<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe honestly didn't like Shaq and the fact that there was another dominant force on the team, then it's my guess that he was thinking "Finally, there's not another big name star player on the team with a big time ego. Yet I have Odom, Butler, and Grant to work with, who are very solid players but not big enough stars to steal my limelight."</div> In all reality we don't know if he likes the trade or not. He might like the players that he got, or he might think that he can't do anything with them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're not giving him enough credit. Who are you to predict the future? Could you have predicted that the Pistons would have won the championship this year <font size="1">(fan bias aside)</font>? Who knows what Kobe could do on his own? He may actually shine with the pressure all on him for once. He's very comparable to Michael Jordan. At this point in their career, it's even arguable that he is better than Jordan was.</div> How dare you bring up my fan bias? I couldn't have predicted the future, but I did think that we had a strong shot to win, along with the Spurs and Lakers (If they were able to play as a team) I wouldn't say that he is comprable to Jordan. He may shine, but he won't lead his team. From what he has shown us, so far he is not capable of that. If you win 3 championships in a row, you shut up and live with the big man. When people tell you that the big man is responsible for the championships, you don't argue because they are right. Look at the playoffs in the West. All of the top seeds had excellent big men. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jordan didn't win championships on his own. He had one hell of a supporting cast along the way - Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Armstrong, Kukoc, Harper, Longley, etc. There were two or three other all-stars playing along with him during his tenure on the Bulls. Now, I'm not saying he wasn't the best player to ever play the game, as it's obvious he was. You're giving him too much credit though. He never won a championship completely on his own. He always won them with supporting casts better than what the Clippers currently have. So if Kobe went to the Clippers and didn't win a championship, don't be so quick to pass judgement on him. One player rarely wins a championship on his own. It takes a great supporting cast as well.</div> Jordan didn't win the championships on his own, but he was clearly the leader and best player on the team. Without Jordan, the Bulls would not have won the championships, even if you replace him with another all-star. The Lakers could have won 3 in a row without Kobe, especially if you replace him with another all-star. As for the Clippers supporting cast, it isn't that bad. They have Brand, Kaman, and Maggette. That is a good young group to work with, very comprable to Odom, Butler, and Grant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Even if he signs a six-year deal and underachieves on the Clippers, he'll still have a great career left after that contract is up. Kobe is a young kid, and I think that fact is overlooked a lot.</div> Will he have a career left? Sure. However, he is almost 26 right now, and in 6 years he will be 32. That is starting to get near the age of a decline, especially for big men, but for guards too. The fact is that Kobe has not proven himself and that is what he wants to do. Whatever people think, Shaq clearly helped Kobe become a superstar. He took the pressure off of Kobe and let him more around more freely. Kobe never had to take the team on his back during the playoffs, maybe nail a few clutch shots, but that is it. Shaq led the team and the success can be attributed to Shaq. Kobe is flawed in the fact that he wants to be the only leader on the team, the one responsible. That is not how it should be, it is a team and everybody is responsible for every win AND loss. Now that he won't have a dominant big man who can get you a solid 21.5/11.5 every night while opening up the whole floor from people double teaming him.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting notMuchgame:</div><div class="quote_post">The problem with this is that you are giving into Buss and making Kobe the scapegoat...If indeed Kobe never told him to make these moves, the what Buss has done is make moves in order to put public pressure on Kobe to re-sign....</div> I agree with you. If I were the General Manager of the Lakers in the 2003-04 season, I would have adressed the problem then and there. I would have traded Kobe for a big name like McGrady, Kidd, or Iverson. If an opportunity like that never presented itself, and it looked like I'd need to tear apart my entire team to bring him back then I'd simply tell him to walk. With the cap space I could sign a player like Kenyon Martin. A team frontcourt of O'Neal and Martin would arguably be more dominant than a team with O'Neal in the frontcourt and Kobe in the backcourt. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Kobe picks the Clippers and fails, he will receive less criticism than if he stays with the Lakers and fails. If he fails with the Lakers everyone will say that it is because Shaq left, that Kobe took him for granted, and that Kobe really cant lead a team. It all depends on whether or not Kobe wants the challenge of winning on the Lakers without Shaq. It's similar to the Jerry west situation. He left LA because expectations were high and it was too stressful. In Memphis people were pleased with Mediocrity. If Kobe goes to the Clippers and makes them a playoff team, people will be pleased, even if the only managed 7th or 8th seed.</div> Great points! :thumbsup: Everywhere Kobe goes, he'll have his haters. It'd just be hard to hate him for failing as a Clipper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe didn't tell our owner to make these moves, but I would think if he has wishes of leading a team and a great franchise all together where he'd definitely be the new savior of LA so to speak, it'll be the Lakers</div> He'd have just as good of chances of doing the same with the Clippers. The Lakers have a great legacy. They are remembered for Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Jerry, Shaq, Worthy, and many other great players. If he goes to the Clippers though, all they have to show for their history is Elton Brand. He can really define his legacy with the Clippers and make that team his. Let's face it, the Lakers will never be known as Kobe's team. At least not with the past they have. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">that team has loads of talent from almost every position, (if you want to cancel out Chris Kaman of course)</div> I'll be honest with you, this quote makes me mad. Chris Kaman is one hell of a basketball player, and I'm tired of seeing him being steriotyped as the dorky white stiff. He's one hell of a ball player and one of last year's best rookies. He has a great future in the league, and for you to make a comment like that you come off as racist. I know you meant it in a lighthearted way as a joke, but you need to think about saying stuff like that before you post it. You could offend a lot of people <font size="1">(myself included)</font>. Ever since the hip-hop elements have been introduced to the game (headbands, cornrows, baggy shorts, etc.), the white player is commonly looked upon as the goofy guy on the team or the one talentless waste of space. The fact of the matter is that the real wastes of space are Melvin Ely and Chris Wilcox. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">We can't compare Derek to Kobe because all Fisher wants to do is start on a team, and even though I did slam Fisher on this before, I guess I can understand how he feels about it. Because if I were once the starting point guard back in the good old days of a dynasty, and my role was sixth man, I'd be pretty hurt myself. But as for Kobe, it's like this: Stay with the Lakers, play until your late 30's and become a legend, or go to the Clippers and become the TMac of the Clips. Guess we have another two hours from now</div> They are comparable in the seense that at the end of the day they are both basketball players who are just looking out for themselves and what would be in their best interests.
