Kobe ran a 3 time championship team. To a degree, you have to be unselfish to do that. I agree kobe was never unselfish to lebron's level because that's not in his blood. Had kobe tried to be unselfish we would seriously be in some trouble. In the longtime you might say it'd be a positive but i doubt this team is going to be the same next season.Clyde Drexler was unselfish. Michael Jordan was unselfish in his prime (29 - 30s). James Worthy was unselfish. Jerry West was unselfishYou do realise that all these players are all on good teams. You do realise that Kobe's team is nothing compared to what the blazers were, the bulls were and the lakers were. Rip hamilton cannot be unselfish because he has 4 other legitemate teamates. When people say Kobe's selfish they usually bring up his assits count. Michael jordan is his final 3 years averaged less assits than kobe has now. Why isn't michael jordan accused of selfishness?I told you, their is a different set of laws for kobe bryant and michael jordan.And there's a reason no SG has ever been as good a passer as LeBron: He is amazing. he will be a top 5 player ever. He has the best chance of passing MJ since MJ. He has the best chance of being a top 5 player since MJ. He is one of a kind... Wait... Sorry... You wouldn't know...Lebron will not be better than michael jordan. When lebron can put up 35ppg and play lockdown defense, then will i admitt he'll be better than Michael. Lebron however has proven to be a great passer , great scorer but yet undecisive and cannot play D. Don't bring that garbage about him not playing D because he's 21, kobe at 21 was a lock down defender.When you're this good at 21, you can take some heat.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clutch_Melo_061 @ Apr 15 2006, 06:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe ran a 3 time championship team. To a degree, you have to be unselfish to do that. I agree kobe was never unselfish to lebron's level because that's not in his blood. Had kobe tried to be unselfish we would seriously be in some trouble. In the longtime you might say it'd be a positive but i doubt this team is going to be the same next season.Clyde Drexler was unselfish. Michael Jordan was unselfish in his prime (29 - 30s). James Worthy was unselfish. Jerry West was unselfishYou do realise that all these players are all on good teams. You do realise that Kobe's team is nothing compared to what the blazers were, the bulls were and the lakers were. Rip hamilton cannot be unselfish because he has 4 other legitemate teamates. When people say Kobe's selfish they usually bring up his assits count. Michael jordan is his final 3 years averaged less assits than kobe has now. Why isn't michael jordan accused of selfishness?I told you, their is a different set of laws for kobe bryant and michael jordan.And there's a reason no SG has ever been as good a passer as LeBron: He is amazing. he will be a top 5 player ever. He has the best chance of passing MJ since MJ. He has the best chance of being a top 5 player since MJ. He is one of a kind... Wait... Sorry... You wouldn't know...Lebron will not be better than michael jordan. When lebron can put up 35ppg and play lockdown defense, then will i admitt he'll be better than Michael. Lebron however has proven to be a great passer , great scorer but yet undecisive and cannot play D. Don't bring that garbage about him not playing D because he's 21, kobe at 21 was a lock down defender.When you're this good at 21, you can take some heat.</div> :rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Apr 15 2006, 11:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Sorry Jay. You've got to drop a sig.</div>its cool
