an amazing player, and if he does happen to put up those kind of numbers, then maybe the kobe vs mj debate could start holding water.
Alrite, Numerical StatFact: sports illustrated-the nba players of today are 3 inches and 30 pounds bigger than 20 years ago. It's a fact yall, dont wanna believe basketball analysists of sports illustrated, by all means do so. I'm not saying Kobe is better or nething but how jiggax speaks is as if the nba players of now are of the same caliber as they were 20 years ago. Just looking at posters of crowds of nba players on the in the 80's show that nba players now are considerably larger. Jiggax was saying that MJ dominated like no other. Humans can only be so great. He was not whatever times athletic than kobe. They are at the same wavelength in terms of athletism (I agree MJ does have a bit more). Kobe cant dominate like good ol MJ because the opposition is so close to him now. He uses that little extra athletism and skill he has above the competition to, not quite dominate but overcome the opposition. Quote: Latrell Spreewell( after Paul Silas told Lebron he could overpower his opposition) - "Players in the NBA can't overpower other players like they use to. Maybe Lebron can overpower other point gaurds but he is basically matched in terms of power against other shooting gaurds or small forward. Only player now that can overpower is a healthy shaq." Source:Sports Illustrated. (Spree isn't Salley so don't give me any nonsence that Spree doesn't know his stuff) So you see Jiggax, MJ dominated during his time way above his competition because the competition was way below him. You say MJ of this time would adjust to the aggressiveness of modern basketball but like I said humans can only go so far on how much more power or skill they can increase. There is a peak for everyone. And MJ at his peak cannot dominate today's NBA players like those in the 80's. So JIGGAX, plz stop the statements claiming that MJ dominated his competition way above Kobe. He was at the right place at the right time that's it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">Alrite, Numerical StatFact: sports illustrated-the nba players of today are 3 inches and 30 pounds bigger than 20 years ago. It's a fact yall, dont wanna believe basketball analysists of sports illustrated, by all means do so. I'm not saying Kobe is better or nething but how jiggax speaks is as if the nba players of now are of the same caliber as they were 20 years ago. Just looking at posters of crowds of nba players on the in the 80's show that nba players now are considerably larger. Jiggax was saying that MJ dominated like no other. Humans can only be so great. He was not whatever times athletic than kobe. They are at the same wavelength in terms of athletism (I agree MJ does have a bit more). Kobe cant dominate like good ol MJ because the opposition is so close to him now. He uses that little extra athletism and skill he has above the competition to, not quite dominate but overcome the opposition. Quote: Latrell Spreewell( after Paul Silas told Lebron he could overpower his opposition) - "Players in the NBA can't overpower other players like they use to. Maybe Lebron can overpower other point gaurds but he is basically matched in terms of power against other shooting gaurds or small forward. Only player now that can overpower is a healthy shaq." Source:Sports Illustrated. (Spree isn't Salley so don't give me any nonsence that Spree doesn't know his stuff) So you see Jiggax, MJ dominated during his time way above his competition because the competition was way below him. You say MJ of this time would adjust to the aggressiveness of modern basketball but like I said humans can only go so far on how much more power or skill they can increase. There is a peak for everyone. And MJ at his peak cannot dominate today's NBA players like those in the 80's. So JIGGAX, plz stop the statements claiming that MJ dominated his competition way above Kobe. He was at the right place at the right time that's it.</div> first off,stop making statements like they are fact. they are your opinions not a fact. Michael Jordan dominated not because of great physical assets but because of his mental approach to the game and his otherworldy preperation (summertime training/workouts & season practices). Jordan would dominate because of his will to win and his drive to succeed. Jordan continually busted his ass whether it be in the offseason or midseason practices. Jordan stood head and shoulders above everyone else because of the reasons I stated not because of physical dominance. He continuously worked on his game and never thought he was good enough. He always tried to get better and always worked on new approaches to the game.
