<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Dec 23 2007, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No its not that bro, its his age catching up. Why didn't Stockton remain in the league? I'm sure he could have been a starter somewhere as well but you get to a point where the beating you get in games is too much to take. I'm pretty sure Kidd is near that point and its around a year or two. (at most 3)</div> Here, I'll let John answer this one. Question – What are some of the factors? Can you go over some of the factors? John – There are a lot of them, as I mentioned before. There is always family, how you are playing, how the team is doing. There are so many things that fit into it and I don’t think that you can accurately describe which one has the most impact. All in all I think it is clear that this is the time for me. And if you're comparing Kidds ability to take the beating, he has repeatly said he wants to play till 40 plus so that has to tell you something about how his body feels right now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Dec 23 2007, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bynumite @ Dec 23 2007, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Dec 23 2007, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Dec 23 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys are expecting way too much for Kidd. He's the mr. triple double, but he's old as well and you never know if he has a year or two left until he becomes just an average player.</div> People have been saying that for the past 3 years. If anything, his play has only increased in each of those three years. </div> Agree every year people do say that, but theres going to be a year when the people who say that are going to be right and Kidd is just going to be an average player. </div> Yes, but with the way things have been going, it's ridiculous to speculate when that year will be. His play hasn't shown any signs of slowing down. For people to say "he might be an average player 2 years from now" is silly because they have nothing to base it on. If he had been showing signs of slowing down, I'd agree with them, but so far, he's shown no indications of any sort of decline. </div> The general idea from what I've heard on the wfan and occassionally espn that unless the Nets are championship contenders than they want to focus on Brooklyn and due to postponement Jason Kidd would not be a factor. This could all be a moot point...if we have a solid January and get back to .500 then probably nothing happens and we focus for the playoffs...as the old saying goes once you get to the postseason your record is 0-0.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 23 2007, 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 23 2007, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>So, based on your thinking, Boston shouldn't have traded for Garnett, because of the players traded to Minny, there was a combined 44 points averaged. Meanwhile Garnett averages 22. Boston shouldn't do that because they're giving up 22 points, no way they could make that up. In retrospect, I guess that was a pretty ridiculous trade, and Minny got away with murder.</div> Different scenario. Boston had already gotten Ray Allen at this point addin a 20 plus career scorer with Pierce. Knowing you'd be adding Garnett to that duo (who's games all compliment eachother) is different than adding Kidd to just Kobe. Boston gave away alot of Talent to establish a big three and hope a rookie pg would do. They got lucky though. They wouldnt be where they are as a team if it wasn't for the savvy additions of House and Posey. But your point is valid. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 23 2007, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Kidd elevates the play of his teammates, and obviously other players would step up in the absence of the players being traded to the Lakers. I don't know how you're thinking on that one.</div> Yeah he does but he's not a magician...just like Kobe wouldn't accept a trade to Chicago if they were robbed Kidd will not be able to help the team if they have no one...if he could turn any player into a producer Antione Wright would be an all star. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 23 2007, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Okay, we raped the Raptors. Marbury's a joke of a player, who just isn't a winner. Meanwhile Kidd's a Hall of Fame point guard, who's good enough to lead his team to the playoffs. That's not raping the Suns? Oh, yeah, and not to mention we traded away an injured Kittles away and got rid of his contract, while he went over to the Clippers...and retired.</div> I don't think you can call it a rape unless you can proclaim it first day such as the Carter deal...every Gm makes a deal and later goes damn I wish I had that back. I'm still pissed about Keith Van Horn for Mutumbo. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 23 2007, 06:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182)</div><div class='quotemain'>Any trade with lakers would have to include Bynum and Farmar, and that wouldn't happen.</div> I'm still not sure where you're getting the thought that I think we'd be getting Bynum. </div> Ok. I'm actually sorry about that one...I saw it like two minutes after I posted but was to busy watching the Jets game and forgot to edit it. My bad. </div> Boston gave up Wally and Deltone to get Ray, and Wally was averaging 15 and Delonte 12, while Ray was averaging 26. The Suns gave away Q Rich and JJ a couple years ago, and added Bell, Banks, and Diaw. Those three wouldn't be expected to pick up the scoring slack, yet they stepped up and did. And then Amare was out, so the team had to pick up the scoring load even more. It happens, teams lose players who score alot of points, but other players step up in place. I'm just saying, I'm sure the Lakers could find other players to step up. That arguement seems like it's going nowhere. Mikki Moore, Aaron Williams, Richard Jefferson, and Kenyon Martin are a few guys who would disagree with you about Kidd being a "magician". It's not Kidd's fault Antoine has missed open shot after open shot (not to mention open layups). Kidd sees him open, gets him the ball, he just has to knock down the shot. Seems there are enough guys on LA capable of scoring, though. And it's alright on the Bynum thing, we'll throw that arguement out the window.