Kobe ran a 3 time championship team. To a degree, you have to be unselfish to do that. Shaq "ran" them to the 3 championships, the 3 Finals MVPs backing me up. And no, he didn't have to be unselfish. You do remember how during those three years there were countless arguments between Shaq and Kobe because Kobe was being too selfish. You remember how the media was still up his butt at this time for being selfish don't you?I agree kobe was never unselfish to lebron's level because that's not in his blood. Had kobe tried to be unselfish we would seriously be in some trouble. In the longtime you might say it'd be a positive but i doubt this team is going to be the same next season.Again, you are discounting something LeBron does well to make Kobe look better. So you are saying that if Kobe was more unselfish when he had Shaq, he would be in serious trouble? In terms of this year, Steve Nash has shown that unselfishness creates positive results. Like I've said, Kobe taking 30 good shots is no problem to me, because he'll oribably hit half of them and end up with an efficient 40 points. However, there have been nights where he's went 8-29, 9-33, 9-27. Is that really necassary?You do realise that all these players are all on good teams. You do realise that Kobe's team is nothing compared to what the blazers were, the bulls were and the lakers were. Rip hamilton cannot be unselfish because he has 4 other legitemate teamates. When people say Kobe's selfish they usually bring up his assits count. Michael jordan is his final 3 years averaged less assits than kobe has now. Why isn't michael jordan accused of selfishness?I told you, their is a different set of laws for kobe bryant and michael jordanI don't care. You said no vetran SG has ever passed the ball unselfishly like LeBron, and I discounted that. Whether they're on a winning team or not doesn't matter, because throughout Kobe's career, whether he was on a Championhip squad or not, he has been selfish.Yes Michael Jordan averaged less assists, but he also averaged 4 less shots per contest. Plus, again bringing up the fact you don't watch games (Which I understand considering you live in Australlia, however you refuse to admit) Michael was unselfish as a scorer. He wasn't as unselfish as LeBron, as a point guard, but for a scorer, he was relatively unselfish. More so than Kobe. Plus, the "traingle" was ran through both Scottie and Jordan almost equally, probably on a 40/60 basis. For the Lakers this year however, Kobe gets the ball about 70% of the time when running the triangle. More basketball = more stats.Lebron will not be better than michael jordan. When lebron can put up 35ppg and play lockdown defense, then will i admitt he'll be better than Michael. Lebron however has proven to be a great passer , great scorer but yet undecisive and cannot play D. Don't bring that garbage about him not playing D because he's 21, kobe at 21 was a lock down defender.I said he had the most chance of passing Michael Jordan. Can you argue with that? Does any other player have a chance of passing MJ higher than LeBron? Is any other 21 year-old averaging 32, 7, and 7? That's what I thoughtAnd at 21, Kobe was not a lockdown defender. He was an inconsistent defender. Some nights he was great, some nights garbage. While his defense was slightly better than LeBron's, it was just as inconsistent.And why are you so certain Kobe was better at LeBron at this point? Again, he had Shaq. Plus, he only averaged 22, 5, and 6 to LeBrons 32, 7, and 7. LeBron is a superioir passer to Kobe than back then, he scored a near 10 points more, and got a board more per night. Plus, as the leader of his team, LeBron at 21 is currently leading the Cavs to 50+ wins and a 4th seed. At 21, Kobe was a 2nd option (However, he did have Shaq. Yet, he wasn't doing as much individually as LeBron for his team, which is my point)
LeBron is also the only person on his team,, well not excatly but he is the star, Kobe has not been the star on a team since last year, and look at him. he is better than LeBron, you are the one who are not watching games, Kobe passes it just as much as LeBron, his team mates do not hit shots or they pass it back and do not take open shots...I mean seriously, watch something other than sportscenter, ESPN is on LeBron's nuts, ofcourse theyw ill show himmaking passes and everything but Kobe mkaes them same passes, and plays defense and has a consistent shot!