Yea this isn't to relevant not that it's a bad "fact", but Jordan didn't dominate because he was bigger and stronger than everyone.
i ain't sayin that MJ was bigger, im just sayin his opposition was not as physically gifted as him. An increase of 3 inch and 30 is a lot if u think about it. All im hearing is that kobe dont work as hard as MJ. That is total nonsense. They sayin MJ had this otherwordly desire to win and Kobe wasn't even close. I think that 8 hours a day of just working on ur game and watching videos of ur team is bustin us ass as well
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">i ain't sayin that MJ was bigger, im just sayin his opposition was not as physically gifted as him. An increase of 3 inch and 30 is a lot if u think about it. All im hearing is that kobe dont work as hard as MJ. That is total nonsense. They sayin MJ had this otherwordly desire to win and Kobe wasn't even close. I think that 8 hours a day of just working on ur game and watching videos of ur team is bustin us ass as well</div> nowhere did I say anything disparaging about Kobe. I was talking about Michael's strongpoints and countering the 'facts' you were using to try and bring him down. Don't put words where they never were.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting jiggax23:</div><div class="quote_post">if ur talking about skills, then yes, a lot of people in todays league are more skilled than michael because of what the game has evolved in to... but if you're talking about playing the game, MJ is better than kobe at 25 and anyone else that ever played the game... the things the guy did on the court, regardless of competition, can not be matched... if you're basing this off what people can do physically and skillfully, then thats a total different thing... hot sauce can do things kobe can't do, does that make him better than kobe? and using elbows to defend people make it harder for the offensive player... so jordan had to play against harder defenses, and kobe is benefitting because people can't touch him... so obviously, salley is an idiot as we stated at the beginning of this post</div> Well said. Saying things like "MJ had nice natural ability but if he was in the nba in that body, he'd be totaly meshed." is like comparing apples and oranges. MJ simply dominated the game of his time. Now answer this... Who is the most dominant player of this time period? I'll assume most people would say Shaq because of his size. Now, when MJ joined the Bulls, they were not the best team. However, Kobe joined a dynasty. The difference here is that MJ helped the Bulls become a dynasty.
So you want to compare The Teacher 2 the student. MJ came into the L when teams played Hard nose D. And the ref's let them foul (hard too). all teams kept killers on there roasters &Mike beat them all to the hoop.(many times). Kobe watched Mike all his life specially in Italy. tape after tape after tape. it was only a matter of time before mike-a-likes started to come into the L. then the first one who finally has the skill, heart,& good luck to land in La-La Land with Shaq.then everyone thinks the student is better then The Teacher. Well we will see this year .
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting balluva:</div><div class="quote_post">Alrite, Numerical StatFact: sports illustrated-the nba players of today are 3 inches and 30 pounds bigger than 20 years ago. It's a fact yall, dont wanna believe basketball analysists of sports illustrated, by all means do so. I'm not saying Kobe is better or nething but how jiggax speaks is as if the nba players of now are of the same caliber as they were 20 years ago. Just looking at posters of crowds of nba players on the in the 80's show that nba players now are considerably larger. Jiggax was saying that MJ dominated like no other. Humans can only be so great. He was not whatever times athletic than kobe. They are at the same wavelength in terms of athletism (I agree MJ does have a bit more). Kobe cant dominate like good ol MJ because the opposition is so close to him now. He uses that little extra athletism and skill he has above the competition to, not quite dominate but overcome the opposition. Quote: Latrell Spreewell( after Paul Silas told Lebron he could overpower his opposition) - "Players in the NBA can't overpower other players like they use to. Maybe Lebron can overpower other point gaurds but he is basically matched in terms of power against other shooting gaurds or small forward. Only player now that can overpower is a healthy shaq." Source:Sports Illustrated. (Spree isn't Salley so don't give me any nonsence that Spree doesn't know his stuff) So you see Jiggax, MJ dominated during his time way above his competition because the competition was way below him. You say MJ of this time would adjust to the aggressiveness of modern basketball but like I said humans can only go so far on how much more power or skill they can increase. There is a peak for everyone. And MJ at his peak cannot dominate today's NBA players like those in the 80's. So JIGGAX, plz stop the statements claiming that MJ dominated his competition way above Kobe. He was at the right place at the right time that's it.