LA Lakers @ Golden State Warriors 11/01/2006

Discussion in 'Golden State Warriors' started by trg_tony, Nov 1, 2006.

  1. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    I'd keep an eye on the CMaggs situation in Los Angeles. He's not exactly Dunleavy Sr.'s favorite player, and with the money the team has invested in Brand, Kaman, and soon Livingston, you have to figure CMaggs is the odd man out.

    Dunleavy Sr, also has expressed the desire to coach his son, and he have leverage with Clipper ownership. I could see a third team get involved like Orlando or New Jersey (if Vince Carter leaves) with the Warriors getting back a draft pick or cheap, young talent and expiring contract.
     
  2. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    That game can be summed up in one word... Poop. It was poop. Poop on a platter. Makes me want to give the club level seats for Friday's game back to the person who gifted them to me for my 30th birthday. Oh well... I'm not going to get crazy, I think Nelly will make adjustments, thay can't be this bad all year long. I'll reseve my overall judgment until after seeing that poop live.


    Side note, if they stink it up this bad, I'm going to get an F-COHAN shirt silk screened and wear it to every other game that I go to.
     
  3. philsmith75

    philsmith75 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Dunleavy is the lightening point, he's paid big $$$ and he's passive. Okay. But he only played 27 mins., what happened the other 21 mins? He had 3 assists and one turnover. Dunleavy did not lose the game.

    3-19 on 3 pts; 15 missed FTs, that's what lost the game.

    Biedrins, Diogu and Ellis are the future. Let's start grooming them.

    As for CMaggs, forget it, he's a black hole who gets fouled. Warriors need grit, effort, desire. Not necessarily more talent.
     
  4. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">custodianrules2 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How can you disagree with me when I said Nelson WILL figure out a way to correct the lineup? I think lately people are trying to find something to disagree about because we're pretty much talking about the same things. Also, I did acknowledge injuries, but we have a frontline that can't guard anyone or score much inside and that will kill the fastbreak game. Especially, if the other team gets wise and dares us to shoot or they foul us going inside.</div>

    Lol, sorry, you made like 12 posts that I trying was responding to all at once. It seemed like your general point was that its the same team from last year, which it did look like, but things will change. The frontline looked awful and very rusty, the players were very ancy, J-Rich and Murphy were coming back from injury. I wouldn't expect them to come out like that the whole year. Once J-Rich gets his legs under him and starts making those shots and Murphy makes those layups we'll be much better.
     
  5. CohanHater

    CohanHater JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Dunleavy is the lightening point, he's paid big $$$ and he's passive. Okay. But he only played 27 mins., what happened the other 21 mins? He had 3 assists and one turnover. Dunleavy did not lose the game.

    3-19 on 3 pts; 15 missed FTs, that's what lost the game.

    Biedrins, Diogu and Ellis are the future. Let's start grooming them.

    As for CMaggs, forget it, he's a black hole who gets fouled. Warriors need grit, effort, desire. Not necessarily more talent.</div>

    He got into foul trouble early
     
  6. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dunleavy is the lightening point, he's paid big $$$ and he's passive. Okay. But he only played 27 mins., what happened the other 21 mins? He had 3 assists and one turnover. Dunleavy did not lose the game.

    3-19 on 3 pts; 15 missed FTs, that's what lost the game.

    Biedrins, Diogu and Ellis are the future. Let's start grooming them.

    As for CMaggs, forget it, he's a black hole who gets fouled. Warriors need grit, effort, desire. Not necessarily more talent.</div>

    Dun wasn't that bad but we were expecting him to have more impact while he just seemed non-existant. IMO he'll do well against teams with big lumbering PFs like Randolph, Boozer, JO, etc. but when hes going against Odom, Garnett, Al Harrington, etc. they have no problem keeping up with him and taking away his penetration. He needs to hit open shots and hes shown no signs of being able to do that.

    I'm not a huge fan of CMaggs but hes a guy who can run the floor, make FTs, finish, and defend decently. If trading for him helps the team then I'm all for it but I wouldn't give up much to get him.
     
  7. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Dunelavy went 2 for 7, 2 rebounds, 3 assists, one steal, and Nelson said Dunleavy's performance was a disaster, because he isn't scoring, defending or rebounding. And, if not performing in offense end isn't enough, Odom, Walton and Turiaf all shot way over 50%, and they are all guarded by Dunleavy. And, those 3 players are only ones who shot over 50% from Lakers.