Shaq "ran" them to the 3 championships, the 3 Finals MVPs backing me up. And no, he didn't have to be unselfish. You do remember how during those three years there were countless arguments between Shaq and Kobe because Kobe was being too selfish. You remember how the media was still up his butt at this time for being selfish don't you?Shaq was the man of the finals, kobe was the guy who destroyed the kings and the spurs. When they reached the nba finals, Shaq got to abuse the weak east centers. You do remember during those 3 years how much of a lazy bum Shaq was? How he refused to play defense or rebound if he didn't recieve the ball everytime down the court? They were both selfish people, don't make it seem Shaq wasn't.Again, you are discounting something LeBron does well to make Kobe look better. So you are saying that if Kobe was more unselfish when he had Shaq, he would be in serious trouble? In terms of this year, Steve Nash has shown that unselfishness creates positive results. Like I've said, Kobe taking 30 good shots is no problem to me, because he'll oribably hit half of them and end up with an efficient 40 points. However, there have been nights where he's went 8-29, 9-33, 9-27. Is that really necassary?No, you lack comprehension skills. I said if kobe were to try to play like lebron does on this current laker squad, this team would lose. I don't even think lebron would be unselfish on this team because he'd lose if he tried to play the same way.Yes Michael Jordan averaged less assists, but he also averaged 4 less shots per contest. Plus, again bringing up the fact you don't watch games (Which I understand considering you live in Australlia, however you refuse to admit) Michael was unselfish as a scorer. He wasn't as unselfish as LeBron, as a point guard, but for a scorer, he was relatively unselfish. More so than Kobe.1- Michael's teamates were not in the same league as Mj's was, his obviously not going to take the same shot. Kobe did not take 27 shots when we were winning championshps.2- MJ was seflish when he had crappy teamates, do not deny that. Heck he took like 27 shots also and people make it seem like kobe's 27 is a record.3- Lebron is unselfish, we all know that. I wanna see how long is going to continue to do that.I said he had the most chance of passing Michael Jordan. Can you argue with that? Does any other player have a chance of passing MJ higher than LeBron? Is any other 21 year-old averaging 32, 7, and 7? That's what I thoughtI don't even believe he has a chance, the boy doesn't play defense. He can put up 35-8-8 lifetime but if he can't play the other side of the ball then he won't.And why are you so certain Kobe was better at LeBron at this point? Again, he had Shaq. Plus, he only averaged 22, 5, and 6 to LeBrons 32, 7, and 7. LeBron is a superioir passer to Kobe than back then, he scored a near 10 points more, and got a board more per night. Plus, as the leader of his team, LeBron at 21 is currently leading the Cavs to 50+ wins and a 4th seed. At 21, Kobe was a 2nd option (However, he did have Shaq. Yet, he wasn't doing as much individually as LeBron for his team, which is my point Where did i say Kobe at the age was better than lebron? Kobe bryant was a better defender at this age, he was also more clutch. That's all Kobe had on him at the age of 21.I don't know how you can run a 3 time championship team and not be unselfish to some regard. The seflishness began when shaq got injured and kobe went onto the tear. Isn't kobe the same guy who took a step back in the nba finals so Shaq could get his prissing Nba finals mvp? Why didn't kobe take a run at the mvp?The fact is that Kobe during his whole career has had the ball in his hand. Phil is trying to get Odom to create kobe instead of kobe creating everything for himself. edit: Back in the day they used to broadcast the bulls on tv. Now however i catch most of the game online, there is a game on every day. I have watched Mj, not as much as you probably have but i've read testaments and the book " the jordan rules" . MJ was a selfish prick and that was hidden because he was a winner.
Once again, it is Kobe. Better defender, and more proven. This is VERY close, but Kobe is a more dynamic scorer, while Bron is more efficient. Bron is better passer and rebounder while Kobe is better defender. Both are just learning to be leaders.Kobe's 3 championships give him a very small advantage, as he was Shaq's Pippen. But, his 3 championships are what give him the advantage of being proven, along with the big shots he has hit in the past.Nontheless, arguably 2 of the best players in the NBA.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Apr 16 2006, 06:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Once again, it is Kobe. Better defender, and more proven. This is VERY close, but Kobe is a more dynamic scorer, while Bron is more efficient. Bron is better passer and rebounder while Kobe is better defender. Both are just learning to be leaders.Kobe's 3 championships give him a very small advantage, as he was Shaq's Pippen. But, his 3 championships are what give him the advantage of being proven, along with the big shots he has hit in the past.Nontheless, arguably 2 of the best players in the NBA.</div>And Lebron's only 21.
Exactly, which makes it so much more impressive that he is arguably best player in the league, and being compared to a person who I feel is probably the best in the league.I agree with KMart, bron has had the best chances of being better than MJ since his junior year in HS.