</div> players today may be bigger and taller, but alot of it goes to waste... dont forget, jordan played against tim duncan, and played against kevin garnett, and played against shaq, some of the most dominating in the game today... granted he played w/ a young duncan and KG and shaq, KG was an all-star, and although duncan was in his first year, he still made all-nba first team. He also played while malone was there, as well as barkley.... these players that i've mentioned are recognized as the most dominating physical players in the game today or of their time... throw in other players like ewing and the admiral and the dream.... the players that jordan played against can't be compared to the players in today's game (when you talk about physicality). Who can play like those guys played in todays game? Shaq, Duncan? Maybe Brand? That's about it... you can't even put players like JO and KG in that category... so the height and physicality issue is pretty moot when you look at the players and their style today. And as far as there being more athleticism today, a major reason why people are more athletic in the NBA today is because of jordan... but u can't use that to knock jordan, because he in fact was the one who raised the bar, and until someone raises it higher, he is gonna be the standard to which greatness in the NBA is measured. Who would have ever thought a player would be able to put the ball between his legs and dunk the ball? I sure never thought of it, and when i saw that, i thought that would be the last great dunk, but people like J-rich have taken that further, and in a few years someone will probably come up with an even more spectacular dunk... so to say theres a limit in terms of athletics, i dispute that... and keep in mind, i aint saying jordan will forever be the greatest, but until i see someone as dominant as him, he will be regarded as, in my book, the greatest. and from what i've seen from kobe, he is far from that
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Dre:</div><div class="quote_post">first off,stop making statements like they are fact. they are your opinions not a fact. Michael Jordan dominated not because of great physical assets but because of his mental approach to the game and his otherworldy preperation (summertime training/workouts & season practices). Jordan would dominate because of his will to win and his drive to succeed. Jordan continually busted his ass whether it be in the offseason or midseason practices. Jordan stood head and shoulders above everyone else because of the reasons I stated not because of physical dominance. He continuously worked on his game and never thought he was good enough. He always tried to get better and always worked on new approaches to the game.</div> Kobe's works on his game each year, you see something different from him each year. He went from a showboat and then gradually learned the game. We see that he isn't the same Kobe as he was 6-7 years ago. This year we saw Kobe playing with injuries, using his left hand, and worked on his game even when he couldn't play, because he loves the game. His competitive fire and physical abilities remind me a lot like MJ. He's going to be great this coming season, I can't wait to see him lead the Shaqless Lakers. We see alot of Jordan in him. The reason he doesn't really stand over "everyone" (MJ), because a)Shaq Players can dribble, dunk, run, just as he But what seperates him from being great than good, is because he uses his great mental abilities (MJ), like you said made him better than his opposition, we see that with Kobe. But Kobe will not get that love, because Jordan was the first. Back then it was all JORDAN! Now we argue over T-mac, Vince, LEBron, AI, Paul Pierce, KG, etc. When Kobe get's the recognition to leading his team without Shaq, he would be considered the best player (SG, at least) in the league "today". I wonder what Kobe will pull off next year (he's got the turnaround, pump fake, tear drop, left, bank shot, etc.)