Angry <div class="quote_poster">Quoting VC #15:</div><div class="quote_post">still tho his shooting percentage is better than kobe and tmac. get it man who's shooting better than who. if he's shooting 10-30 like you said wut does kobe and tmac shoot 10-40 come on man simply vince is a better shooter than both. he's shooting .45 with da nets</div> i never said that kobe and TMac were better shooters...i merely said that his shot is not tha great....TMac is shooting .430 this year..... .004 worse....but he gets to the rim less ..... none of them are exceptional shooters.....LBJ on the other hand is shooting .482 from the field ..... best of any non PF / C .... youd only responded to half my post....so do you actually watch Vince play? or do you just see the athletic shots he takes and MAKES not the ones he misses badly on?
The shooting percentage doesn't show what shots were taken from the floor. If that were the case, Shaq would be the best shooter in the league! Vince also has arguably the best playmaker on his team spoon feeding him and yet he still isn't dominating as much.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">still tho his shooting percentage is better than kobe and tmac. get it man who's shooting better than who. if he's shooting 10-30 like you said wut does kobe and tmac shoot 10-40 come on man simply vince is a better shooter than both. he's shooting .45 with da nets</div> the numbers don't always tell the story, TMac is a better shooter than the three though anyways, not carter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">LBJ on the other hand is shooting .482 from the field</div> so what are you saying? Lebron's the better shooter of the 4? Mind you that he gets most of his points in the paint more than anyone else in the league other than Shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">The shooting percentage doesn't show what shots were taken from the floor. If that were the case, Shaq would be the best shooter in the league! Vince also has arguably the best playmaker on his team spoon feeding him and yet he still isn't dominating as much.</div> exactly what i was saying comrade.
First off, <div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post"> none of them are exceptional shooters.....LBJ on the other hand is shooting .482 from the field ..... best of any non PF / C</div> Nash shoots .506, so LBJ does not have the best FG% for a non-PF/C. I think athletically, they probably are all similar. However Jordan had the character, the work-ethic, the determination to win. He pushed himself to be like Mike.
my sources <div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">First off, Nash shoots .506, so LBJ does not have the best FG% for a non-PF/C. I think athletically, they probably are all similar. However Jordan had the character, the work-ethic, the determination to win. He pushed himself to be like Mike.</div> sorry my bad.....bad source.....stupid source....its still might impressive though.. actually now that i researched it, it is Ruben Patterson at .531 ... LBJ is twelfth
Wow, some of you seem to have some clouded visions of Vince Carter. Let me remind you that he is NOT injured right now and this is not 2003. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> VC had some really nice dunks in the past, but his shooting hasn`t been like it was in the past. As for T-Mac, he`s a terrific shooter but IMO, he can be streaky </div> That comment alone shows you know very little and about him as an athlete. Shot percentages don't always tell the story, I grew up watching Vince so I know how consistent his shot is compared to what it was and he's a WAY better outside/inside combo shooter then he was before. He has more confidence in his jumper now and if you don't believe me, judge him from his Nets games rather then his faded last Raptor days. And to say that "oh Vince has those 10-30 shooting nights" is bull because you look at the other premier guards in the league (yes yes, that even includes the ever so famed Lebron), he has off nights as well (I believe he shot 3-16 or something against the Sixers recently). Let me offer my insight to this topic... Jordan- Unparalleled in every category. I recently bought the air Jordan DVD set and its amazing to see how much he evolved his game from his rookie eyar. I mean, when I saw footage of his rookie year I was simply in awe at the things he would do in the air. I had only grown up watching the ending of the Bulls dynasty years and after Jordan had come back for the 1st time, his game and maturity at its peak where he used mentality rather then atheltic ability to beat teams and players. However, catching a glimpse of the old Jordan is quit amazing. But the thing that made him unique was his unquestionale desire to win and suceed. In order to suceed, he also realized he needed to change his game styles. From simply being a driver, he went to being a terrific mid range shooter then slowly added a somewhat streaky 3 point shot to his range and as time passed and age came into play, he thought of ways to still play and WIN the right way using other methods. On top of his evolution, he also started many trends, set many records, inspired many people and players, won dunk contests, and was tenacious on defense. He was an offensive force that was also a defensive force, and that is why he is and always was the best guard and arguebly the greatest ever. Kobe- the 2nd heir to Jordan's throne, no matter how quickly Lebron is catching up. He has the same characteristics as Jordan but lacks the respect by fans as well as some of his peers. If he wishes to prove himself furthermore, he's gonna have to study some Michael Jordan tapes circa 1990-1991 and learn from the original how to change your game enough to help others while still having great stats. Tracy