<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> The Bulls don't need to bail the Lakers out by sending them their two, young, up and coming best players. They can just wait, and let the Lakers just narrowly make and miss the playoffs. Then if Kobe really wants to go to Chicago, he can sign for the MLE, and have JR find him some new endorsements.</p> Bulls are going to be one of the best teams in the NBA if they stand pat. They don't need a trade to be good, the Lakers do. You can take Gordon/Deng over the next 10 years.....or Kobe over the next 5 years (with knee problems too). Paxson views both Gordon/Deng as rising stars, and expects Gordon to be at an Iverson level as a scorer, and Deng to just be a damn good superstar (not worth trading for Gasol). Paxson's already denied trading these guys for other stars, he wouldn't trade Gordon (and a filler) straight up for Paul Pierce or Jermaine O'neal. He wouldn't trade Deng (and filler) for Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett. No GM is going to trade a budding superstar for an aging one. They'll take their longer window to win a championship with the young guys....let alone trading two of them away.</p> Lakers are not in a position of leverage. They have two options, take a package of two good...but not great players such as (Nocionii/Hinrich, Howard/Terry, Hamilton/Prince), or sit and wait with Kobe. See if he's just bluffing. If he isn't, he'll bolt town, accepting the MLE to play with a contender. If he is, he'll resign with the Lakers, because the money was more important to him.</p> Brush up on the Garnett, Carter, and Iverson trades. You can't realistically expect Gordon/Deng, let alone one of them even.</p> In addition, Bulls are in an even greater position of leverage, as they can't make a trade until December 15th. They can sit back and watch, and let their guys go out and play, and evaluating them...while letting the Lakers go out and struggle.</p> Now just a scenario.</p> Ben Gordon is averaging 25 PPG. Luol Deng 23 PPG. Kobe is averaging 25 PPG, while missing a bunch of games. How can you justify to the Bulls fans trading one of those guys for Kobe?</p> </div></p> Are you kidding me? KOBE averaging 25 PPG on the Lakers with Gordon averaging the same? That will never happen.</p> Wheres the links that say Paxson wouldn't trade Gordon for PP and Deng for Garnett? If its true then he's got to be one of the dumbest GMs. Get KG and PP for Gordon and Deng plus Wallace and Hinrich still on the roster makes them instant contenders.</p> So you're saying we can't realistically get Gordon + fillers for Kobe straight up?</p> Bulls aren't even close to one of the best teams in the league. Are you forgetting the Suns/Mavs/Spurs/Rockets/Jazz/Cavs/Pistons/Celtics? The Wizards also played in the playoffs without Gilbert Arenas. And the Magic aquired Rashard Lewis. And theres also The Heat if they can stay healthy, with Wade, Shaq and now Davis. You guys aren't even the best in the east let alone the league.</p> </p>
[quote name='BG7 Lavigne']</p> The Bulls don't need to bail the Lakers out by sending them their two, young, up and coming best players. They can just wait, and let the Lakers just narrowly make and miss the playoffs. Then if Kobe really wants to go to Chicago, he can sign for the MLE, and have JR find him some new endorsements.[/QUOTE]</p> You really think he will? Wow.</p> </p> [quote name='BG7 Lavigne']Bulls are going to be one of the best teams in the NBA if they stand pat. They don't need a trade to be good, the Lakers do. You can take Gordon/Deng over the next 10 years.....or Kobe over the next 5 years (with knee problems too). Paxson views both Gordon/Deng as rising stars, and expects Gordon to be at an Iverson level as a scorer, and Deng to just be a damn good superstar (not worth trading for Gasol). Paxson's already denied trading these guys for other stars, he wouldn't trade Gordon (and a filler) straight up for Paul Pierce or Jermaine O'neal. He wouldn't trade Deng (and filler) for Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett. No GM is going to trade a budding superstar for an aging one. They'll take their longer window to win a championship with the young guys....let alone trading two of them away.[/QUOTE]</p> No way. Celtics, Nets, Pistons, (that was the east), Spurs, Mavs, Suns, Rockets, Jazz, Warriors, (thats the west), are all better than the Bulls.</p> Kobe with knee problems? How the hell did he score 80+ points? How the hell is he averaging 25+ for so many years now? Have you even watched him play a game?</p> Gordon/Deng rising stars? In what planet? Don't you understand they're not even top 30 in this league?</p> Your GM is dumb if he didn't trade Gordon straight up for Pierce. That would have been a steal for your team.</p> </p> [quote name='BG7 Lavigne']Lakers are not in a position of leverage. They have two options, take a package of two good...but not great players such as (Nocionii/Hinrich, Howard/Terry, Hamilton/Prince), or sit and wait with Kobe. See if he's just bluffing. If he isn't, he'll bolt town, accepting the MLE to play with a contender. If he is, he'll resign with the Lakers, because the money was more important to him.