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Prodigy:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe's works on his game each year, you see something different from him each year. He went from a showboat and then gradually learned the game. We see that he isn't the same Kobe as he was 6-7 years ago. This year we saw Kobe playing with injuries, using his left hand, and worked on his game even when he couldn't play, because he loves the game. His competitive fire and physical abilities remind me a lot like MJ. He's going to be great this coming season, I can't wait to see him lead the Shaqless Lakers. We see alot of Jordan in him. The reason he doesn't really stand over "everyone" (MJ), because a)Shaq Players can dribble, dunk, run, just as he But what seperates him from being great than good, is because he uses his great mental abilities (MJ), like you said made him better than his opposition, we see that with Kobe. But Kobe will not get that love, because Jordan was the first. Back then it was all JORDAN! Now we argue over T-mac, Vince, LEBron, AI, Paul Pierce, KG, etc. When Kobe get's the recognition to leading his team without Shaq, he would be considered the best player (SG, at least) in the league "today". I wonder what Kobe will pull off next year (he's got the turnaround, pump fake, tear drop, left, bank shot, etc.)</div> You keep saying Jordan was the first...Jordan was the 'first' what? The first player to really incorporate high flying dunks into 'every game' arsenal? Wrong if thats what you think,that was Elgin Baylor. The first one to do fancy street style dunks? Nah dog Connie Hawkins was doin' all that long before Jordan. The first person to truly take the game 'above the rim'? Nope. Can we say Julius Erving? Then follow that up with David Thompson. The first guard to have a truly all around,dominant game? Wow. Wrong again...try Oscar Robertson. To truly recognize Michael Jordan's greatness you need to think about one thing..he was a shooting guard who had a team built around him and the team was made up of primarily role players. The team had no dominant,or even 'good' center. It had only one other player who was above role player status and that was Pip. This team was built around a guard,something was said you couldn't do and truly contend for a championship let alone win one..or 6 yet Jordan's Bulls not only won they dominated the NBA. Look at what he dominated....a league full of forwards and centers. David Robinson,Hakeem Olujawon,Alonzo Mourning,Patrick Ewing,Dikembe Motumbo,Brad Daugherty,Shaquille O'Neal,Charles Barkley,Shawn Kemp,Karl Malone,Dominique Wilkins and there are more you can add to this list..then we have the list of all-world guards he went against night in and night out..Isiah Thomas,Mitch Richmond,Tim Hardaway,Joe Dumars,Reggie Miller,John Starks,Gary Payton,Ron Harper,Clyde Drexler...The list of centers is not only made up of all-time greats but they played on good teams year in and year out (with the exception of Deke) same can be said for the forwards and guards...so name dropping is in Jordan's favor if thats the way you want to go. Jordan dominated a plethora of Hall Of Famers and All-Time greats and if need be I could add more names to the list of people he had to play and guard night in and night out...but you get the picture. Now I know you or someone is gonna bring up the fact that Pip guarded most of the better offensive players to allow Jordan to conserve energy for the offensive end of things and thats true..BUT that didn't start happening on a regular basis until about the 3rd championship season (all praise be to Pip too,his defense on Magic Johnson was the key to that series) so the first 7 or so seasons of Jordan's career he was going against the best on both ends of the floor and absolutely dominating (Scoring titles,DPOY,Defensive 1st team etc). The NBA pre-'95 was far more balanced with a multitude of teams that could win the title and yet what happened? The Bulls,year in and year out. No other guard in history took a team of role players to the heights Jordan did....Jordan & Pip and a bunch of 6th men (because thats what they were) dominated the League. Look at all the other great guards in history...None of them won anything without a dominant big man or all-world front court...Oscar Robertson never won a title until he had Kareem. Jerry West never won until he had Wilt (neither did Elgin) and the list goes on forever....Isiah wouldn't