Mcgrady- Once a great shot blocking prescence and a solid defensive threat, he is an offensive juggaurnaut now and doesn't play very much defense (well he didn't last year, not sure about this year). He is a streaky shooter but he can give you 30-40 points a game very easily. One thing he seems to be missing is the determination and will to suceed that Kobe posesses so he has and most likely will always be a step behind him (in my opinion, calm down Rocket fans). Vince Carter- Rejuvantion. Once swarmed with comparisons to Jordan, you need to realize he was never Jordan. He was a great dunker and had similar air time, buit lacked the fire, the pasison, the dedication and defensive intensity that Jordan carried throughout his career. However, Vince is a better 3 point shooter (no numbers to back it up, I have seen both of them play in depth and many of you would have to agree) and about the same as Jordan in passing ability. Carter has a great feel of finding players and knows how to pass without turning the ball over greatly. He's an underrated rebounder (especially showing with the recent double doubles he's been putting up) but the knock is he still can't win and lacks heart. I think he has won himself respect in the heart of many fans but the one thing tat seperates all these players from Jordan: SIX CHAMPIONSHIP RINGS AND THE GREAT INFLUENCE AND LEGACY HE POSESSED
jordan about MJ's shooting.....his career FG% was .455 but he did have 5 seasons where he shot over .500
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">about MJ's shooting.....his career FG% was .455 but he did have 5 seasons where he shot over .500</div> MJ's career FG% is .497.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say that vince has a "great stroke"? Do you watch him play or just watch the highlights and see the tough shots and not see the rest of his 10-30 shooting nights? He is shooting .434 on the season and he gets to the rim a lot more than most people so his jump shot percantage is much lower.</div> Wow, before Carter was soft and never wanted to drive, now he drives to the rim a lot more than most people? I guess it's a good thing though... <u>FG% on mid-range jumpers</u> McGrady - 41.4%, 49.5% of attempts Carter - 39.6%, 51.1% of attempts Kobe - 38.1%, 44.8% of attempts Lebron - 35.3%, 50.7% of attempts <u>eFG% on jumpers, midrange + three's</u> Carter - 45.9%, 70% of FG attempts McGrady - 44.2%, 77% of FG attempts Kobe - 41.4%, 72% of FG attempts Lebron - 39.3%, 66% of FG attempts The numbers support what I was going to say, which is good, the only bad thing is how Kobe and Tmac both take more jumpers overall than Carter and Lebron, but also both take less mid-range shots than them, too many three's boys, though three's help their eFG%. Carter's shooting is very underatted not because his jumper is like Ray Allen's or Michael Redd's, but because he's a very good shooter, but many people are stuck on the fact the he can dunk, or that he can slash. Every player has misses, I don't think him missing shots makes him a bad shooter. Tmac just shot 4-18 last night, doesn't make him a bad shooter. Carter is the best three point shooter of the three, McGrady the best mid-range shooter, and shooter overall, though Carter has a higher eFG% on his jumpers, and Kobe is good from mid-range and fairly good from 3, but not the best in either category. Kobe and Mcgrady are not the best shot selectors out their though, neither is Carter, but he's much better. As a Raptor I've seen Vince since he's been in the NBA, he's definately a good shooter from mid-range, and he's a very good three point shooter, even the numbers support him, career 38%, shot 40%+ in 3 seasons, and has only had 2 seasons under 38%, his rookie year, and an injury year where he shot 34.4%. This year is shooting 40% overall, and 42.8% from 3PT range as a Net. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">sorry my bad.....bad source.....stupid source....its still might impressive though.. actually now that i researched it, it is Ruben Patterson at .531 ... LBJ is twelfth</div> You should've only included players scoring 18+ PPG, Rubeun only lays up and dunks because he can't shoot too well. Also FG% is a pretty weak stat to tell the truth. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Once a great shot blocking prescence and a solid defensive threat, he is an offensive juggaurnaut now and doesn't play very much defense (well he didn't last year, not sure about this year). </div> Tmac's defense has been <u>about</u> on the same level as Kobe this season, it's actually a little less, but his team's style helps him to be about on that level. It goes Kobe, Tmac, then Carter. If Carter was able to bring the same defensive effort as them, he definately could be right up there, because offensively their's nothing holding him back. He's a good scorer, shooter, has been getting to the line 7.1 times a game as a Net. In February: 8.5 FT attempts In March: 9.3 FT attempts Last 5 games: 9.6 Ft attempts He's also a good passer, average rebounder, but only an average defender, but also doesn't have the same lateral quicks anymore, he could be better, but not on their level unless his lateral quicks improve. Tmac has improved a lot defensively though, people still have the misconception that he's playing his Orlando defense, but he's far from that this season. He's got a great all-round game, good defender, rebounder, passer, doesn't turn the ball over much, which is one of the better things about him, he's never even averaged up to 3 turnovers a game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Semmi:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince Carter is also known for his whining.....as is Kobe Bryant...</div> actually, you meant Ray Allen. Guy's probably the biggest baby in basketball.