One thing's for sure If Kobe decides to sign with the Clippers I would expect David Stern to say the following at the 2005 NBA draft With the 1st pick in the 2005 NBA draft the Los Angeles Lakers select Nemanja Aleksandrov from Serbia, Belgrade.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AllNet:</div><div class="quote_post">One thing's for sure If Kobe decides to sign with the Clippers I would expect David Stern to say the following at the 2005 NBA draft With the 1st pick in the 2005 NBA draft the Los Angeles Lakers select Nemanja Aleksandrov from Serbia, Belgrade.</div> What I'll be rooting for is... Nemanja isn't in the draft because of the recent age limit. Not only that, but the Lakers only got a mid-lottery pick so were destined to settle for a mediocre player that would have been a second rounder if the age limit hadn't been passed.
Bad news, I heard through the grapevine the deal with Clippers is going to be announced today. They have purchased 3 homes off the record for him on top of the contract.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'll be honest with you, this quote pisses me off. Chris Kaman is one hell of a basketball player, and I'm tired of seeing him being steriotyped as the dorky white stiff. He's one hell of a ball player and one of last year's best rookies. He has a great future in the league, and for you to make a comment like that you come off as racist. I know you meant it in a lighthearted way as a joke, but you need to think about saying stuff like that before you post it. You could offend a lot of people <font size="1">(myself included)</font>. Ever since the hip-hop elements have been introduced to the game (headbands, cornrows, baggy shorts, etc.), the white player is commonly looked upon as the goofy guy on the team or the one talentless waste of space. The fact of the matter is that the real wastes of space are Melvin Ely and Chris Wilcox. </div> I agree with everything you said, except the end. Chris Wilcox is no waste of space, he's a damn good player who has the potential to be a very productive player. The same can probably be said for Ely, on a smaller scale of course.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Phreeze:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with everything you said, except the end. Chris Wilcox is no waste of space, he's a damn good player who has the potential to be a very productive player. The same can probably be said for Ely, on a smaller scale of course.</div> They are both players with great potential, but compared to Kaman and Brand they are wastes. I didn't mean it too litetrally. I was just putting it in perspective. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They have purchased 3 homes off the record for him on top of the contract.</div> <font size="4">Is that a joke?</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">They are both players with great potential, but compared to Kaman and Brand they are wastes. I didn't mean it too litetrally. I was just putting it in perspective. <font size="4">Is that a joke?</font></div> I got the info from one of my friends in the sports industry. He also told me Shaq was going to Miami, but I didn't believe him. According to his sources, the Clippers and Kobe are a done deal and the 3 homes was part of it.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll be honest with you, this quote pisses me off. Chris Kaman is one hell of a basketball player, and I'm tired of seeing him being steriotyped as the dorky white stiff. He's one hell of a ball player and one of last year's best rookies. He has a great future in the league, and for you to make a comment like that you come off as racist. I know you meant it in a lighthearted way as a joke, but you need to think about saying stuff like that before you post it. You could offend a lot of people <font size="1">(myself included)</font>. Ever since the hip-hop elements have been introduced to the game (headbands, cornrows, baggy shorts, etc.), the white player is commonly looked upon as the goofy guy on the team or the one talentless waste of space. The fact of the matter is that the real wastes of space are Melvin Ely and Chris Wilcox.</div> Wait a minute, you actually thought I was making this out to be racial against Chris Kaman? Give me a break. You have absolutely no reason to even attempt to be offended in any way possible. I just don't think he has enough game to impress me enough that he's a decent center...I'm not putting him down because he's a "dorky white player" and that I'm somewhat racist towards him. That comment towards me is pathetic, and I don't appreciate that.