have won if he hadn't had the front court he did. You have to put the whole of Jordan's accomplishments into perspective and look at the bigger picture. The fact is Kobe was Pip to Shaq's Jordan for the largest majority of the time they spent together on the Lakers. As of now,nothing Kobe has done translates to an MJ comparison. Without Shaq Kobe would just be another face in the crowd in the NBA. We all seen how Kobe handled leadership when Shaq went down....remember those losing streaks? The mark of a good leader is to rally your guys around you and let them feed off of your enthusiasm,desire and will to win and show them the way thru your actions. Jordan busted his ass constantly to be the best and demanded the same from his teammates and because of that reason they would walk thru hell with the man. They may have thought he was an @$$hole for the way he pushed them but come gametime they knew who they wanted to go to war with.. If Kobe was the man like you say,and he was truly comparable to Mike he could have taken this team on his back (a team of 3 future hall of famers i might add) and marched them to the title. Oh but you say its personal strife that caused it? The media crush distracted him? His personal problems? Puh-leeze...no one on this earth (other than Muhammad Ali) has put up with more media presence than MJ. Always rumors of his rampant womanizing,his gambling and whatever else they could dig up..its nothing compared to alleged rape but the sheer magnitiude of media focused on Jordan and the pressure put upon him by the NBA and the Chicago Bulls to win is unlike anything Kobe has faced. Adversity motivated Jordan,yet it seems to distract Kobe. Bottomline,for anyone on this forum to say Kobe is better than Michael Jordan is ridiculous. Nothing Kobe has done remotely compares to Michael Jordan. Jordan was the burden bearer for his team he was the main man year in and year out. Kobe has yet to be the man on his team. We will see what happens this year,we will see if Kobe can be what all of you already proclaim him to be. But until then lay off the Kobe > MJ bullsh.t. It's not true and it's not fair to make that comparison yet. If Kobe steps up this season and leads his team to a title then let the comparisons begin but until then there is nothing to compare.
DRE YOU ARE SO RIGHT! i think we have to wait for kobe to finish his career, then can everyone compare cuz right now mj did a lot more then kobe did and maybe ever will.
I didn't say MJ<KOBE...we gotta wait till he finishes his career, he probably won't have a better "career" though. We will see this season, what Kobe Bryant "really" is about. But the Bulls had great chem. and the role players fit the puzzle perfectly. "he could have taken this team on his back (a team of 3 future hall of famers i might add) and marched them to the title" A lot of unfortunate things happened last season (injuries, court, complaints). The offense goes through Shaq, even when Kobe leads the team to victory while being the primary offense player for that game, the media still focuses on Shaq, "They gotta give it to the big fella'"...Shaq helps Kobe by taking away the defense from him, but also stops hip from being the player that he wants to become. Karl was hurt, and the GLOVE was horrible. The role players would brick their shots. The chem/heart wasn't there. All I'm saying that Kobe is 25, and has a long time to work on his game, he's always eager to learn more, and maybe become at the same level or even better than MJ, as a player Well, who knows what happens, next year is his time to shine. Dre, calm down man, it always seems as if your yellin' at me man. If you're gonna argue on this post, than you got problems...This is as neutral as it gets man. If someone argues on this post, than I don't know what's wrong with you guys, you guys just love Jordan no matter what, and can't except that times change. You illogical Jordan lovers (not dre, he got stuff to say, but the other klowns that just type "Mj is the greatest, ever" and that's all. Here's what I have to say to ya'll: All your mommaz are like Jordan themselves, they always got their legs spread open, with their tounges out, with balls in their hands. For those who thought Pippen wasn't nothing, he was a vital key to Jordan's success. 