Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Feb 3 2007, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dude shutup your the exact same way with Kobe as you are with AI. You always tell people to watch the Mavs play when they say something you don't agree with. Stop contradicting yourself and actually watch Kobe play instead of assuming things. If you would actually stop being so biased against players you hate on and actually watch them maybe you wouldn't make yourself look olike an idiot.I find it funny how you only here Kobe haters ever call him a ball hog, or say he doesn't pass, etc. You never here that from anyone else.</div>Kobe>Iverson clearly. Iverson is the most overrated superstar in nba history. He hasn't made Denver any better. Kobe is a great player but I just think passing is not one of his strengths. The only reason he should pass is to prevent double and triple teams.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 2 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kobe>Iverson clearly. Iverson is the most overrated superstar in nba history. He hasn't made Denver any better. Kobe is a great player but I just think passing is not one of his strengths. The only reason he should pass is to prevent double and triple teams.</div>Tell me where I said Iverson is better than Kobe? I don't even consider AI a top 5 player in the league. Also quit saying he hasn't made Denver better will you. I mean damn he's been here for only a month and half of the time he spent it wih a supporting cast worse than what he had in Philly. Plus give me some real reasons why he is the most overrated superstar in NBA history. You don't even watch him play so you obviously can't give a reason. Like always you can assume things and just go by how you think Iverson plays. Second how the hell would you know if passing is not one of Kobe's strengths when you obviously don't watch him play.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability How do you know I don't watch them? I have watched both of them. I understand why you think of him as so much. He averages a lot of points, a lot of assist, and a lot of steals. Unfortunately that is not the best way to look at stats. Things like True Shooting Percentage (TS%), Assists/Turnover Ratio, and defense are the best ways to find the value of a superstar. Iverson is weak in all those areas compared to most players and that is why I don't think of him as a positive. Kobe is solid in TS% and defense but also weak in Assist/Turnover ratio.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Wow dude that is honestly insulting to say that I base everything off of Iversons stats. LOL I watch him 10x more than you and you obviously proved my point that you don't watch either player much since your using stats once again for everything in your arguement. Yes AI shoots a low %. The guy is fricken under 6' tall and a bulk of his points come from slashing. WTF do you expect him to do? Shoot 50+ % from the field? Same with defense. With Iversons size he is going to have a mismatch on D most of the time. As for turnovers that is the most overrated stat used against Iverson. Last season he had the ball in his hands more than any other player I believe. When a player has the ball in his hands that often of course he's gonna commit a higher amount of turnovers. Plus when playing with Melo his turnovers per game is down to 3 a game. Not bad for someone still play 40+ minutes a game. You are just using the same arguements the media uses against him. Does Iverson have flaws? Yes. Are the ones you pointed out good reasons to say he's incredibly overrated? Hell no. Especially when you look at what he can do. He is one of the greatest scorers of all time and has the ability to take over any game if he needs to. He had two straight 30 ppg and 7 apg seasons something even MJ never did. He was the 6th fastest player to ever reach 20,000 points. He has won an MVP award and the lowest he has ever fallen in the race was 11th place in his sophmore season. In 2001 Iverson lead a team with no legitimate second option to the NBA Finals. Iverson has done so many great things and to say he is the most overrated NBA star of all time especially when you don't watch him often(you said it yourself in one thread) to evaluate him is ridiculous.