LA Lakers @ Golden State Warriors 11/01/2006

I'm surprised Ike played as much as he did tonight. His game wasn't stellar, but 8 points and 5 rebounds in 23 minutes is not so bad considering they didn't run a single offensive play for him that I saw. He was basically reduced to looking for scraps off the boards. The fact that he reverted to bad, late hacking fouls and fouled out is disturbing, but the good news is he has 0 turnovers in the 23 minutes.

If Ike can ever learn to not get tunnel-vision when he gets the ball, he should be getting a ton of assists with Monta, Baron, JRich, and Andris cutting to the basket. Especially Monta: no one can guard him and unlike Baron much of the time, he can actually finish at the rim consistently. Not suggesting Ellis is a better player than Baron (yet) or that Baron should sit, just saying Monta needs a lot more PT to hone his skills. He single-handedly got the team back into the game at the end, not easy to do when they had shown no signs of life all night.

Bottom line is that one thing was the same tonight as it was last year: when Dun and Murph are in the game, things tend to get slow and flat and unimaginitive. When Andris and Ellis and Ike are in the game, things tend to get exciting. Sometimes too chaotic, admittedly, but at least there's some life and it's the kind of basketball I want to watch. At least Nellie has done one thing right by benching Foyle, Dun should be next.

 

And that's why I defended Montgomery. He felt the same way a lot of times that Nelson felt tonight. I feel for coaches because I know our GM sucks and he puts together crappy players. I know it's only one game, but c'mon this is the same as the last two years. It's not going to be different by promoting Murphy to center. Might as well put in Foyle and still get the lack of inside presence, but better defense.

Mullin just saw too much of himself in Dunleavy... what a drag. Good college player, but not for us. He wasn't focussing on building a team that worked. He built a small ball roster and hired a rookie college coach whose game isn't small ball. Well, I bet Monty is busy counting his cool 10 mil and enjoying a good laugh at this post game interview with Coach Nelson. A coach in the nba is at the mercy of what the front office put together for him. There wasn't a strong team to begin with. And that's my opinion and argument for the last two years if anyone cares. If not cool. whatever. To each his/her own.

 

<div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I saw this on channel 4. Enjoy </div>Wow, that was awesome! Yes, honesty! One thing I did notice watching the game was that Nelson seemed curiously subdued. I didn't realize he was just trying to keep himself from barfing all over the court.

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I'm surprised Ike played as much as he did tonight. His game wasn't stellar, but 8 points and 5 rebounds in 23 minutes is not so bad considering they didn't run a single offensive play for him that I saw. He was basically reduced to looking for scraps off the boards. The fact that he reverted to bad, late hacking fouls and fouled out is disturbing, but the good news is he has 0 turnovers in the 23 minutes.

If Ike can ever learn to not get tunnel-vision when he gets the ball, he should be getting a ton of assists with Monta, Baron, JRich, and Andris cutting to the basket. Especially Monta: no one can guard him and unlike Baron much of the time, he can actually finish at the rim consistently. Not suggesting Ellis is a better player than Baron (yet) or that Baron should sit, just saying Monta needs a lot more PT to hone his skills. He single-handedly got the team back into the game at the end, not easy to do when they had shown no signs of life all night.

Bottom line is that one thing was the same tonight as it was last year: when Dun and Murph are in the game, things tend to get slow and flat and unimaginitive. When Andris and Ellis and Ike are in the game, things tend to get exciting. Sometimes too chaotic, admittedly, but at least there's some life and it's the kind of basketball I want to watch. At least Nellie has done one thing right by benching Foyle, Dun should be next.</div>

Agree agree agree. I think Ike wasn't that good tonight, but if he's with Andris at center, Ellis and Baron for the outside threat, I think he can be killer. He's good at moving without the ball and doing the little things we think Dunleavy does, but doesn't do affectively because he plays too small. Ike plays big IMO and he plays rough. That's what a big man should do. But they have to watch out because Biedrins and Ike need to stay on the floor to help our outside players.

Dunleavy and Foyle btw were constantly flipped in and out of the starting rotation last year. I wonder why? It's because they suck more times than they don't. The sad thing is we don't have much of a short term answer for that position right now. Between Barnes/Pietrus and Biedrins/POB you have a huge liability down there somewhere.

I feel bad for any coach who has to coach this sht. It's a raw deal. It's a crap deal. They should be making Foyle or Dunleavy money for dealing with that mental health hazard of a "team".

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, that was awesome! Yes, honesty! One thing I did notice watching the game was that Nelson seemed curiously subdued. I didn't realize he was just trying to keep himself from barfing all over the court.</div>

Now Monty would have never said that aloud, but he must have thought that.