1992-1993 57 - 25 .695 (pythagorean: 60 - 22 .735) Finished in 1st place, 0 games out of first. Attendance: 759,656 Total; 18,528 Avg 1993-1994 (without the GOAT) 55 - 27 .671 (pythagorean: 51 - 31 .629) Finished in 2nd place, 2 games out of first. Attendance: 759,816 Total; 18,532 Avg The record in which Jordan left differentiates by 2 losses? They weren't that bad without Jordan. (Pip's year: ASG and winning the SDC) 1990-1991- G Min EFF AV VI PPFGA PPR RbRate Michael Jordan 82 3034 32.71 17.7 10.1 1.210 3.30 9.6 Scottie Pippen 82 3014 24.00 14.0 9.3 1.122 3.61 11.7 1991-1992- G Min EFF AV VI PPFGA PPR RbRate Michael Jordan 80 3102 31.09 16.8 10.6 1.157 4.06 9.5 Scottie Pippen 82 3164 26.11 15.0 10.4 1.110 4.06 11.5 1992-1993 G MIN EFF AV VI PPFGA PPR RbRate Michael Jordan 78 3067 31.56 16.6 10.6 1.128 2.55 9.8 Scottie Pippen 81 3123 22.48 13.2 9.7 1.020 2.95 11.5 1995-1996 G MIN EFF AV VI PPFGA PPR RbRAte Michael Jordan 82 3090 28.88 16.1 9.5 1.165 1.22 10.3 Scottie Pippen 77 2825 21.69 12.4 9.0 1.101 3.34 10.3 1996-1997 G MIN EFF AV VI PPGFA PPR RbRate Michael Jordan 82 3106 27.01 15.3 9.1 1.133 2.21 8.8 Scottie Pippen 82 3095 22.37 13.3 9.1 1.108 3.15 9.7 1997-1998 G MIN EFF AV VI PPFGA PPR RbRate Michael Jordan 82 3181 23.76 14.0 8.4 1.066 0.12 8.5 Scottie Pippen 44 1652 20.52 7.8 8.3 1.066 3.65 7.9 EFF - Efficiency*** AV - Approximate Value (see below) PF - Total Personal Fouls VI - Versatility Index (ppg*rpg*apg)^.333 (see below) PPFGA - Points per FGA Points/(FGA+(FTA*.44)) (see below) PPR - Assist/Turnover Rating (((ASTS*.66)-TO)*100)/Minutes (see below) RbRate - Rebound Rate (Reb*Team Minutes)/(Player Minutes*(Team Reb + Opp Reb)) (see below) * The NBA did not have three point shots until 1979 ** Steals, Blocks and Turnovers were not recorded in the NBA until 1973 *** Efficiency is a new stat the NBA developed in 2002. It is calculated using the following formula: ((pts + reb + stls + asts + blk) - ((fga - fgm) + (fta - ftm) + to))/g Since Efficiency is calculated on a per game basis, it is good at seeing how well a particular player has performed, regardless of the number of games that the player has played during that season. For an estimate of a players value to his team for the entire season, Approximate Values can be used. Approximate Value (AV) Approximate Value (AV) was developed by Dean Oliver. You can read more about this formula and more at this website: http://www.powerbasketball.com/theywin2.html Here is a quick synopsis of AV values Credits= PTS+REB+AST+STL+BLK-FG MISSED-FT MISSED-TO AV= Credits^(3/4)/21 The Value Approximation Method was a major task to come up with, taking me about two months to finally arrive at satisfactory results. The plan for the method was to end up with a scale of integers between 0 and about 20 rating players, with 10 representing an 'average' player. It was to be based upon several standards a player was to meet in order to gain points of approximate value. The whole thing was modeled on Bill James' Value Approximation method for baseball. As James did, I assigned verbal descriptions to ranges of scores in order to see if the method produced results that matched general descriptions of players. Those descriptions are as follows: A score of about twenty indicates an exceptional MVP season. A score of seventeen or eighteen indicates a strong MVP candidate or an ordinary MVP season. A score of sixteen indicates an MVP candidate. A score of fifteen indicates a definite All-Star who is a marginal MVP candidate. A score of fourteen indicates a probable All-Star. A score of thirteen indicates a marginal All-Star. A score of twelve indicates a very fine season; an All-Star candidate. A score of eleven indicates an above average regular; an excellent player playing about 1800 minutes. A score of ten indicates an average regular or a very good sixth man. A score of nine indicates an average regular or a good sixth man. A score of eight indicates a fair regular or an average sixth man. A score of six or seven indicates an average bench player or a good player playing under 1500 minutes. A score of four or five indicates a player who plays about 1000 minutes and who doesn't deserve many more. Scores of three or less usually indicate players who are unimpressive in limited playing time. Before the '73-74 season, steals (STL), blocks (BLK), and turnovers weren't kept as official stats. In the credits formula for player seasons before '73-74, those stats are just omitted as they tend to cancel each other out to some degree when included anyway. Versatility Index The Versatility Index is a metric that measures a player's ability to produce in more than one statistic. In this case we are using points, assists, and rebounds. The average player will score around a five on the index, while top players score above 10. The