[quote name='SunnyD' post='185470' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:10 PM']Indiana has Jamaal Tinsley, and when healthy, is a solid defender and three point shooter.[/quote]Tinsley is okay at best, he makes a lot of turnovers and tries to do too much a lot of the time. Plus his health is a factor.[quote name='SunnyD' post='185470' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:10 PM']Stephen Jackson-ShooterJames White-DunkerMarquis Daniels-Shooter/SlasherDanny Granger-Defender[/quote] Stephen Jackson would get 15 points, Lamar would be on him most of the time, and if he even looked like he was starting to heat up Kobe or Mo Evans would be in there with a hand in his face every play. He's good, but not that good. James White is a rookie who was taken in the second round. He's not very good, and he can't dunk in traffic so that means nothing. With Marquis Daniels it's the same situation as Jackson, but he's not as good. And Granger's a good defender, but unless he's going up against Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest it's not going to affect Kobe at all.[quote name='SunnyD' post='185470' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:10 PM']I seriously think that Granger could defend Kobe and keep him under 25, which is below average. [/quote] In a 7 game series? I doubt it.[quote name='SunnyD' post='185470' date='Oct 28 2006, 08:10 PM']The Pacer Big Men are really why I think the Pacers are better. Jermaine O'neal is so versitale on offense, he has great power and a great shot. Al Harrington is terrific at getting garbage points, and is familiar with the Pacers. Jeff Foster is a rebound vacuum. Compared to LA Lakers Big Men, they don't have a big stopper. Kwame is there, but he is unproven and <u>still</u> raw, as is Bynum. Mihm is ok, but he isn't defensively great. Radmonovic can shoot threes....[/quote]Kwame is unproven as an overall player, but not as a defender. Having watched him for 89 games I know he's an elite post defender. I've seen him hold his own against Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett, he would be able to slow down Jermaine O'neal. Chris Mihm was a top 10 center in the league before he got hurt, he was wildly underrated, he could make a team pay for taking him as nothing. His only problem is his health. I'd say the Pacers have the upper hand down low, but not by much. The Lakers have a big advantage on the wing, and in the point guard spot it's about even.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dsounG @ Oct 28 2006, 11:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I laugh at this debate (pacers fan forever).</div>Laugh all you want, but relize you're laughing at the truth<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 28 2006, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The ABA was worse than the NBA, you can say it wasn't as much as you want. But it was.</div>obviously this argument is getting us nowhere because neither of us will change our minds, so forget it<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 28 2006, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Tinsley is okay at best, he makes a lot of turnovers and tries to do too much a lot of the time. Plus his health is a factor. Stephen Jackson would get 15 points, Lamar would be on him most of the time, and if he even looked like he was starting to heat up Kobe or Mo Evans would be in there with a hand in his face every play. He's good, but not that good. James White is a rookie who was taken in the second round. He's not very good, and he can't dunk in traffic so that means nothing. With Marquis Daniels it's the same situation as Jackson, but he's not as good. And Granger's a good defender, but unless he's going up against Bruce Bowen or Ron Artest it's not going to affect Kobe at all. In a 7 game series? I doubt it.Kwame is unproven as an overall player, but not as a defender. Having watched him for 89 games I know he's an elite post defender. I've seen him hold his own against Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett, he would be able to slow down Jermaine O'neal. Chris Mihm was a top 10 center in the league before he got hurt, he was wildly underrated, he could make a team pay for taking him as nothing. His only problem is his health. I'd say the Pacers have the upper hand down low, but not by much. The Lakers have a big advantage on the wing, and in the point guard spot it's about even.</div>you are right about your tinsley comment but I'm not sure smush is any bettereverything else you wrote is wrong, we have more balance and depth and our frontcourt is better
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 28 2006, 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you are right about your tinsley comment but I'm not sure smush is any bettereverything else you wrote is wrong, we have more balance and depth and our frontcourt is better</div>Smush isn't much better, he's probably not even better at all. They're about even from what I've heard about Tinsley, they're about even. Care to illustrate how what I said is wrong?
I'm only going to say a couple things. Lakaboy, after your done with this. Your going to realize how much time you wasted in this topic. Second, I'm reading some of the comments and pacer fan, quit acting like your comments are facts. Their called opinions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Oct 28 2006, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm only going to say a couple things. Lakaboy, after your done with this. Your going to realize how much time you wasted in this topic. Second, I'm reading some of the comments and pacer fan, quit acting like your comments are facts. Their called opinions.</div>I've already realized that. The only time I've posted in this was when I was extremely bored, my plans fell through tonight so I had some free time to have this arguement again.