    It's just one day, so I will probably give Dunleavy few more games. But, if this continues, really, what other choice do we have? We knew Dunleavy would be a defense liability, but we hoped that he would make up in offense end. Yesterday, he still pulled disappearing act in offense, and he couldn't even pretend to defend against back up PFs. Even Nelson said in today's radioshow that he is seriously thinking about putting Dunleavy to PG, because he just can't rebound. Actually, both Muss and Monty tried to make him PG and the result wasn't exactly pretty. So, I have a little hope that Nelson will suddenly make Dunleavy a decent PG...

    Nelson will probably try to do everything to make Dunleavy successful, because he has a unique talent. But, if Nelson can't, it really is the end of the line for Dunleavy...
     
  8. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dunleavy is the lightening point, he's paid big $$$ and he's passive. Okay. But he only played 27 mins., what happened the other 21 mins? He had 3 assists and one turnover. Dunleavy did not lose the game.

    3-19 on 3 pts; 15 missed FTs, that's what lost the game.

    Biedrins, Diogu and Ellis are the future. Let's start grooming them.

    As for CMaggs, forget it, he's a black hole who gets fouled. Warriors need grit, effort, desire. Not necessarily more talent.</div>

    Dunleavy may not lose the game, but he certainly didn't help to win the game either. And, the whole purpose of getting playing time is to help the team to win. So, he was as good as Foyle, who was in IL. Actually, Foyle didn't log a single minute, while Dunleavy wasted 27 mins. So, in a sense, Dunleavy was worse than Foyle yesterday...
     
  9. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Lol, sorry, you made like 12 posts that I trying was responding to all at once. It seemed like your general point was that its the same team from last year, which it did look like, but things will change. The frontline looked awful and very rusty, the players were very ancy, J-Rich and Murphy were coming back from injury. I wouldn't expect them to come out like that the whole year. Once J-Rich gets his legs under him and starts making those shots and Murphy makes those layups we'll be much better.</div>

    No problem. I agree with you, man. I meant to put a [​IMG] after I typed so that it wouldn't seem like I was angry or upset or anything. hehe
     
  10. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">philsmith75 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dunleavy is the lightening point, he's paid big $$$ and he's passive. Okay. But he only played 27 mins., what happened the other 21 mins? He had 3 assists and one turnover. Dunleavy did not lose the game.

    3-19 on 3 pts; 15 missed FTs, that's what lost the game.

    Biedrins, Diogu and Ellis are the future. Let's start grooming them.
    </div>

    I agree that our current starters can't shoot worth a lick and it's been this way for the longest time. Now if we had some form of defensive play, maybe the streaky shooting wouldn't be a problem if we could balance out our production on both ends of the floor. But we haven't even got defense... I want to cry. [​IMG]

    Hopefully Nelson and Mullin realize that Dunleavy is probably not a power forward either. If we're a running team we need to chuck those slow footed guys off our team, get rid of the guys that can't shoot free throws, and ... oh crap that's our whole team! [​IMG]
     
  11. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">Kwan1031 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Dunleavy may not lose the game, but he certainly didn't help to win the game either. And, the whole purpose of getting playing time is to help the team to win. So, he was as good as Foyle, who was in IL. Actually, Foyle didn't log a single minute, while Dunleavy wasted 27 mins. So, in a sense, Dunleavy was worse than Foyle yesterday...</div>

    I agree with this. It's only one game, but a Captain and a starter should set the tone. Even if he's as bad as fisher at least give something like set shooting or free throws or something. A starter is supposed to be consistent and he's never been that consistent. I don't care if Dunleavy blasts Montgomery's system or Nelson's system, he's just not an nba starter because he can't guard SF and he can't guard PF's and he takes no advantage of his size because he's too weak and soft. Compared to other 6'10 SF type guys, they run circles around Dun. It's just really sad that Dunleavy can't even shoot to make up for it. I think too many excuses have been made for Dunleavy all these years and the full time Dunleavy haters made the guys who only disliked Dunleavy, feel guilty if they said something bad about him. Yeah, he's got some intangibles, but I wouldn't say they were the gritty kind like Najera or Cardinal or Kukoc or marko Jaric.
     
  12. boogiescott

    boogiescott JBB JustBBall Member

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    CR i just think it is pure comedy because you continue to bash Mullin, continue to call him incompetent. Say really ridiculous things. I assert that Mullin knows more about basketball than you do, not really a bold statement.

    I think Mullin has done well with what he has been given in the draft mostly 10-11 picks.

    I would love to have a Duncan on this team too. But he didnt fall into our laps like he did in San Antonio. LRbron didnt either.

    Sometimes you have to make due the best you can with what you have.

    WE all know he blundered on Foyle, and i didnt like the Dunleavy signing but i still think that can be worked out too this season, either by his value being raised in nellie's system them being traded or he simply fits in.