[/QUOTE]</p> How can you even say that? A star (best player in the league) signing for the MLE? To win a title? (when he has 3 rings already) lol</p> </p> [quote name='BG7 Lavigne']Brush up on the Garnett, Carter, and Iverson trades. You can't realistically expect Gordon/Deng, let alone one of them even.[/QUOTE]</p> Lets brush on the Garnett trade. Celtics send Al Jefferson, Gomes, Telfair and company (draft picks) to get one Garnett. Now we all know that Kobe is on another level when it comes to superstars and you won't trade Gordon / Deng for him? Since when either one of them is better than Al Jeff. who will be a 20ppg 10rpg 5apg for his career. Then Gomes, then Telfair. Comon Lavigne, you're not making any sense saying that your guys are stars.</p> </p> [quote name='BG7 Lavigne']In addition, Bulls are in an even greater position of leverage, as they can't make a trade until December 15th. They can sit back and watch, and let their guys go out and play, and evaluating them...while letting the Lakers go out and struggle.[/QUOTE]</p> The Lakers will not struggle. I'm pretty sure they would be able to beat the Bulls if they met in the playoffs. (too bad its a different conference) lol</p> [quote name='BG7 Lavigne']Now just a scenario.</p> Ben Gordon is averaging 25 PPG. Luol Deng 23 PPG. Kobe is averaging 25 PPG, while missing a bunch of games. How can you justify to the Bulls fans trading one of those guys for Kobe?</p> [/QUOTE]</p> Simple, you tell them they're getting the best player in the league, teaming him up with Hinrich, Wallace and company, and becoming contenders. Right now you guys are not, with the team as you are, 2nd round is the ceiling.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> SportsNation poll on espn.com - should the lakers trade Kobe? 65% yes.</p> Stephen A. said the deal is Gordon, Nocioni, Sefalosha, and filler.</p> Dec. 15, it'd have to be.</p> </p> </div></p> The filler better be Luol Deng.</p> This trade is terrible for the Lakers and I'm not sure what SAS is talking about. This deal can't take place until December 15th since Noc is involved and a lot can happen from now until then.</p> Does this trade even work under the cap? If Gordon signed an extension doesn't he become a BYC player?</p> </div></p> </p> It works after Dec. 15. Gordon hasn't signed that I know of - Paxson offered him a lower contract than he wants.</p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> If Kobe only needs to average 25 PPG the Lakers will be winning 50+ games.</p> </div></p> Lakers won't be winning 50 games. If Kobe is scoring 25...they are probably in drop dead last place. If he gives a half ass effort for the first month of the season, he could definitely be averaging 25 or less PPG.</p> Last year, in games prior to December 15th, Kobe was only averaging 26.6 PPG, that was with a 52 point game in there. That gave him a 10.5% trimmed mean of 25.7 PPG. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility for Kobe to be averaging around 25 PPG prior to December 15th, especially if he is tanking it. Gordon averaged 24.4 PPG in the games he played over 30 minutes prior to December 15th last year.</p> Luol Deng is the tricky one. While some Bulls fans expect him to become a superstar, and average 25+ PPG this year, using his great preseason play as validation, he still is only averaging 22.3 PPG per 40 in the preseason. His rebounding/assist stats are up big time (as are Gordon and Hinrich's), but his scoring may not leap too much beyond 20 PPG. But if he is deemed untouchable already, and Gordon is putting up better scoring stats than Kobe...a trade becomes even less likely.</p> A Kobe never made too much sense for the Bulls in the beginning. They have a perimeter core of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng, which pretty much single handedly took them to 49 wins last season, with no frontcourt help. Trading for a guard makes no sense.</p> Trading Nocioni and Noah/-Tyrus for Gasol/Amare (who both have smaller contracts) makes a lot more sense for the Bulls than a Kobe trade. Its just a matter of waiting for either the Grizzlies or Suns to stumble before you can try to reel in one of those players.</p> </p> </p> </p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BG7 Lavigne)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shapecity)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> If Kobe only needs to average 25 PPG the Lakers will be winning 50+ games.</p> </div></p> Lakers won't be winning 50 games. If Kobe is scoring 25...they are probably in drop dead last place. If he gives a half ass effort for the first month of the season, he could definitely be averaging 25 or less PPG.