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 23 2007, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Boston gave up Wally and Deltone to get Ray, and Wally was averaging 15 and Delonte 12, while Ray was averaging 26. The Suns gave away Q Rich and JJ a couple years ago, and added Bell, Banks, and Diaw. Those three wouldn't be expected to pick up the scoring slack, yet they stepped up and did. And then Amare was out, so the team had to pick up the scoring load even more. It happens, teams lose players who score alot of points, but other players step up in place.</div> Yeah but there is something to be said about player consiladation...meaning that the Celtics pretty much gave up 7 players and only had to make up 20 points in scoring they had lost. By then adding 5 more players with only say and average of 6 pts a game in career scoring each to the roster than they actually effectively increased there scoring by 10 points a game...also the mix of superstars is actually the best I've seen with Garnett being a selfless post player, Allen a Reggie like long bomber and pierce a slash to the basket man with a midrange J. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 23 2007, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm just saying, I'm sure the Lakers could find other players to step up. That arguement seems like it's going nowhere. Mikki Moore, Aaron Williams, Richard Jefferson, and Kenyon Martin are a few guys who would disagree with you about Kidd being a "magician". It's not Kidd's fault Antoine has missed open shot after open shot (not to mention open layups). Kidd sees him open, gets him the ball, he just has to knock down the shot. Seems there are enough guys on LA capable of scoring, though.</div> Mikki Moore he definately made better, Aaron Williams as welll...I do think Kenyon would be an all star every year if he could stay healthy and RJ also deserves credit for his own star. I do get your point though. I'm sorry I flipped on you in my post. Like I said I do value your knowledge of the game but I guess I let some ridiculous posts in this thread about Bynum and your 1 comment get to me and I decided to let the fingers flow with some hate. My bad. Ok that being said this is what I really would like to see for Kidd from the Lakers Jordan Farmar Vladimir Radmonivic Ronny Turiaf Trevor Ariza Kwame Brown and a first rounder. I would gladly send them Malik Allen if they wanted though
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vuchato @ Dec 23 2007, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Then trade Carter for AK47 Kirilenko/Williams/Camby frontcourt, hell yeah, try and shoot on the inside now! and RJ at the 2.</div> Why would Utah trade AK for VC? Nets' offense would also be very anemic with those 3 in the frontcourt.
Hey, why should we trade Kidd right now? We are in winning mode, and Frank just started changing the frontcourt, now Josh Boone and Sean Williams are starting, and we are winning, We just beat Warriors, and Warriors beat Cavs later. Sean and Josh would only get better, and Marcus Williams just come back, we still have Nenad there. I'd approve trading Kidd if Collins and Allen were still the starters, but hey, the thing is just turning around, don't do the stupid thing, if you have to trade one of the big three, you have to trade the other one of them, that's really hard !!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Dec 23 2007, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>No its not that bro, its his age catching up. Why didn't Stockton remain in the league? I'm sure he could have been a starter somewhere as well but you get to a point where the beating you get in games is too much to take. I'm pretty sure Kidd is near that point and its around a year or two. (at most 3)</div> You are just ridiculous, how could you say he is going to be declining when he is in a season that getting triple double very efficienctly? Are you crazy?
I would like to add to this whole thing that I think if Frank sticks with Josh and Sean and then Has Collins and Nenad come off the bench and if we can get Boki healthy than we will be fine and no trades will happen...if have a losing record in the month of january then and only then do we trade Kidd.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J_Ray @ Dec 23 2007, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vuchato @ Dec 23 2007, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Then trade Carter for AK47 Kirilenko/Williams/Camby frontcourt, hell yeah, try and shoot on the inside now! and RJ at the 2.</div> Why would Utah trade AK for VC? Nets' offense would also be very anemic with those 3 in the frontcourt. </div> yeah, that wasn't entirely serious. and the VC for AK pipe dream is one I've had since the off-season, than combining him with Camby and Sean, and that would by pretty awesome.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Dec 23 2007, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Dec 23 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys are expecting way too much for Kidd. He's the mr. triple double, but he's old as well and you never know if he has a year or two left until he becomes just an average player.</div> People have been saying that for the past 3 years. If anything, his play has only increased in each of those three years. </div> 3 years ago Jason Kidd was 31. People were saying Jason Kidd only had a year left being above average when he was 31? Anyway, everybody ages. Kidd doesn't have forever in this league. We would probably say 5 years tops.