    But Mullin hasnt made any bad trades. He hasnt given any of our future talent away. Most, if not all of his trades have benefited us thus far or at the very least balanced out like the fisher trade or the najera trade.

    You say he cant put the players together. He inherited a poorly put together team. His first steps out of the box he stepped in crap with the foyle, fisher signings. GRanted he has been working to correct his first mistakes, but this is only his 3 year.

    It might be a conservative approach stockpiling young talent and waiting on the right deal. But it is better than most deals i have heard that seemed to have some legitimacy. I dont think we would be that much better if we traded ike/murph for artest or had acquired harrington for murph. Big men just dont fall from the sky and are a premium for most teams. Who has been available? Rumours of j oneal were brief. MAgliore, yeah we could have rented him for a year, but didnt mil get expiring contracts for him?

    i dont get where you say he built it? he drafted biedrins, POB and ike all bigs.... taft as well.... so he drafted ellis as the only small guy. He traded davis and claxton for baron. so a wash in size with davis expiring contract, he was a goner. He traded fisher for expring contracts and players of similar ability.
    He traded for Cabarkapa... another bigger player.

    I just dont see how you say he constructed a team for small ball when he inherited murph, jason, dunleavy, ( can't remember was pietrus his first pick after taking over?)etc....

    The team was in place when he came in and i think what he has done has slowly improved us. We are the second youngest team in the league and it takes time to develope. He has trimmed the old guys taking up court time from the young guys.

    Not once did this starting five play together in the preseason. J -rich missed it entirely, baron, MP and murph missed games to injury. Dun i think is the only one who played in every game. I think we will shake the rust off of not playing together, and reverting to our old monty style of losing wont happen next game. The free throws are a mystery to me given what has been reported in trainging camp, but i guess chalk that up to first game gitters and expect a 70% or better number vs portland

    Muphy has limited offensive ability? this is the statements i am referring too. No Muphy has a lot of offensive ability. He is capable of taking forwards off the dribble and can shoot well stretching the offense. Just because he looked pathetic one night around the basket he now has limited offensive ability. So he is like what? dennis rodman? he had limited offensive ability but still got 10 boards? is he foyle? he has limited offensive ability. comedy, makes me laugh.
     
  13. Clif25

    Clif25 JBB JustBBall Member

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    What happened this game, I think is an example of what Don Nelson said not too long ago. Good teams don't need to play uptempo. But the Warriors will mainly succeed this year playing uptempo. If you can play uptempo it means that you are outworking and outhustling the other team. Everybody knows this is how the Warriors are going to succeed this year. The big problem last night was that the Lakers were extremely disciplined and prepared to get back on defense and their transition defense was terrific. The other problem was execution which kind of got a set back from the preseason as Jason and Troy have not received sufficient experience getting acquainted with the system to know it or how to use it, and also those two were not 100% physically. It was kind of frusterating watching these players not work harder to move quickly up the court more. I know that many times it didn't seem like there were opportunities, but sometimes things clear up, but they will only clear up if you are actually there after sprinting up the court, rather than just walk, upset that the opponent is already back on defense, so you are going to take a little breather and let the opponent out-work you. That is why I liked Pietrus, Andris, and Ike last night. They seemed to be the only ones hustling on the floor in white last night.

    I do not believe that this team is as bad as they played last night. Even with how bad they played, they were still making a run getting it to 9 points near the end to make some noise. That is the thing with this team; they seem to not play so great, but even in the preseason against the Hornets they just have a way to stick around and in the game. Of course this could also be a result of the Lakers not hitting FT's and also being a little bit cold too. Tomorrow night should be another good measurement of what this team is all about. Nelson has said that the first twenty games are very important. If they are doing well after twenty games this team can have a shot at the playoffs. But that has to start with a win vs. the Blazers. The Warriors cannot start the season 0-2 like that. Well I guess they could, but it wouldn't look pretty.

    As for Dunleavy, my last Dunleavy comment, hopefully for a while: It wasn't as if Dunleavy "lost" the game. But basketball is not about "not losing" it's about winning. I know for a lot of things in our lives "not losing" is a common philosophy for "success" but I think it is different for basketball. If you are a starter, especially, you need to be out there to win and be contributing to a victory. Even if you are off the bench, it is the same way, though not as severe possibly, just that you wouldn't get a whole lot of time away from sitting on the bench, if you weren't contributing to the success.
     