Yet I bet Nelson will have to stick with something because he can't go Larry Brown on the Warriors with 82 different starting lineups with odd minutes going to different players. If Nelson gets fired and guys blame his ass, I will defend Nelson to the death. It's not Nelson's fault. I'm sure if Murphy and Dun weren't on the block, he would not play them to try and get their values up. That's my hunch. Get Murphy and Dun out the door so we can put some real big players in there or at least big players that can run like Amare or Webber or somebody. Plus, how about a decent small forward or tall shooting guard so we don't have to fool ourselves into believing Jrich is actually a true two guard when healthy. Plus, Baron... Don't care for him if he's going to be shooting jump shots worse than he does standing alone at the foul line. My goodness, an ocularly challenged, armless leper could get closer on some of those shots. Hell, I bet my dog can shoot free throws better than these Warriors and my dog has been dead for 13 years much like the Warriors hopes in the playoffs.

Okay time for bed. I'll feel angrier about it in the morning once I get more sleep and realize how bad this situation really is... being it's the first game and all, with two injured starters, and we have the same bad roster as last year with a coach who just now realizes what the f did I get into???

 

Well, that Lakers fan called it exactly. They dictated the tempo, their front line dominated us. I am not panicking because it IS the first game where our "starters" got to all play with eachother. Jrich is getting his legs under him. Murphy has got to be effected a little bit by the mask etc. Not making excuses, but I am not drinking the kool aid yet. But it does look like the same old Warriors. Lets see Nellies creativity...

 

Why did Baron only play 20 mins? He had 18 at the half and that is what he finished with. Was he injured? Nellie ripped Dunleavy. Sounds like Ike might start at the 4 next game...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree with you CR2, last night we did see a team that played very similarly to Monty's team but Nelson won't just let it continue like Monty did. Obviously the players aren't flawless in their game but I'm not crying over one game where we came out and looked like crap (first game of the season especially). I did see some things I liked tonight such as Baron getting in the paint and scoring at will when the team needed it, Pietrus playing smarter and hitting the boards, Monta, Ike, and Biedrins all played very well off the bench.

Murphy's not known for finishing on the inside but he can make almost all of those layups he missed when hes in mid-season form and JR clearly didn't have his legs under him and shouldn't have tried to score so much. Once they get back to their normal selves we'll be better off.

Dunleavy looked pretty bad last night and theres really no excuses for him. He just flat out cant hit open shots and isn't aggressive enough. He did have a tough matchup though against Odom and Walton who are both mobile and tweeners like himself but that doesn't excuse him from being a total non-factor.</div>


+1

First game...big deal. I'll evaluate the team after one month. I won't expect many missed point blank layups by Murphy the next game and I won't expect everyone to miss wide open three-pointers...first game jitters. It's a legitimate excuse and nothing to really cry home about.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Kensaku Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">First game...big deal. I'll evaluate the team after one month. I won't expect many missed point blank layups by Murphy the next game and I won't expect everyone to miss wide open three-pointers...first game jitters. It's a legitimate excuse and nothing to really cry home about.</div>I agree it's far too early to panic...however, since the Warriors play something like 13 of the first 16 games at home (or whatever it is), coming out flat is going to hurt them. They really need to take advantage of these home games to pad their record because it's going to get hard once they stary spending a lot of time on the road. Well, they have Portland tomorrow, that should be a good guage of where they truly are since Portland we know is terrible and the Warriors recently played them in the preseason.

The wrench in the machinery right now is JRich. I think he had a hand in disrupting the offense the Warriors had established in the preseason and he was clearly rusty. The other players did quite know what to do with him inserted. He made some poor decisions playing his own freelance game, and did not run Nelson's system. I worry a little about this because I think the other players respect him and I don't want to see him setting bad examples like that. Last year we saw how the bad 3-point shooting was contagious.

Also the freethrowing. WHAT THE HELL? The bad three-point shooting ok, you can do something about that by not taking so many because you, Warriors, suck at 3-point shooting. But the freethrowing you must, MUST improve on to have ANY chance at a playoff spot, and last night they looked even worse than last year, something I had thought impossible. Well Nellie said anyone who can't hit their freethrows will sit, let's see if he meant it.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I disagree with you CR2, last night we did see a team that played very similarly to Monty's team but Nelson won't just let it continue like Monty did. Obviously the players aren't flawless in their game but I'm not crying over one game where we came out and looked like crap (first game of the season especially). I did see some things I liked tonight such as Baron getting in the paint and scoring at will when the team needed it, Pietrus playing smarter and hitting the boards, Monta, Ike, and Biedrins all played very well off the bench.

Murphy's not known for finishing on the inside but he can make almost all of those layups he missed when hes in mid-season form and JR clearly didn't have his legs under him and shouldn't have tried to score so much. Once they get back to their normal selves we'll be better off.

