"Just let me do me. I want to be the best I can be. Michael is Michael. He's the greatest player ever. You gotta let me be me. We're different people." <div><object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pmAmjuT4Jlg&"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pmAmjuT4Jlg&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350" /></embed></object></div>
Empirically, I don't see a great case for West. (Blah blah pace-adjusted numbers, you know the deal with me) And this victory was far from Kobe's fault. Living up to the Jordan name is tough, I don't see the shame in not being as great. Either way this thread is premature.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake @ Jun 13 2008, 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>He is a she. And She is Ice.</div> He is a stalker. And He is Master Shake.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (huevonkiller @ Jun 13 2008, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Empirically, I don't see a great case for West. (Blah blah pace-adjusted numbers, you know the deal with me) And this victory was far from Kobe's fault. Living up to the Jordan name is tough, I don't see the shame in not being as great. Either way this thread is premature.</div> I wouldn't lay all of the blame on Kobe, but you mean to tell me Great players are not supposed to take over the 4th quarter in the finals and win the game? they aren't supposed to get a for sure score when the other team is on a run to stop the bleeding? Especially in their prime? any legend of the game did it when they were in their prime. This was Kobe's time to step up and go on a scoring spree, screw the offense. Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah Thomas all did it when it was time, that's why they're remembered as champions. As for the adjustment for pace etc.. do you adjust today's game vs the slow down no one scores 100 ppg 90's era? Does that mean Jordan's, Drexler's, Malone's, Ewing's, Robinson's numbers should be adjusted up? Screw adjustments, West was a player! He'd achieve great numbers in any era
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Shake @ Jun 13 2008, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Holy crap and Jesus, it's Ice! Welcome back buddy! Make sure you stick around!</div> Hello darling! Did you go by another user name?
All I know is Kobe is the best player on the universe at the moment and I don't see King James surpassing him. (not until he wins a couple of rings at least)
A few notes... A) Kobe is still the best player in the world B) Kobe was never as good as Jordan C) The game wasn't all Kobe's fault but if you're going to credit Kobe for your victories you have to blame him for the losses. My honest opinion is that Kobe didn't get going AT ALL early enough to turn on the jets in the 4th. You don't go from 0 to 60 when you start the car. I mean he didn't even score a basket in the first half..and you're expecting him to score like 30 in the 4th quarter? But this one definitely is 50/50 between him and his teammates. He didn't hit shots early, disabling his ability to takeover the game late. And his teammates didn't hit shots when Paul Pierce SHUT HIM DOWN. That's right, Paul Pierce shut him down.
just to make my point clear to everyone, my argument was never that Kobe was better than MJ. I simply said he had more moves in his arsenal (which I still stand behind). With that being said MJ was better a.) defensively b.) at leading his team c.) at driving to the basket d.) shot selection but yeah the debate will be dead for a while now......
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>All I know is Kobe is the best player on the universe at the moment and I don't see King James surpassing him. (not until he wins a couple of rings at least)</div> I really don't think Jame's needs rings to validate him being better than Kobe. I hate to say it, but Kobe is still seen as the guy riding shaq's coat tails to 3 titles......
Shaq without Kobe or Wade, wouldn't have any rings. Remember he went to the finals with the Magic but couldn't win. I really believe that they complimented each other very well and thats how they won the rings. All I know is Kobe will win rings in the next few years, and that will be without the big fella. (the diesel)
Kobe, to me, is a horrible teammate. All that garbage we were fed all year about how great of a teammate and leader he is..hogwash to me. When the going gets rough its too much finger pointing, whining, yelling and selfishness. Kobe is the best player in the league and is a lockdown defender but I just think as a person he's a straight up asshole. That halftime piece with Kobe and his family was so fake and fabricated it wasn't even funny. He tried to clean up his image and the league tried to clean up his image because they lack a "face"..but it's all hogwash. When the going gets rough as I said he's a terrible teammate and resorts to the old crap he used to pull. I still can't believe he won the Most Valuable Player after his antics at the beginning of the season. Now we're seeing the real Kobe Bryant.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq without Kobe or Wade, wouldn't have any rings. Remember he went to the finals with the Magic but couldn't win. I really believe that they complimented each other very well and thats how they won the rings. All I know is Kobe will win rings in the next few years, and that will be without the big fella. (the diesel)</div> yes, but everyone outside of my idol has had another allstar next to them when they won titles.....the point is Shaq was the man on those teams......... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe, to me, is a horrible teammate. All that garbage we were fed all year about how great of a teammate and leader he is..hogwash to me. When the going gets rough its too much finger pointing, whining, yelling and selfishness. Kobe is the best player in the league and is a lockdown defender but I just think as a person he's a straight up asshole. That halftime piece with Kobe and his family was so fake and fabricated it wasn't even funny. He tried to clean up his image and the league tried to clean up his image because they lack a "face"..but it's all hogwash. When the going gets rough as I said he's a terrible teammate and resorts to the old crap he used to pull. I still can't believe he won the Most Valuable Player after his antics at the beginning of the season. Now we're seeing the real Kobe Bryant.</div> I think you're being a lil too harsh here.........
Well it's quite clear 1 player cannot win a championship by themself, Jordan can't guard 5 players, Shaq can't guard 5 players, Magic Johnson can't guard 5 players. I would say that there are few big men ever who could score down low like Shaq, but there are a lot more options in scoring swingmen to pair with Shaq like Vince Carter, Pierce, Tracy McGrady, Wade, Kobe, Ray Allen, Ginobli, whoever. If I had to choose a starting piece to build a championship team I would pick a in his prime Shaq before a in his prime Kobe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jun 14 2008, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well it's quite clear 1 player cannot win a championship by themself, Jordan can't guard 5 players, Shaq can't guard 5 players, Magic Johnson can't guard 5 players. I would say that there are few big men ever who could score down low like Shaq, but there are a lot more options in scoring swingmen to pair with Shaq like Vince Carter, Pierce, Tracy McGrady, Wade, Kobe, Ray Allen, Ginobli, whoever. If I had to choose a starting piece to build a championship team I would pick a in his prime Shaq before a in his prime Kobe.</div> The funny thing is before this series all Lakers fans and Kobe fans were telling us that LA was going to dominate this series and win in 5 because of Kobe and just because of Kobe. Then when we told them they couldn't win a title on the shoulders of one player they told us that we were wrong because the Lakers had the "deepest team and deepest bench" in the league. Now they're once again blaming his lack of help and teammates and saying "it isn't Kobe's fault, he has no help" It's really funny how Lakers fans think and speak. Do they think before they speak?