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Well obviously I don't have time to devote all my time on watching Iverson. I know that he is flashy with his dribble moves and crossovers. Stuff that looks good but efficiency is everything. Nash and Parker are the best small men in the nba imo because of this. You bash me for looking at his stats but than you bring up his stats later. It would've been much more impressive if Iverson shot 50% while averaging 20 points than 41% and averaging 30 points. His team would find much more success with this.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 2 2007, 11:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well obviously I don't have time to devote all my time on watching Iverson. I know that he is flashy with his dribble moves and crossovers. Stuff that looks good but efficiency is everything. Nash and Parker are the best small men in the nba imo because of this. You bash me for looking at his stats but than you bring up his stats later. It would've been much more impressive if Iverson shot 50% while averaging 20 points than 41% and averaging 30 points. His team would find much more success with this.</div>WOW THANKS FOR PROVING MY POINT! You clearly have not watched AI recently and you proved it. AI is not a flashy type of dribbler or player anymore. You are basing everything off the younger Iverson that the media still makes him out to be. People like you that don't watch him don't realize how much he's matured in the last few seasons. Also tell me how Iversons team would be better if he scored less. First off since AI has been in Denver he has been shooting 45% from the field. Not 41%. Second since Melo has returned AI has been averaging around 23 or 24 ppg. Sure he shot a lower % in Phily but if he would've scored less than the team would've had less success. Iverson has never had one good second option on offense to pass to. For Philly to have the best chance of winning Iverson had to take the scoring load. Once again you are basing everything off of the younger Iverson. He doesn't play the way you seem to think he does anymore, something you would know if you actually watched him. Stop thinking you know players you don't even watch better than your fans.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Well 45% is a bigimprovement but 50% is something special. Iverson will never shoot that well so to me Nash and Parker are better. As you've mentioned Iverson is undersized but still he lacks the shooting skills to be the best or close to the best. We'll see if he keeps up 45% shooting or if that drops. I can't imagine a player that is undersized and isn't a pure shooter to be a top 10 player. I'm sure he is more matured now like you said but there is only so much you can do at that size. If Iverson is such a great slasher than 50% is usually a common number for these type of players or somewhere around there. Wade is 48% I believe.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 3 2007, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well 45% is a bigimprovement but 50% is something special. Iverson will never shoot that well so to me Nash and Parker are better. As you've mentioned Iverson is undersized but still he lacks the shooting skills to be the best or close to the best. We'll see if he keeps up 45% shooting or if that drops. I can't imagine a player that is undersized and isn't a pure shooter to be a top 10 player. I'm sure he is more matured now like you said but there is only so much you can do at that size. If Iverson is such a great slasher than 50% is usually a common number for these type of players or somewhere around there. Wade is 48% I believe.</div>Wade is also 4 inches taller and a hell of a lot stronger. Plus Tony Parker better than AI? LOL that is a complete joke. You overrate fg % so much. Tony Parker has never had to lead a team like the Sixers. He has never been in a situation like AI was. I would love to see how worse the Sixers would've been if they had Parker instead of AI. That is one of the biggest jokes I've ever read.BTW I love how are smartest members here who watch a lot of AI have AI as a top 10 player but you someone that rarely watches him thinks your right and their not.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Well Parker is one heck of a point guard. I think you underrating his worth. He plays defense better than Iverson and is a better finisher. 2 things I think are very important. Iverson gets to the line a lot and takes a lot of shots for which of he'll score than. I don't agree with a lot of people but that is fine. Parker can't carry a team but Iverson can't shoot 50%. Why do you think efficiency is overrated?