At this point in their careers i think that Lebron is Kobe's equal. Kobe is a slightly better scorer right now, just because his jumpshot is a little better than James. Kobe is better on defense, because when Kobe wants to play defense, he is as good as they come. I have said it in another thread, Kobe's defense is so fundamental, just the way people are taught to play. James however is a far superior passer. Not only because he passes more, but because his passes are so much more quick and crisp. He is one of the only people i see that can stand at the top of the key, and zip passes down to the low block without getting picked off. Lebrons knowledge of when to pass and what type of pass is better also. He knows when to bounce pass, and when to chest pass because of his court awareness. James is the better rebounder, because of his size, and bulk over Kobe, as well as how quick he is. James is fast enough to run down the long rebounds, and has the size and strength to bang a little down low to. As far as driving to the rim, i believe James is the best in the league right now at getting to the rim and finishing, better than both Wade and Kobe.
I don't buy it. Last year, was Kobe weakest defensive year because he had to recover from his knee injury/surgery late and had to get in shape as the season progressed. This year, he will be ready and in top shape. Losing 19 pounds, he's motivated and there is no surgery this offseason to stop him. Kobe is a better defender, believe me. Kobe just about always comes through down the stretch with clutch shots, while LeBron has his moments, but not quite there.Kobe has always been clutch: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hHCv0Vvcdm8^That doesn't even include his shots from last season.Kobe is also the more prolific scorer in the NBA. When he needs to turn his scoring up...he simply does. 4 straight 50 point games...my god. Doing that while shooting an average of 47% and dishing a few assists. The guy is incredible. LeBron is the better playmaker, that is all LeBron really has on Kobe at this point. Wait a few years, then maybe.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (valo35 @ Apr 23 2006, 04:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>At this point in their careers I think that Lebron is Kobe's equal. Kobe is a slightly better scorer right now, just because his jumpshot is a little better than James. Kobe is better on defense, because when Kobe wants to play defense, he is as good as they come. I have said it in another thread, Kobe's defense is so fundamental, just the way people are taught to play.</div>As you saw in the Finals, bron still has a LONG way to go before even being 2nd or 3rd best scorer in the league. if you have the proper defense to stop his driving, he has nothing as a scorer. He is a poor midrange jumpshooter (34%) and about the same from 3. He has no moves to get himself good looks from 15ft or so, so he is always taking ridiculously tough shots.Kobe, on the other hand, is unstoppable from anywhere. If you sag off on him, he will hit a few jumpshots, and that will ignite the fire that results in a 25pt quarter from him. if you play him close, he will just drive past you and get to the rim. He can shoot the 3 ball from 35ft and in, and he is not afraid to shoot it, so you have to guard him tough from the moment he steps beyond the halfcourt point.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>James however is a far superior passer. Not only because he passes more, but because his passes are so much more quick and crisp. He is one of the only people I see that can stand at the top of the key, and zip passes down to the low block without getting picked off. Lebrons knowledge of when to pass and what type of pass is better also. He knows when to bounce pass, and when to chest pass because of his court awareness. James is the better rebounder, because of his size, and bulk over Kobe, as well as how quick he is. James is fast enough to run down the long rebounds, and has the size and strength to bang a little down low to. As far as driving to the rim, I believe James is the best in the league right now at getting to the rim and finishing, better than both Wade and Kobe.</div>Passing is a bland term, I prefer playmaker. And while Bron has the edge there, it isn't like he is Jason Kidd. He tends to try to squeeze it into too tight of situations, and is not as good in initiating and running the offense as people make him out to be. Kobe has also become a very skilled passer, and is great at things like entry passes and intitiating the offense. But yes, Bron is definately a better playmaker than Kobe.Rebounding, Bron no doubt.Basically would you rather have the much more complete and effective scorer that can also lockdown the other team's top scorer and consistently take over in the clutch, or the better playmaker and rebounder? Give me Kobe Bryant anyday over LeBron, and it isn't even close. I put Bron safely at #4 in my top 5 players in the league.