index was designed by John Hollinger and more information can be found in this article. PPFGA Points per FGA is sometimes a better way of looking at shot efficiency than FG PCT because it takes into account three point shots and points gained due to free throw shots. It was used by John Hollinger in his book Pro Basketball Prospectus and I encourage anyone interested in this statistic to check out his book. PPR PPR is an assist to turnover ratio which is much better than the simple assists divided by turnovers ratio which is often used by the media. Turnovers were not kept as an official stat by the NBA prior to the 1977-78 season so PPR is only displayed or accurate after this that season. It was used by John Hollinger in his book Pro Basketball Prospectus and I encourage anyone interested in this statistic to check out his book. Rebound Rate Rebound Rate is an excellent stat for measuring the rebounding ability of a player. It simply measures the percentage of missed shots a player rebounded while he was on the floor. Rebounds allowed by opponents was not kept as an NBA stat prior to the 1970-71 season so rebound rate is only available after that year. It was used by John Hollinger in his book Pro Basketball Prospectus and I encourage anyone interested in this statistic to check out his book. PEACE
I'm not gonna go thru and disect that whole post so I'll just say it here. No one is yellin' or gettin mad playa but someone has to bring some legitimacy to this 'debate' on Jordan's side. We got people in this thread slingin' facts around and claimin' this and claimin' that and I doubt half of 'em even watched Jordan other than his Wiz stint. The whole problem I have with this entire thing is two-fold. First,you guys are acting like all the hype and attention Jordan got was undeserved,that he was nothing more than a media creation. Do you think for a second that if MJ didn't put up the huge numbers,dominate and win year after year that he would be as big as he is? Of course not. Any adulation Mike gets is well earned. He was so popular because he was the best in the world. You keep saying Mike was the first..and by that I assume you mean the first NBA player to get international hype and recognition. But you have to ask yourself again. Without the scoring titles,championships and overall domination of the League would he have gotten the same thing? Doubtful. Michael Jordan did things on a basketball court that amazed us all. He did it year in and year out. When he got older,he tweaked his game. Changed it up abit and continued to dominated,and I dare say he dominated even more so. He was the first player of his kind because he was so good,so dominant and won like no one else. On the flip side,Kobe has the talent to be an all-time great. But as of yet,other than his Jordan like walk and talk and his emulations of Jordan on the court,there is no comparison. So Kobe dropped 30ppg in a season and won three titles as the second fiddle to Shaq. That doesn't make him in Mike's League. That's what I dont understand about this whole thread. Kobe at 25 and Mike at 25 can't be compared because they are in two entirely different situations. Where Mike had to be the man night in and night out and carry his team,Kobe had the luxury of playing with Shaq and having a relatively smooth ride because of the defensives laxes to try and contain Shaquille. I just want people to actually know what they talk about before they speak. And for anyone to call Pip anything other than an All-Time great is ludicrous. Pip at one time was considered the best player in the League. After this season,we can compare they two more accurately because Kobe is gettin' ready to step up to the plate and see if he is actually ready to be the man. He's gettin' ready to enter a realm that Jordan called home for 14 years.
Kobe Bryant is a great player, top 5 in the league, probobly the best shooting guard...but there is no way that there is anyone in the league you can compare to Michael Jordan. Michael and Kobe are both good at Shooting, they're both clutch, they're both high flyers, they are both great at defence and they are both farely good at ball handling and passing...but MJ is just that much better at all of those things that there should me know comparison. Don't get me wrong Kobe is great, but he's no MJ.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting trenchteam:</div><div class="quote_post">^^ No MJ yet.... He's still a baby.... 26</div> Still after readig this whole thread how can you still compare Kobe to MJ? even at 25