you also said kwame brown is and elite post defender.dude, what the heckI said it earlier and I'm going to say it again - jermaine would have a post-up party against kwamekwame is a reaction defender - not a smart defenderall jermaine has to do is you that nasty turn around fake of his, send kwame in the air, and get fouled and go to the line for a possible 3 point play
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 28 2006, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you said odom would guard jackson, he wouldn't Power Forward vs Shooting GuardDoes that make sense?</div>Odom's a SF, he's 6-10. Jackson's 6-8, him guarding Jackson makes sense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 29 2006, 12:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Odom's a SF, he's 6-10. Jackson's 6-8, him guarding Jackson makes sense.</div>odom is a small forward? he's not, but if that's what you think, fine. that still doesn't change the fact that jackson is a shooting guard.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you said odom would guard jackson, he wouldn't Power Forward vs Shooting GuardDoes that make sense?</div> In that case, yes. Lamar Odom is basically a forward who can play the 3 and 4. He's not strictly a 4, as with Jackson he can play the 2 or 3. So if you wanted to, it could be a 3 vs. 3(I don't do those assesments). Size wise, I don't see an issue where Odom couldn't guard Jackson. Odom can guard on the perimeter, he's not the kind of big that shies away from the 3pt line defensively.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>that still doesn't change the fact that jackson is a shooting guard.</div>Stephen Jackson is not relegated to playing the shooting position solely. Are you under the impression every player is relegated to one spot? Almost every player in this league can play multiple positions, start realizing that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 28 2006, 09:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you also said kwame brown is and elite post defender.dude, what the heckI said it earlier and I'm going to say it again - jermaine would have a post-up party against kwamekwame is a reaction defender - not a smart defenderall jermaine has to do is you that nasty turn around fake of his, send kwame in the air, and get fouled and go to the line for a possible 3 point play</div>How many times have you seen Kwame Brown play? I'll admit I haven't seen a lot of Jermaine O'neal, but I seriously doubt he's better than some of the guys Kwame's locked down. Kwame would make him work for ever dribble.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Oct 29 2006, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In that case, yes. Lamar Odom is basically a forward who can play the 3 and 4. He's not strictly a 4, as with Jackson he can play the 2 or 3. So if you wanted to, it could be a 3 vs. 3(I don't do those assesments). Size wise, I don't see an issue where Odom couldn't guard Jackson. Odom can guard on the perimeter, he's not the kind of big that shies away from the 3pt line defensively.Stephen Jackson is not relegated to playing the shooting position solely. Are you under the impression every player is relegated to one spot? Almost every player in this league can play multiple positions, start realizing that.</div>I relize that. but stephen jackson has horrible stats when playing forward. look it up before you say anything. for the pacers to win, granger would be the sf and jackson the sg.
Dude Lakaboy just stop wasting your time with this. Even though BBW has some of the smartest posters here this guy is just gonna keep thinking we are ll wrong and he's he only right one.Pacersfan all you've used is opinions, stats(which mean nothing, and a few facts. Your arguement sucks. All you can say against Kobe is he is a ball hog, but then you also say how there team is full of nobodys. What do you expect Kobe to do then when the game is on the line? The point is Kobe is the best scorer in the NBA and he can score on anybody whenever he wants. Why would you not take advantage of that?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lakaboy42 @ Oct 29 2006, 12:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How many times have you seen Kwame Brown play? I'll admit I haven't seen a lot of Jermaine O'neal, but I seriously doubt he's better than some of the guys Kwame's locked down. Kwame would make him work for ever dribble.</div>I know one thing about kwame that makes everything I said true - he has no basketball IQ - at all.Jermaine meanwhile, is probably the best low post scorers in the league, spin moces, fakes, hooks, 20 footers - he has it all.o'neal would just completely outsmart kwame, every possession, all game, guarenteed.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iversonfan268 @ Oct 29 2006, 12:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dude Lakaboy just stop wasting your time with this. Even though BBW has some of the smartest posters here this guy is just gonna keep thinking we are ll wrong and he's he only right one.Pacersfan all you've used is opinions, stats(which mean nothing, and a few facts. Your arguement sucks. All you can say against Kobe is he is a ball hog, but then you also say how there team is full of nobodys. What do you expect Kobe to do then when the game is on the line? The point is Kobe is the best scorer in the NBA and he can score on anybody whenever he wants. Why would you not take advantage of that?</div>ok, so say what you've said is true. kobe scores 80. the rest of his team scores twenty. guess what? the pacers only need 101 points, something they are very capable of now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I relize that. but stephen jackson has horrible stats when playing forward. look it up before you say anything.</div> I could care less how he plays there. The point is the matchup makes sense as he does play the 3 as well. As for looking those kinds of stats up. Their impossible for the fact no one clocks a player's time at a certain position. Especially in today's game where players are always switching in and out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Oct 29 2006, 12:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I could care less how he plays there. The point is the matchup makes sense as he does play the 3 as well. As for looking those kinds of stats up. Their impossible for the fact no one clocks a player's time at a certain position. Especially in today's game where players are always switching in and out.</div>you don't know squat. they do keep those statistics, but since you're so lazy and won't look it up, you have no right to argue at all.in a big game, jackson would not play forward, especially with our new star - danny granger.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 28 2006, 09:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I know one thing about kwame that makes everything I said true - he has no basketball IQ - at all.Jermaine meanwhile, is probably the best low post scorers in the league, spin moces, fakes, hooks, 20 footers - he has it all.</div>Kevin Garnett>Jermaine O'neal Shaquille O'neal>Jermaine O'neal Tim Duncan>Jermaine O'neal. Kwame stopped all of these guys, they're all better than JO too. Kwame's low IQ didn't seem to hurt him when playing those players, why would it hurt him against a far inferior player?<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Oct 28 2006, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>you don't know squat. they do keep those statistics, but since you're so lazy and won't look it up, you have no right to argue at all.in a big game, jackson would not play forward, especially with our new star - danny granger.</div>It doesn't matter what position he'd be clocked at or whatever. Odom could guard him, there's only a 2 inch difference in size.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>you don't know squat. they do keep those statistics, but since you're so lazy and won't look it up, you have no right to argue at all.</div> Ok then, show me stats that show his minutes at the shooting guard position. Then his minutes at the small forward position as well. It's not being lazy, because there's nothing to look up. His total minutes are not his minutes for shooting guard. So don't bother showing me his average minutes per game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rok @ Oct 29 2006, 12:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok then, show me stats that show his minutes at the shooting guard position. Then his minutes at the small forward position as well. It's not being lazy, because there's nothing to look up. His total minutes are not his minutes for shooting guard. So don't bother showing me his average minutes per game.</div>since you're trying to start worthless arguments, you find the stats. I don't even know why you're starting this argument without something to back it up.