  14. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    Lakers is a darn good team even without Kobe, and in retro respect, it shouldn't be a surprise that we lost to them. And, last night, the worst scenario for this club happened. Yeah. In order for this team to survive, we need to run. Because, we simply don't have a half court game. But, in order to run, we have to force TO, secure defense board or defend. Problem is that we are not a good defense team, and even when we forced Lakers to miss, we couldn't clean up defense rebounds, giving up 19 rebounds to Lakers. Also, Dunleavy simply couldn't pretend to guard PFs, and last night, Lakers exploit our weakness. So, that also caused the game to slow down. It's just one game, but Lakers really exploit our weakness, and that's why I have a hard time thinking that it's just one game. But, hopefully this team can show better game tomorrow against supposely doormat Blazers...
     
  15. Gohn

    Gohn JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting boogielew:</div><div class="quote_post">You say he cant put the players together. He inherited a poorly put together team. His first steps out of the box he stepped in crap with the foyle, fisher signings. GRanted he has been working to correct his first mistakes, but this is only his 3 year. </div>
    True in one sense, but then you have to wonder why he resigned Murphy, Richardson, and Dunleavy to huge contracts. The reason from what I've read is that Mullin thought the team was capable of the playoffs. Basically in the last year that Musselman coached the team, Mullin thought the team was underachieving under Musselman, hence firing Musselman, hiring Monty, signing Fisher and Foyle. So in a way he did build this team because he choose to keep those players.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting boogielew
    :</div><div class="quote_post">It might be a conservative approach stockpiling young talent and waiting on the right deal. But it is better than most deals i have heard that seemed to have some legitimacy. I dont think we would be that much better if we traded ike/murph for artest or had acquired harrington for murph. Big men just dont fall from the sky and are a premium for most teams. Who has been available? Rumours of j oneal were brief. MAgliore, yeah we could have rented him for a year, but didnt mil get expiring contracts for him</div>
    I agree here, but how is he going to keep all the young talent if the team is over the cap with his overpriced signings?

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The team was in place when he came in and i think what he has done has slowly improved us. We are the second youngest team in the league and it takes time to develope. He has trimmed the old guys taking up court time from the young guys. </div>
    Of course the team was in place when he took over, but he had the option of not signing certain players to large contracts.

    He has improved us but first he made us worse in the short term and most importantly the long term.

    I'd rather have someone like Cliff Robinson on the team than Murphy or Dunleavy. Cheaper contract better defender. Knows how to play the game. Can help our young bigs like Biedrins and Ike. Or how Rahim, which is all in hindsight but would be way better than Murphy and again cheaper.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quoting boogielew:</div><div class="quote_post">Not once did this starting five play together in the preseason. J -rich missed it entirely, baron, MP and murph missed games to injury. Dun i think is the only one who played in every game. I think we will shake the rust off of not playing together, and reverting to our old monty style of losing wont happen next game. The free throws are a mystery to me given what has been reported in trainging camp, but i guess chalk that up to first game gitters and expect a 70% or better number vs portland</div>
    I agree. It was only one game, though it kind of worries me how bad Dunleavy was on D, and that Baron apparently didn't follow the game plan.

    Portland will be tough though. I wouldn't underestimate them.
     
  16. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">CR i just think it is pure comedy because you continue to bash Mullin, continue to call him incompetent. Say really ridiculous things. I assert that Mullin knows more about basketball than you do, not really a bold statement.

    I think Mullin has done well with what he has been given in the draft mostly 10-11 picks.

    I would love to have a Duncan on this team too. But he didnt fall into our laps like he did in San Antonio. LRbron didnt either.

    Sometimes you have to make due the best you can with what you have.

    WE all know he blundered on Foyle, and i didnt like the Dunleavy signing but i still think that can be worked out too this season, either by his value being raised in nellie's system them being traded or he simply fits in.

    But Mullin hasnt made any bad trades. He hasnt given any of our future talent away. Most, if not all of his trades have benefited us thus far or at the very least balanced out like the fisher trade or the najera trade.

    You say he cant put the players together. He inherited a poorly put together team. His first steps out of the box he stepped in crap with the foyle, fisher signings. GRanted he has been working to correct his first mistakes, but this is only his 3 year.

    It might be a conservative approach stockpiling young talent and waiting on the right deal. But it is better than most deals i have heard that seemed to have some legitimacy. I dont think we would be that much better if we traded ike/murph for artest or had acquired harrington for murph. Big men just dont fall from the sky and are a premium for most teams. Who has been available? Rumours of j oneal were brief. MAgliore, yeah we could have rented him for a year, but didnt mil get expiring contracts for him?

    i dont get where you say he built it? he drafted biedrins, POB and ike all bigs.... taft as well.... so he drafted ellis as the only small guy. He traded davis and claxton for baron. so a wash in size with davis expiring contract, he was a goner. He traded fisher for expring contracts and players of similar ability.
    He traded for Cabarkapa... another bigger player.