Dunleavy looked pretty bad last night and theres really no excuses for him. He just flat out cant hit open shots and isn't aggressive enough. He did have a tough matchup though against Odom and Walton who are both mobile and tweeners like himself but that doesn't excuse him from being a total non-factor.</div>

How can you disagree with me when I said Nelson WILL figure out a way to correct the lineup? I think lately people are trying to find something to disagree about because we're pretty much talking about the same things. Also, I did acknowledge injuries, but we have a frontline that can't guard anyone or score much inside and that will kill the fastbreak game. Especially, if the other team gets wise and dares us to shoot or they foul us going inside.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Kensaku Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">+1

First game...big deal. I'll evaluate the team after one month. I won't expect many missed point blank layups by Murphy the next game and I won't expect everyone to miss wide open three-pointers...first game jitters. It's a legitimate excuse and nothing to really cry home about.</div>

In that case we've had first year jitters for an average of 48 games in each of the last 12 seasons

I know the team has to get better, but how much better so we can ship Murph and Dun out? I prefer dumping Dun and keeping Murphy. But I guess we'll have to wait and see about giving Dunleavy more chances to prove himself. I just don't think he's that kind of player most coaches think he is. We'll see. He's the #1 goat for now

 

<div class="quote_poster">HiRez Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
Also the freethrowing. WHAT THE HELL? The bad three-point shooting ok, you can do something about that by not taking so many because you, Warriors, suck at 3-point shooting. But the freethrowing you must, MUST improve on to have ANY chance at a playoff spot, and last night they looked even worse than last year, something I had thought impossible. Well Nellie said anyone who can't hit their freethrows will sit, let's see if he meant it.</div>

I don't know how we can get by with only three players on the court at one time, and the other 9 sitting.

I agree hirez about not panicking because we didn't improve much at all talent wise. So there's no surprise really. But I guess all this does is reaggravate all the pent up anger that fans like me have. It's kind of silly really, but what the heck I gotta vent

Besides, the happiest thing I saw last night was Foyle wearing a suit which means he ain't there to drop the ball over and over or blow wide open layups and dunks. Man, I love Nelson. I will understand though, if he wants to retire again by all-star break. I bet after the first game, Hawaii sounds really good about now...

 

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I watched the entire game last night and obviously there's a lot of kinks to be worked out with the Warriors. Mike Dunleavy at PF is the first problem Nellie needs to correct. He has no business playing in the paint and you can't expect him to slow down a player like Lamar Odom. I really think the best situation for Duns is to have him come off the bench and run the offense with two speed guards out there. Sort of like what the Suns do with Boris Diaw on the floor with Barbosa and Banks.
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Yeah, I don't think Dun at PF was such a good idea and I think a bunch of fans were either "let's wait and see" or "it would not work at all." I agree as well with two fast guards running the backcourt instead of Pietrus/Jrich at shooting guard. The two just don't have enough skill initiating the attack like good prototype shooting guards do in this league. I really think the best situation for Duns if he keeps putting up more inconsistency is to go to the NBDL or the WNBA. If only Mullin didn't have such a hard o--, I mean, attachment and longterm investment in him, we could find an actual small forward who can play small forward?

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
The free throw shooting was really atrocious for the Warriors. Watching Baron Davis give Ike a dirty eye for missing a technical and then later in the game Baron clanging a technical foul summed up the Warriors woes at the line.
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Big deal about Baron's free throw shooting. We've seen him shoot a jump shot. At least at the free throw line, it actually makes us believe he can hit the iron 9 times out of 10 instead of airballing it. That's funny Baron Davis was giving Ike the eye for missing foul shots. That's like Dunleavy getting mad at Peja Stojakavic for blowing a wide open jump shot.

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
The main problem for the Warriors is their spacing. Everyone was gravitating towards the ball instead of attacking the seems in the Lakers defense and waiting for the ball handler to find them. There was more than one occassion I saw 4 Warriors within arms distance of each other and it forced JRich or Baron Davis to take a low percentage shot up against the shot clock.
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Yup, the warriors didn't know what to do out there. They kept trying to do the same moves over and over which was to dribble in and kick out where the next guy was going to do the same. There was no cuts, give and gos, there was no guys setting hard picks or faking a post-up where they would set a pick under the basket. Our guys aren't big enough to do the kinds of things that draw attention to the paint. Even a crappy or mediocre big who at least knows about the game could do some of that stuff. Guys like Etan Thomas before he got promoted for instance. Nazr Mohammed is another. Kurt Thomas is another. I bet we could have gotten a firesale for these guys after Isiah Thomas cast them out. But instead we got the charmin ultra lineup and the only reason they are playing is because Mullin thinks they are players in his mold and he signed them to one ridiculous contract and the other a questionable contract.

<div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">

Anthony Roberson had no business being on the court after he badly missed his first two shots. I know he shot lights out in the preseason, but if he's not hitting, he becomes a two-way liability on the floor. Last night 16 minutes 0-6.