Well they all are pretty much known for whining, Vince, Tmac, Ray, and I don't know about Kobe whining, but he has his stuff too, ah well...
T-Mac definantly helps the players around him get better especially on offense. Compare David Wesley, Mike James, and Jon Barry's FG% and 3pFG% on the Rockets to their percentages before the trade, and Sura, Yao, and Mutombo's percentages to last year. All the players are shooting much better. James - 45.6/44.6% for Houston Compared to 44.6/38.2% for Milwaukee Wesley - 42%/40.7% vs 38.9%/35% with NO Barry - 46.4%/47.6% vs 40.3%/34.4% with ATL Sura - 42.1%/33% vs 41.6/26.6% last year Yao - 55% vs 52% last year Mutombo - 50% vs 48% last year and 38% 2 years ago
you might say that about Kobe if you're just looking at stats. Chucky/Caron/Mihm/Jumaine are all having career years, and Odom's having a rock solid season...
David Wesley was playing on the Hornets, and was the first option due to injury, what would he be expected to shoot? Mike James FG% is worse in Houston, but his 3PT% is slightly better, overall, his shooting efficiency is basically the same. Sura has had marginal improvement, not anything noteworthy, and Yao improved more by himself, and the fact that he's not playing with Francis but Tmac. Mutombo was injured 2 years ago, broken wrist or whatever, and his percentages mean nothing as he's not a scoring option. Not saying McGrady doesn't make teamamtes better, but your way of analyzing it is not fully accurate. Kobe's teammates also improved, but Chucky Atkins shot better with him out, he was shooting 48-50% in that span. Jumanie Jones' percentages are up, but comparison's to last year are irrelevant as he was injured, but Kobe helps him with three point kickouts. Same with Caron Butler, he got removed from the Miami offense, and it's common sense for his FG% in comparison to his rookie year to go up as he went from being the 1st option as a rookie [EJ got injured] to being the 3rd option on the Lakers. He also improved his mid-range jumpshot, and defensive attention as a 1st and 3rd option is very different. The only improvement I see is Odom, but his scoring is also down, and him and Kobe don't really compliment each other. I'd say for their respective teams this season, Tmac helps his teammates and compliments them more than Kobe, but Kobe is doing an okay job himself I guess.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">The underlying difference is all of those players had a chance to watch and emmulate Jordan. Jordan invented Jordan by constantly adding to his game offensively and defensively. Also GiantMidget made a great point, Jordan was the master of headgames and he moved better without the ball. His will to win was off the charts and was only matched by his basketball IQ.</div> It was his headgames that gave him the edge over everyone mentioned. Jordan would make you think you lost even before the game started. There are players who are coming out who will be more athletic and possibly more talented physically than Jordan, but I haven't seen anyone who could WILL another team to lose. Jordan could do that...
if you were to compaire players to michael jordan(which you shouldnt do in the first place) the only player in the nba i would compare would be lebron. kobe and vince wine way to much. vinch adn tmac have absolutly no defensive skill. and none of those three can carry their team to the playoffs, tmac couldnt do it with orlando, kobe aint doin it with la, vince couldnt do it with toronto or the nets, but the only one that is doing any of that right now is Lebron. if i could compare anyplayer of today with michael it would be tim duncan but because he's a PF, i would just compare lebron to him
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umer remU:</div><div class="quote_post">if you were to compaire players to michael jordan(which you shouldnt do in the first place) the only player in the nba i would compare would be lebron. kobe and vince wine way to much. vinch adn tmac have absolutly no defensive skill. and none of those three can carry their team to the playoffs, tmac couldnt do it with orlando, kobe aint doin it with la, vince couldnt do it with toronto or the nets, but the only one that is doing any of that right now is Lebron. if i could compare anyplayer of today with michael it would be tim duncan but because he's a PF, i would just compare lebron to him</div> If Vince came to the Nets earlier they would be in the playoffs. T-Mac couldn't do it because he had HORRIBLE teammates, Kobe's the only one doing anything on the team, and Lebrons got the best teammates out of all of them (Not talking about T-Mac's Houston because this guy is talking about his last season). Why even think about comparing Duncan with Jordan? I have no idea.