    I just dont see how you say he constructed a team for small ball when he inherited murph, jason, dunleavy, ( can't remember was pietrus his first pick after taking over?)etc....

    The team was in place when he came in and i think what he has done has slowly improved us. We are the second youngest team in the league and it takes time to develope. He has trimmed the old guys taking up court time from the young guys.

    Not once did this starting five play together in the preseason. J -rich missed it entirely, baron, MP and murph missed games to injury. Dun i think is the only one who played in every game. I think we will shake the rust off of not playing together, and reverting to our old monty style of losing wont happen next game. The free throws are a mystery to me given what has been reported in trainging camp, but i guess chalk that up to first game gitters and expect a 70% or better number vs portland

    Muphy has limited offensive ability? this is the statements i am referring too. No Muphy has a lot of offensive ability. He is capable of taking forwards off the dribble and can shoot well stretching the offense. Just because he looked pathetic one night around the basket he now has limited offensive ability. So he is like what? dennis rodman? he had limited offensive ability but still got 10 boards? is he foyle? he has limited offensive ability. comedy, makes me laugh.</div>

    Dude, you make me laugh. You go on a bunch of other discussions, type a bunch of posts, you constantly bait me with condescending remarks and it seems like your sole purpose is to bait me. And the worst of it, is you don't even come back to respond later in the same thread where the arguments started. You argue and then leave. Well f that that's obnoxious crap and it's not helping anyone involved. What about the Marion thread, smart guy? What about the others who have been saying Mullin has made the roster what it is now and has criticized his GM skills because of his biases and experiences as an ex player? What about the others who have agreed with me that Mullin is not a good GM? Why target only me? You have nothing better to do? Do you have some kind of grudge? Frankly, I don't even think you are worth my time. You don't add anything to the forum because you attack other posters rather than attacking the argument. You don't explain your reasoning. All you do is bullsht, challenge my credibility, I explain,and then you disappear after saying "oh it's comedy, pure comedy". If it's pure comedy to you, leave. Drop the ego, stop with the baiting and disrespecting and talk about the ideas and not the poster. Are you Mullin's wife or something? Jesus.

    And yes Mullin knows more about basketball than I do because he's a former NBA player. I said that over and over that we fans don't do this job for a living so we don't always know. But like any American voter, we can still be free to criticize the job our president and politicians are doing based on what we observe, perceive and based on fact. Going back to Mullin, a competent GM wouldn't have blown his money arguing Foyle was market price. He also would have waited on Dunleavy to prove himself. He also should have researched his players before he got coach Montgomery and realized it was a bad fit going both ways. So much for conservative, huh? Isiah Thomas can draft as well, but that doesn't make him a good GM, especially after Layden.

    I have said the GM position is a hard one to play out, but Mullin is still pretty incompetent for spending wrecklessly on guys with lackluster results, hiring the wrong coach for the players he ended up having, and then putting himself into a corner because he spent all the money that the Warriors could afford to spend. What was his experience? What was Mullin's main experience? Working as St. Jean's assistant on a losing franchise or having been an all-star player on a small ball team? Where do we think he even gets the ideas to assemble the players that we had? If he's just collecting talent, why the f did he spend so much? Huh? Why did Mullin construct such a team and spend on a such a poor choice of center and starting point guard in one year? Because he just doesn't know and he's a career small baller that's never worked for a successful franchise to gain experience and he's never played much outside of what Nelson taught him. Mullin either doesn't know what a center is or he thought Cohan was a rich man. And if Mullin thought solely about the draft where we took a lot of centers and big men, he wouldn't have overspent on so many bad players so that we could have a chance to re-sign guys like Diogu, Biedrins, POB and whatnot.

    When Mullin said the Warriors were a playoff team in '03, '04, and then '05. That tells me he is incompetent when it comes to evaluating team chemistry, team foundation, and individual players. Mullin really lucked out on the BDiddy trade because New Orleans just gave him to us. Outside of that he's done jack. Worse than St. jean. At least the other knucklehead GMs and presidents managed to take their franchise to the playoffs at least once in 12 years.
     
  17. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    When Mullin inherited this team:

    0 long term salary committment
    Extra draft picks
    Richardson
    Dunleavy
    Murphy
    Dampier
    Foyle
    Speedy
    Pietrus
    C. Robinson
    10 mils bodybag named NVE
    Muss
    A club that won 38 and 37 games.