</p> Last year, in games prior to December 15th, Kobe was only averaging 26.6 PPG, that was with a 52 point game in there. That gave him a 10.5% trimmed mean of 25.7 PPG. I don't think its out of the realm of possibility for Kobe to be averaging around 25 PPG prior to December 15th, especially if he is tanking it. Gordon averaged 24.4 PPG in the games he played over 30 minutes prior to December 15th last year.</p> Luol Deng is the tricky one. While some Bulls fans expect him to become a superstar, and average 25+ PPG this year, using his great preseason play as validation, he still is only averaging 22.3 PPG per 40 in the preseason. His rebounding/assist stats are up big time (as are Gordon and Hinrich's), but his scoring may not leap too much beyond 20 PPG. But if he is deemed untouchable already, and Gordon is putting up better scoring stats than Kobe...a trade becomes even less likely.</p> A Kobe never made too much sense for the Bulls in the beginning. They have a perimeter core of Hinrich/Gordon/Deng, which pretty much single handedly took them to 49 wins last season, with no frontcourt help. Trading for a guard makes no sense.</p> Trading Nocioni and Noah/-Tyrus for Gasol/Amare (who both have smaller contracts) makes a lot more sense for the Bulls than a Kobe trade. Its just a matter of waiting for either the Grizzlies or Suns to stumble before you can try to reel in one of those players.</p> </div></p> Right and the Lakers were 16-7 up until December 15th. Do the math that's a 69.6 winning percentage which would equate to a 57 win season. Unfortunately, injuries ravaged the team and they never recovered from it.</p> </p>
Exactly. The Lakers are a playoff team as they are right now, with these players, barring any injuries. And thats the west. Imagine if kobe goes to the east. You saw what lebron did with nobodys on the cavs team. Just him alone, they went to the finals.</p>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumpman)</div><div class='quotemain'></p> Are you kidding me? KOBE averaging 25 PPG on the Lakers with Gordon averaging the same? That will never happen.</p> Wheres the links that say Paxson wouldn't trade Gordon for PP and Deng for Garnett? If its true then he's got to be one of the dumbest GMs. Get KG and PP for Gordon and Deng plus Wallace and Hinrich still on the roster makes them instant contenders.</p> So you're saying we can't realistically get Gordon + fillers for Kobe straight up?</p> Bulls aren't even close to one of the best teams in the league. Are you forgetting the Suns/Mavs/Spurs/Rockets/Jazz/Cavs/Pistons/Celtics? The Wizards also played in the playoffs without Gilbert Arenas. And the Magic aquired Rashard Lewis. And theres also The Heat if they can stay healthy, with Wade, Shaq and now Davis. You guys aren't even the best in the east let alone the league.</p> </div></p> </p> And...the Nets..?</p> </p> If I were the Bulls, I wouldn't do a Deng-Gordon for Kobe trade. If I were the Lakers, I wouldn't do a Kobe for Deng OR Gordon trade. If I were the Lakers, I'd try to go the way of Minny, and pick up a young and up and coming big man. IMO that's the best route the Lakers could go.</p> Kwame and Bynum suck.</p>
HAHAHA Kobe signing for MLE? That's funny...............</p> Also, Gordon+Nocioni+Thomas+1st rd. pick is VERY adequate for Kobe. We have a LOT of depth and a solid, YOUNG team. Imagine a frontcourt of Bynum, Odom, and Thomas? That would be nasty............. Also, I think we should attempt to send off Kwame Brown w/ Nocioni to Phoenix for Marion. That gives us veteran leadership AND defense. Imagin LO and Marion ON THE SAME TEAM??? And we have a solid player in Fisher and the up-and-coming Ben Gordon? Scary team defensively, and VERY athletic and versatile offensively. I don't know why the Lakers would have a "No Deng-No Deal" policy. The Lakers have a top 5 team IN THE LEAGUE (if they can stay healthy) with the afore mentioned team.</p>
Well right now on ESPNews, they just reported the Lakers are asking for Deng AND Gordon plus Thomas and Noah. I think thats way too much for the bulls to give up. But at least Mitch is trying to get the better end of the deal this time.</p>
although they are still discussing it... i am 100% sure the deal that the Bulls F.O., Lakers F.O. and KOBE will acceptc and agree upon is "Kobe for Gordon, Nocioni, Sefolosha, Thomas OR Noah (dont care pretty much the same) and around 3 - 4 picks"</p> Its the only win - win situation, or at least the fairest even though they are getting the best player, for both teams that would satisfy both teams... i'd love to see deng in the P&G but i know where paxson is getting at... Kobe can EASILY replace what Gordon brings to the court, but he cant replace what deng and hinrich can... Paxson (for sure) is trying to reincarnate the jordan - pippen duo... and Gordon can fill around 75% - 85% (if he is lucky LOL) of the scoring hole kobe will leave with the lakerswhen he leaves, thats where nocioni thabo and the other fillers come in...</p> Lakers: Fisher/Gordon/Walton/Odom/Bynum BN: Kwame, Mihm, ETC</p> Bulls: Hinrich/Kobe/Deng/PF/Big Ben BN: whoever</p> Best Scenario possible, believe me</p>