The team also seemed out of sync with JRich back in the lineup. He was pretty much a blackhole last night and forced a lot of shots against double teams.

The Warriors had a lot of bad breaks on offense. They blew so many wide open layups and 2 foot shots. Troy Murphy actually airballed a wide open finger roll attempt from 1 foot away. Baron had a layup rim out, and those bad rolls just lead to Laker baskets at the other end.

The two players who really impressed me were Biedrins and Monta. I never knew Biedrins could create his own shots and handle the ball as a face up scorer. I think the Warriors should consider featuring him a lot more on offense. He has a soft touch around the rim, long arms, and explosive leaper. With a little confidence I could see him being an Andrei Kirilenko type player. He already has the shotblocking down. The block he had on Bynum was nasty!

The other player I love is Monta Ellis, and everytime I watch him play I curse the Lakers for drafting Von Wafer (now cut) instead of Ellis. He plays with no fear on the court and makes things happen on both ends. Some of the little things he does on the court it's hard to believe he came straight out of highschool. His feel for the game and fundamentals are amazing for a kid his age. Eventually he's going to make either BDiddy or JRich expendable.

Eventhough the Warriors had a disappointing home loss, a lot of their issues are correctable. Nellie is one of the best at making adjustments and isn't afraid to tinker around with lineups to find the best chemistry on the court. I think Biedrins played well enough to earn more minutes, and if he gets them he needs to be consistent about his production.

Ike Diogu also had a solid game. He does have a tendancy to fall for head fakes and leaves himself caught in the air. He needs to learn how to use his wingpan more effectively and play position defense instead always going for the highlight shotblock. He's tenacious on the boards though, and knows his limits on offense.

The 1st half of the season will be a work in progress for this team. But I think the Warriors will start to peak in the 2nd half under Nellie. Watching them reminded me of the Lakers last season. You could see the potential the team had, but they just needed time together to figure it out. The players just need to be patient and trust Nellie's system.</div>

Good stuff shape. I agree about the players. Especially Jrich. I love Jrich to death, but we all know he's not a true shooting guard. That's why he is more of a Desmond Mason type player on steroids. He gives consistency, toughness, and scoring but he doesn't dribble very well, pass the ball better than the average shooting guard, and he's streaky on the outside shot. He doesn't however play the defense that Desmond Mason plays.

 

btw props to moo2k who called it.

 

Again, its not the players so much as the execution. Free throwing was horrible, they lost by 12 and missed 15.

Rebounding, where's the desire? Where's the hustle? I did not see it.

Key turnovers. Inexcusable. What's JRich doing trying to go behind his back? Monta, love his speed, but he's not a PG either.

Dunleavy was absent, but how many opportunities did he get? He went 3-7, not totally awful. 2 boards though which is weak.

When Turiaf goes for 23, that's just bad defense.

These are fixable. Have faith. Look at Don Nelson's record, if he can get Paul Mokeski to be a servicable center, he can make Biedris above-average.

I agree, we need more Ike.

 

I am tired of seeing Dunleavy starting for this team in general - be it pg, sg, sf, pf, center, anywhere. Look at the difference between Walton, Odom, and Dunleavy. All three of these players are tall, skilled, and decent all around players. It is not surprising that the weakest mentally, Dunleavy, is the worst of the three. Dunleavy didn't just get burned by Odom and Walton, but also Radmonovic, and frankly I didn't even notice him that much on the court at all. People were saying that he would play better since Musselman wasn't around anymore, then since he would do well with Montgomery, and now with Nelson; but overall it just doesn't look good for Dunleavy on the Warriors at all. And thinking about his contract extention just takes away any potential of trading him for anything decent or just to get rid of him all together.

Somebody needs to piss Dunleavy off or Dunleavy needs to move to the bench. The only times I remember him playing that great was when he was pissed off and played angry. It's only one game, but he is the captain, everyone was depending on him, and he was a no show. Same old Mike Dunleavy Jr.

 

Lmao at all the Warriors fans almost calling it a season after ONE GAME. Let's hope your team isn't as quick to quit on itself.

 

I don't think we're quitting on the team, we're just venting after a horrible loss. The mojo will come back when we start winning more.

I am quitting on this starting lineup. Awful. Dunleavy should not be starting until he proves himself. Jrich shouldn't play until he's got his rhythm back. Somebody needs to play tough up front. I'd rather go with Ike or Biedrins even though they foul a lot. I think a few of us had no faith in RUN Murphy n' Dun from the start. And last night was just fuel for the argument. And this is even though it's only been one game under Nelson, Dunleavy constantly does this crap. How much can the guy turn around? It's like getting hopes up and having to lower expectations each and every time with guys like Dunleavy or Kwame Brown or some other high drafted disappointment.