    Actually, you can substitute Dunleavy and NVE for Jamison, because it was Mullin who made that deal.

    Mullin's achievements
    ` Traded Jamison for NVE and opened up starting SF job to Dunelavy. Jamison won 6th man of the year, All-Star and US team, while Dunleavy never fulfilled his potential, if any.
    ` Signed Fisher to be our starting PG, which never materialized.
    ` Fired Muss and brought Monty.
    ` Chose to resign Foyle over Dampier, when Dampier would have cost 1.5 more mils per year. Now, Foyle is sitting on IL, and he will collect roughly 27 mils for next 3 years.
    ` Gave Richardson and Murphy early extension. We might have saved couple mils on Richardson. But, we could have gone other way with Murphy. Next year, Abdul-Rahim was knocking our door to play for MLE.
    ` Drafted Biedrins. Mullin can draft.
    ` Received Zarko for two 2nd rounders. Saint liked Pietrus and Mullin liked Zarko. So, after he became a VP, he got the player he wanted. Only problem is that Zarko can't defend or rebound.
    ` Traded C. Robinson for trading exception and didn't do anything with the exception.
    ` Traded Speedy and D. Davis for B. Davis. In a nutshell, it was a steal. However, it was a final nail for us to lose financial stability.
    ` Drafted Diogu. Jury is still out, but so far, decent pick.
    ` Gave Dunleavy early extension... Need no word.
    ` Wiped Fisher's contract.
    ` Drafted POB


    Can you give me one good reason why this team actually regressed to 34 wins? And, how that is actual improvement? Mullin did not lose any player via unfortunate reason. Every single player we have is assembled by Mullin. We had no reason to regress, but that's what happened. And, that blame falls to the designer, Mullin.

    In addition, we do not have any financial flexibility to add salaries. Caproom became a long distant dream, and we can't even use MLE because of luxury tax. Heck, we can't even add two minimum contracts, and it's most likely that we will waive either Barnes or Roberson unless we dump some salaries.

    But if you think this is bad, the real problem comes later.

    We have 5 long term contracts. None of 5 contracts will end in next 3 years, and they will take 48.9 mils for this year, 53.6 mils next year and 58.3 mils two years from now. This year's luxury tax line is 63.2 mils. The problem is that we have to resign Pietrus, Zarko, Monta, and Biedrins in 2 years, and if Cohan refuses to pay luxury tax, we simply don't have any room to resign any of those rookies. So, can any of those 5 contracts be dumped? We may be able to dump Davis and Richardson, but that means we are rebuilding. And, even if we replace Davis for Monta, that's more than likely a regression, and at best staying at the same level. Nobody will take Foyle or Dunleavy like what Utha did to Fisher. And, after this offseason, I really don't think Warriors can really dump Murphy easily either. In other word, there is a chance that we may have to face trading/letting our young talents go for nothing. And, even if we somehow keep those guys via trade, that doesn't necessary mean that we will improve.

    Mullin had every resources, abundant young talents, and extra picks. However, he actually managed to regress the franchise. Saint's ultimate problem was that he couldn't assemble the winning club. I don't think Mullin gave any indication that he can do better than Saint...
     
  18. Custodianrules2

    Custodianrules2 Cohan + Rowell = Suck

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    <div class="quote_poster">boogielew Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
    Muphy has limited offensive ability? this is the statements i am referring too. No Muphy has a lot of offensive ability. He is capable of taking forwards off the dribble and can shoot well stretching the offense. Just because he looked pathetic one night around the basket he now has limited offensive ability. So he is like what? dennis rodman? he had limited offensive ability but still got 10 boards? is he foyle? he has limited offensive ability. comedy, makes me laugh.</div>

    Dude, why are you even like this? You've got to be the most annoying guy whose ever posted to me. And why can't you disagree without attacking me, baiting me with condescending remarks? You used to be cool and then suddenly you went psycho. What the hell did I ever do to you? I mean you're not related to Mullin are you? You don't work for Cohan, right?

    And BTW Murphy is limited offensively. Can he score inside like a power forward or center? Can he take guys off the dribble reliably going either way and then finishing? How about his footspeed for open court play? Why is he only a sub 40% shooter then? He is by my definition, limited offensively or else he'd still be a power forward. I'm not judging anything by one game, but the past few years. I mean, why even make Dun the power forward unless Murphy also had a passing game as well. It's not quite a triple threat if he doesn't pass when he has the ball. I'd rather keep Murphy than Dun, but as far as I'm concerned they should be demoted in favor of somebody who can body up, post up, and defend the rim while being able to pass, handle some. Ike and Biedrins IMO are those future guys and if they are aready, find a trade for those two softies who are starting now if it can be done.