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 3 2007, 12:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Parker is one heck of a point guard. I think you underrating his worth. He plays defense better than Iverson and is a better finisher. 2 things I think are very important. Iverson gets to the line a lot and takes a lot of shots for which of he'll score than. I don't agree with a lot of people but that is fine. Parker can't carry a team but Iverson can't shoot 50%. Why do you think efficiency is overrated?</div>I said I think your overrating fg %. I mean cmon your saying Tony Parker is ebtter because he shoots a higher fg%. He also shoots a hell of a lot less and hasn't had to worry about doing the bulk of the scoring load his whole career. Plus are you saying that if you had to choose between a player who has proven to be able to carry a team and a player who shoots a high % while shooting a lot less you would take the second player? Because that's pretty much what you just said in your post.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 3 2007, 12:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Parker is one heck of a point guard. I think you underrating his worth. He plays defense better than Iverson and is a better finisher. 2 things I think are very important. Iverson gets to the line a lot and takes a lot of shots for which of he'll score than. I don't agree with a lot of people but that is fine. Parker can't carry a team but Iverson can't shoot 50%. Why do you think efficiency is overrated?</div>I'm saying your overrating fg%. Your basically choosing Parker over Iverson because of the fact that Parker shoots a higher % even though he also shoots a hell of a lot less. Also you just basically said that you would rather pick a player that shoots a higher fg% than a player that has proven to be able to lead a team.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability If there's a big enough percentage gap between the 2 and the point differential isn't too extreme. Like if someone average like 6 points a game only which than the percentages don't matter much. Parker's field goal percentage is pretty amazing for a small guy. 52.7% He probably should try to take up more of the offense and Ginobili less of the offense. Parker averages 19 points which isn't as good as last year but still enough imo. That along with being better on defense is why I pick Parker over Iverson.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Kobe's smarthe uses his advantages to create more advantageshe forces other teams to actually guard the other players on the team now because of his passing ability..so that the whole defense doesn't collapse on him
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Mavsfan, Are you pulling a practical joke ? This thread is full of quotes sig worthy by mavsfan. I'll be adding them to my sig to.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 6 2007, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Go ahead and use them. I don't care. Wade>Kobe and Parker>Iverson.</div> That last comparision is a joke. How on earth is Tony parker a better player?Is it because Pop had to told him to pass more because he was taking to many shots?Or is it because of his supposed defense even though the spurs have great team defense, great rotation? Is it because every time you attack Parker on defense, his whole game goes upside down? Is it because Tony parker is sooo clutch in the playoffs that he lead his team to the nba finals with role players along his side?Is it because Tony parker is a better shooter? AI back when he used to play sg used to come off screens and hits jumpers. Tony parker does that in his freams.Infact, Tony parker does nothing better than allen iverson. You're on crack if you even think he is in Iverson's league.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability All Parker needs is a pick and he'll take jumper or go to the basket. Unstoppable to most players in the league. Harris is one of the few that can bother him but Parker is always making a high percentage of his shots. Something Iverson could never say he did. Get this in your head. Quality shots>Quantity shots. Parker passes just as much as Iverson does also.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Feb 6 2007, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>All Parker needs is a pick and he'll take jumper or go to the basket. Unstoppable to most players in the league. Harris is one of the few that can bother him but Parker is always making a high percentage of his shots. Something Iverson could never say he did. Get this in your head. Quality shots>Quantity shots. Parker passes just as much as Iverson does also.</div>Blah. Iverson can hit jumpers without picks. He can pull up whenever he wants to . He takes alot of reckless shots but again, do not doubt the talent. He is more talented than parker in every facet of the game.Secondly, no-one cares about effeciency when the other player couldn't keep up the effeciency if he took more shots. Case in fact, Iverson averaged 30+ last year on 45% shooting. Do you honestly think with Parker's weaker offensive game that he could actually average 30+ and keep up the effeciency?There is much more to taking alot of shots than taking alot of shots. You need stamina. You need to be mentallty tough and stick to your gameplan. Parker Has never shown he can be a lethal scorer consistenly. So in this fact, I don't care about Quality because the sample is too small. Let's see how parker would do taking 20 shots a game.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability By your standards, Kevin martin is the better scorer than wade and kobe because he is more effecient. Get real. Effeciency is overrated.
Re: Kobe's Passing Ability Wow I didn't know Kevin Martin was that good. The kings problem though is defense and not offense. Wade and Kobe are efficient players. Iverson isn't. Parker to me is the Spurs best offensive player this year. At least until Duncan starts getting it together. Ginobili has lost some of his game for sure. Efficiency and scoring are both important. The best style of play is having a player score in the flow of the offense and not do his own thing. Playing in the flow=high efficiency. Get a whole team that plays high efficient basketball and you got an offensive juggernaut like the suns.