At first, I wanted him to choose the Lakers so that the Clippers will entertain trade talks for Kittles. In that way, we'll have more money to match the max for KMart. But now that there seems to be a trade soon, I'd want Kobe to sign for the Clippers and force them to play 10-12 games in an arena closer to his home. What a diva.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">According to his sources, the Clippers and Kobe are a done deal and the 3 homes was part of it.</div> If this is really true, I'll look into it at 12:00 p.m. PT and hear the official announcement. A once proud Laker franchise soon might be thrown into the gutter. My goodness.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Emo:</div><div class="quote_post">Wait a minute, you actually thought I was making this out to be racial against Chris Kaman? Give me a break. You have absolutely no reason to even attempt to be offended in any way possible. I just don't think he has enough game to impress me enough that he's a decent center...I'm not putting him down because he's a "dorky white player" and that I'm somewhat racist towards him. That comment towards me is pathetic, and I don't appreciate that.</div> I have no reason to attempt to be offended? Why? Because there can't be racial comments about white guys or something? Don't call my comments pathetic and try to spin the tables. How can you possibly see him as a not being major contributer, or as their worst player. What the hell impresses you if being one of the top ten rookies doesn't? It sounded a lot more like one of those Mark Madsen, Christian Laettner, etc. type of jokes than an actual serious comment.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">I have no way to be offended? Why? Because there can't be racial comments about white guys or something? Don't call my comments pathetic and try to spin the tables. How can you possibly see him as a not being major contributer, or as their worst player. What the hell impresses you if being one of the top ten rookies doesn't? It sounded a lot more like one of those Mark Madsen, Christian Laettner, etc. type of jokes than an actual serious comment.</div> Listen, where did my comments appear as racial? Did I slam the guy for being a white center in a black man's game?? All I said was I didn't think the man had game, in my opinion, and as a young player in this league he can improve on his skills, and not about the color of his skin. You are being TOO sensitive about this, and you have absolutely nothing to be upset about. I for one aren't a racist, let me make that clear, but even if I was a racist, you'd hear me criticizing players like with those you just mentioned....Madsen, Laettner, and Wang Zhi-Zhi, with stupid insensitive comments. Geez, people getting TOO sensitive nowadays. Relax.
hrm I understand how you Laker fans must feel to lose someone like Kobe. I live in LA and most of the fans here like the Lakers..why? Because they are the winning team? People tend to forget we have 2 teams and I want Kobe to go to the Clippers so the Clippers can actually make the playoffs!! Either way he goes I'm happy I just prefer the Clippers. And management should have realized that Kobe could have signed with another team and not to trade Shaq. Shaq wanted to leave anyway it wasnt managements fault.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Emo:</div><div class="quote_post">Listen, where did my comments appear as racial?</div> Emo, I know you didn't mean for your comments to be racial, but that's just how they appeared. When you single out one white guy who just had one of the ten best rookie seasons and has tons of potential as the one bad mark on a bad team, then that just comes off as racist. I know you just don't like Kaman's game, but there's so much reverse racism out there that something like that can easily be mistaken for racial slander. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did I slam the guy for being a white center in a black man's game??</div> The game may be played by more blacks per capita, but baseball may also be played by more Asians per capita than Americans. Does that make it Asia's game? I think that the whole black man's game thing is a false steriotype that holds a lot of white kids down from being good basketball players. Basketball started off being invented by a white guy and was early on 100% white. Just because there are a lot more successful black players today, it's labled a black man's game. That holds a lot of kids back who hear someone in the media say that and think that it's not for them. I know how it can hold someone back saying that white men can't jump or white men can't play basketball. It can really discourage something. Basketball was invented by a white and is now played by a lot of blacks. That doesn't mean it's a white or black game. It's a game of all colors. Chris Kaman is every bit better than Melvin Ely and Chris Wilcox, and it's every bit his game just as it is their game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All I said was I didn't think the man had game, in my opinion, and as a young player in this league he can improve on his skills, and not about the color of his skin.</div> I don't get how you can not see how Kaman has skills. Give him five years and he'll be in All-Star contention. Even if you looked at him now, you'd have to admire his talent. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You are being TOO sensitive about this, and you have absolutely nothing to be upset about. I for one aren't a racist, let me make that clear, but even if I was a racist, you'd hear me criticizing players like with those you just mentioned....Madsen, Laettner, and Wang Zhi-Zhi, with stupid insensitive comments. Geez, people getting TOO sensitive nowadays. Relax.</div> I know you aren't racist. I never accused you of being racist. You can make a racially charged statement without being a racist though. I also realize that the statement you made was most likely not racially charged, but I thought it was because that's how it looked. I was just pointing out how a lot of people have that common misconception that white players are dorky. Anyway, let's put this behind us as a missunderstanding... <font size="6">10 minutes for Kobe!</font>