    Anyway enough waste of time. You don't teach me anything or explain anything to me, but you demonstrate how disrespectful/immature you can be as a community member and Warrior fan. You don't have any patience with me to explain things nicely, so I won't display any patience towards you if I think you're posting nonsense. The next time you post in a such a way where it is not a helpful and productive conversation towards our difference in opinion, I'll delete the posts or I'll get an unbiased moderator weigh in. Simple as that. But, I'm pretty sure the guidelines favor my side.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
    http://www.justbball.com/forums/faq.php?fa...#faq_harrasment

    Harassment


    Personal attacks, insults & attempts to publicly humiliate another member are strictly prohibited. Members may not post any messages that are discriminating, obscene, hateful, threatening otherwise violative of any laws.We demand that all members treat other members with respect. To help prevent any confusion as to what is harrasment and what is not, we kindly ask you to please keep sarcasm to a minimum.</div>I've argued with several people before where we compromised, excercised patience, restrained emotion, showed each other respect and never before have I heard from such an immature person like you. That's not an attack, it's the truth. I kind of liked it when you went into hiding, actually. If you want to continue to post, I don't have a problem. Just follow the guidelines.
     
  19. Run BJM

    Run BJM Heavy lies the crown. Staff Member Global Moderator

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    <div class="quote_poster">Kwan1031 Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">
    Can you give me one good reason why this team actually regressed to 34 wins? And, how that is actual improvement? Mullin did not lose any player via unfortunate reason. Every single player we have is assembled by Mullin. We had no reason to regress, but that's what happened. And, that blame falls to the designer, Mullin.</div>

    How is it Mullin's fault that the team regressed? He kept the same players and even improved the team through trades and the draft. He assembles the team but its not his job to get the team ready to play each game and get them to execute. The coaching and players are responsible for regressing, Mullin may have screwed the cap situation but the talent level is as high as its been in many years.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In addition, we do not have any financial flexibility to add salaries. Caproom became a long distant dream, and we can't even use MLE because of luxury tax. Heck, we can't even add two minimum contracts, and it's most likely that we will waive either Barnes or Roberson unless we dump some salaries.

    But if you think this is bad, the real problem comes later.

    We have 5 long term contracts. None of 5 contracts will end in next 3 years, and they will take 48.9 mils for this year, 53.6 mils next year and 58.3 mils two years from now. This year's luxury tax line is 63.2 mils. The problem is that we have to resign Pietrus, Zarko, Monta, and Biedrins in 2 years, and if Cohan refuses to pay luxury tax, we simply don't have any room to resign any of those rookies. So, can any of those 5 contracts be dumped? We may be able to dump Davis and Richardson, but that means we are rebuilding. And, even if we replace Davis for Monta, that's more than likely a regression, and at best staying at the same level. Nobody will take Foyle or Dunleavy like what Utha did to Fisher. And, after this offseason, I really don't think Warriors can really dump Murphy easily either. In other word, there is a chance that we may have to face trading/letting our young talents go for nothing. And, even if we somehow keep those guys via trade, that doesn't necessary mean that we will improve.</div>
    The cap situation is a mess but the Murphy signing gets way too much scrutiny. 10 mil a year for a double double guy is not a bad deal, its not "market value" but its very rare that a player is signed to "market value" in the NBA. As much as Murphy gets hated on hes our only big capable of staying in a game and not getting his ass kicked on the defensive glass.

    Dunleavy and Foyle signings were terrible at the time and still are to this day, Fisher was bad but wasn't THAT overpaid considering he did average 12.6 ppg and 4.2 apg and there aren't man MLE players putting up over 10 ppg.

    There is a chance that we may have to let some of our young talent walk but Foyle is movable at the all-star break before Biedrins and Monta are FAs (or that offseason) and if Murphy at C is successful (which I think it will be) then Murphy will be more movable. Cohan, for all the hate he gets, has been willing to spend the cash when necessary so I think he would agree to eat the lux tax temporarily if necessary. Nelson will also have a good amount of influence in the GM decisions which is definitely helpful.

    <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Mullin had every resources, abundant young talents, and extra picks. However, he actually managed to regress the franchise. Saint's ultimate problem was that he couldn't assemble the winning club. I don't think Mullin gave any indication that he can do better than Saint...</div>
    Mullin didn't totally blow all the resources, we still have alot of picks and much more talent than before. The cap situation is pretty bad, no doubt, but lets at least see if the team hes got out there now with Nellie can be a winner before totally giving up on him.