You guys are forgetting the Cavs faced the SPURS. They were hot in the playoffs. No one man could've scored on that defense efficiently. NOBODY. No one was making plays for LeBron. And when HE was making plays no one was hitting their shot. What else is there to do? I doubt any other team BUT the Spurs would've stopped LeBron in the playoffs this past season. And Kobe is unstoppable? Refer to the '04 Finals. The only real thing Kobe has on LeBron is a consistent outside shot. LeBron is far more superior physically. It's not even close how much more athletic LeBron is. Combine that with his ballhandling and passing skills. It's difficult when you drive past Bowen and meet Duncan in the paint. Normally you pass to the open man. But nobody hit their shots. You're always gonna put Kobe over everyone else. Even when comparing to Jordan, you'd say, in terms of accomplishment MJ was better, but you'd always throw in the "But Kobe was more skilled" bullsh!t which is completely untrue. I'm pretty sure you believe Kobe is the most skilled player. And I can understand that because you're 17.
[quote name='Let Em Hear This' post='423494' date='Jul 23 2007, 10:14 PM']You guys are forgetting the Cavs faced the SPURS. They were hot in the playoffs. No one man could've scored on that defense efficiently. NOBODY.[/quote]And please explain to me WHY the Spurs were so effective? All Bowen did was sag off on Bron and make him shoot jumpers. Bron is a BAD jumpshooter, shooting 34% from midrange and around 33% from 3 for the season (for comparison, Kobe shoots 45% from midrange, Wade shoots 39%). If Bron had a reliable jumpshot, he would have forced Bowen to guard him closer, where he could have burned Bowen off the dribble and forced Duncan to foul him (much like Kobe did this year). This is correct as Larry Hughes was out for the series. But the Spurs defense is not unbreakable, even if you DO have to make plays for yourself and others (see: T-Mac 37pts in January without Yao). Bron doesn't have a jumpshot, so he cannot exploit Bowen's defensive weakness (depleted lateral quickness, strength). Hit an 18ft jumpshot. Bron struggled quite a bit vs the Nets and outside of game 5 vs the Pistons, did not score particularly well in that series either. Yes, he was horrible, but he is also a better scorer now and was guarded much differently than Bron was against the Spurs. Not to mention that year the Pistons had the toughest defense of the decade. The Spurs defense now is not the same Spurs defense of a few years ago...Bowen and Duncan are a step slower, and their roster as a whole is aging and doesn't have the athletic ability to defend great scorers whose jumpshots have to be respected. And...you know....defense. You know defense, the thing players do 50% of the time on the floor? And is also arguably the best clutch player in the game, while Bron clanks free throws and a poor decision maker down the stretch.I value those 2 things moreso than being a better playmaker and rebounder. Not to mention Kobe is clearly the better scorer. Umm, quote me where I said MJ is better only because he is more accomplished. I said Kobe is the more skilled (not better) scorer and that's IT. Stop being so paranoid about people being Kobe homers. The majority believe he is the best player in the league and 2nd best SG of all time. Are they all Kobe homers? Right. It seems like you are more of a hater than others are homers. You are the one who, whenever Kobe is brought up, has to be extremely defensive and attack others who disagree, labelling them "homers". Instead of worrying about who is a homer and how everyone is so biased toward Kobe, calm down and try and prove them wrong.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>". Instead of worrying about who is a homer and how everyone is so biased toward Kobe, calm down and try and prove them wrong.</div>Now that's a stretch. He convinces himself of things that he has invented in his own mind.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air23Baller @ Jul 25 2007, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>kobe</div>I agree, but would you like to validate that statement with a some sort of facts or an arguement ...something?
kobe is my fav. playerlebron is my 2nd fav. playerkobe has bad teamates and he qualified them alone to the Playoffs
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air23Baller @ Jul 25 2007, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>kobe is my fav. playerlebron is my 2nd fav. playerkobe has bad teamates and he qualified them alone to the Playoffs</div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Air23Baller @ Jul 25 2007, 01:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>kobe is my fav. playerlebron is my 2nd fav. playerkobe has bad teamates and he qualified them alone to the Playoffs</div>lolI gotta go with Kobe, Lebron is good, but he lacks in everything what Kobe has atm. In a few years, it will prob be Lebron. I also think that Lebron won't be as good as MJ.