Laker fan here. I come in peace. lol Jason Kidd is probably one of the best point guards to ever play the game, and he is still the best point guard in the league, at least in my opinion (better than Steve Nash because he plays in a run and gun offense). Now, as a Laker fan, would I want Jason Kidd on the roster? Hell yes I would. But I'm not willing to break the bank for him. As it currently stands, point guard isn't a problem for us. Jason Kidd would be a luxury to have, not a need. This isn't last year, where we had Smush Parker starting for us, and a rookie Jordan Farmar, followed by Aaron McKie (who was done), and Shammond Williams (who?). Derek Fisher has been solid this season. Nothing great, but solid. Farmar played well early on in the season, but his play seems to have taken a dip ever since the trade rumors started (which is probably expected). The point guard position isn't a position of need for the Lakers, at least not in my opinion. Our point guard unit isn't great, but it's solid. With that being said, if there is a way to improve the unit, I'd definetely do it. But not if we're going to trade away all our valued prospects And to set the record straight, Andrew Bynum is not going anywhere. To the Laker's front office, they would rather trade Kobe Bryant than Bynum. Is that retarded? Probably, but the front office has made Bynum practically untouchable at this point. He is probably the most valued player on our roster right now
Exactly Brian. They wouldn't have hired Kareem to develop him if they hadn't thought he is special. But I really think both Bynum and Kobe are untouchable.
I don't see why the Lakers don't just trade Odom, Odom, Vlad Rad, Turiaf, Jordan Farmar for JKidd and Malik Allen. If Lakers are completely against trading LO, which they will be, then: Turiaf, Vlad Rad, Kwame Brown, 2 picks, Jordan Farmar for JKidd Note: The Lakers cannot trade Ariza with a combination of other players, league rules.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakerman34 @ Dec 24 2007, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't see why the Lakers don't just trade Odom, Odom, Vlad Rad, Turiaf, Jordan Farmar for JKidd and Malik Allen. If Lakers are completely against trading LO, which they will be, then: Turiaf, Vlad Rad, Kwame Brown, 2 picks, Jordan Farmar for JKidd Note: The Lakers cannot trade Ariza with a combination of other players, league rules.</div> Probably because the Nets don't want LO and his contract? They probably don't want to take on Radmanovic's contract as well. I feel the only way we're going to get Kidd is if we somehow get a three team deal in place, otherwise, it's not going to happen. The chances Kidd even gets traded is slim to none. Personally, I believe Kidd will remain a Net when it's all said and done. This reminds me of the Kobe Bryant situation over the summer. A lot of buzz, but in the end, nothing will happen
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bynumite @ Dec 23 2007, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 23 2007, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> yeah, so Kidd for Farmar and Luke. do you realize how retarded that is for the Nets?</div> So what </div> LOL post of the day for sure. I don't even see us trading Kidd to be honest, and surely not for the bottom 5 guys on the Lakers' rotation. Get the f**k outta here if you think you're getting a HOF for Team DNP-CD.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 24 2007, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bynumite @ Dec 23 2007, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Dec 23 2007, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> yeah, so Kidd for Farmar and Luke. do you realize how retarded that is for the Nets?</div> So what </div> LOL post of the day for sure. I don't even see us trading Kidd to be honest, and surely not for the bottom 5 guys on the Lakers' rotation. Get the f*ck outta here if you think you're getting a HOF for Team DNP-CD. </div> Bad mod
Kidd isn't requesting a trade and we aren't getting any good offers. No need to pull the trigger on anything. By giving away Kidd; we're doing our partner a favor, not us.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lakerman34 @ Dec 24 2007, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Note: The Lakers cannot trade Ariza with a combination of other players, league rules.</div> I was under the impression the only restriction on him was that he could not be traded until January 20... Also I don't think you guys trade Odom and Vlad...I thinks its more like one or the other.
Yeah, I think you are right, January 20th they can trade Ariza. Honestly, I doubt J-Kidd goes anywhere. If the Nets want to make a deal, they are gonna trade VC or a package of the two Williams for a star player (Gasol?) Lakers are better of trying to trade for Ronny Artest in SacTown. I would love to see if the Nets could trade VC to Atlanta for Josh Smith. I think he's a better player in NJ's system.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Dec 23 2007, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JCB @ Dec 23 2007, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Dec 23 2007, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You guys are expecting way too much for Kidd. He's the mr. triple double, but he's old as well and you never know if he has a year or two left until he becomes just an average player.</div> People have been saying that for the past 3 years. If anything, his play has only increased in each of those three years. </div> 3 years ago Jason Kidd was 31. People were saying Jason Kidd only had a year left being above average when he was 31? Anyway, everybody ages. Kidd doesn't have forever in this league. We would probably say 5 years tops. </div> Three seasons ago, yes, people were saying Kidd would start slowing down "any day now."