    I hate to be one of the only people making excuses for Mullin but you can't blame Mullin that the players aren't performing, thats on the players and coaches. He screwed the cap situation but the team is very talented and he hasn't made any bad trades or draft picks so far. Go ahead and blame him for the future cap situation of the team but you can't blame him for the current state of the team, Nelson and the players are going to have to figure it out for this season.
     
  20. Kwan1031

    Kwan1031 JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">Run BJM Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">How is it Mullin's fault that the team regressed? He kept the same players and even improved the team through trades and the draft. He assembles the team but its not his job to get the team ready to play each game and get them to execute. The coaching and players are responsible for regressing, Mullin may have screwed the cap situation but the talent level is as high as its been in many years.


    The cap situation is a mess but the Murphy signing gets way too much scrutiny. 10 mil a year for a double double guy is not a bad deal, its not "market value" but its very rare that a player is signed to "market value" in the NBA. As much as Murphy gets hated on hes our only big capable of staying in a game and not getting his ass kicked on the defensive glass.

    Dunleavy and Foyle signings were terrible at the time and still are to this day, Fisher was bad but wasn't THAT overpaid considering he did average 12.6 ppg and 4.2 apg and there aren't man MLE players putting up over 10 ppg.

    There is a chance that we may have to let some of our young talent walk but Foyle is movable at the all-star break before Biedrins and Monta are FAs (or that offseason) and if Murphy at C is successful (which I think it will be) then Murphy will be more movable. Cohan, for all the hate he gets, has been willing to spend the cash when necessary so I think he would agree to eat the lux tax temporarily if necessary. Nelson will also have a good amount of influence in the GM decisions which is definitely helpful.


    Mullin didn't totally blow all the resources, we still have alot of picks and much more talent than before. The cap situation is pretty bad, no doubt, but lets at least see if the team hes got out there now with Nellie can be a winner before totally giving up on him.

    I hate to be one of the only people making excuses for Mullin but you can't blame Mullin that the players aren't performing, thats on the players and coaches. He screwed the cap situation but the team is very talented and he hasn't made any bad trades or draft picks so far. Go ahead and blame him for the future cap situation of the team but you can't blame him for the current state of the team, Nelson and the players are going to have to figure it out for this season.</div>

    Mullin also fired Muss and hired Monty. That's one reason why this team has regressed. Really, we say this team won 34 games in last two games. But, if we deduct meaningless wins, this team was actually worse than 34 games winning club. Also, Mullin chose to sign Foyle instead of Dampier. And, now we are looking for a center, who can do basically what Dampier did for Warriors. That's another reason why this team can't defend the middle, bring help defense or secure rebounds. Then, Mullin chose to put his faith on Dunleavy instead of Jamison. Granted that Jamison may be overpaid, and he may not be your typical superstar. But, Jamison would have been much nicer than Dunleavy now and probably for next few more years. Certainly, Mullin stockpiled talents. But, those talents are really unbalanced, and we are not winning at this point. There really wasn't any reason for us to step back when Mullin took over. But that's what we did. The main reason why we took steps back in last two years are because of Mullin's decisions.

    Yeah, I agree that most of players never get signed with market value. And, I really don't have too much problem with players being overpaid. After all, if you are a bad team, you are bounded to overpay. However, I have a lot of problem with Mullin signing those players at 3rd year, when signing them in 4th year make no difference. Exactly, what's the reason to lock up those players in their 3rd year, when you are not getting a bargain deal, and they haven't proved themselves that they will be franchise players or potential? Richardson? Yeah, I can understand because he showed enough potential, and it turned out to be a good deal. However, Murphy at 10 mils in 3rd year? We are not getting a bargain deal, nor he didn't show enough potential to warrent 10 mils per year. So, why not wait a year and evaluate one more year? If we have waited one more year, a lot of other options would have opened for Murphy. And, Dunleavy... There is no excuse...

    Before this offseason starts, I had a hope that we can at least dump Murphy's contract with relatively ease. But, after this offseason, other teams just don't want Murphy's contract. Really, we tried number of ways to trade him, but we couldn't find any taker. Even Atlanta chose to go with Wright for 2 years than Murphy with 5 years contract. That's why I am just not confident with dumping Murphy. I can see the possibility that we can dump Foyle in next offseason. However, it will take mroe than a draft pick. And, even if we somehow dump Foyle, that doesn't solve our salary situation that much.

    Will Cohan actually pay luxury tax? I do think he knows what kind of situation he is in when he approved all those signings. However, he didn't show any desire to pay luxury tax this season. So, I will believe when he actually pays the tax...
     

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