Politics Liberals and economics

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by magnifier661, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  2. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    No way should Trump bite the bait and get into this. I hope everyone that wants to vote for him does so. End of story.
    Besides, this KKK thing is illogical and seems like something contrived to serve some agenda.
     
  3. Sedatedfork

    Sedatedfork Rip City Rhapsody

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    So, why didn't he disavow him during the interview? It took him a while to come up with a reason.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He didn't know who David Duke is.

    It looks like he googled him and figured out he's KKK. Of course he disavowed him.

    And of course he can't control who the KKK or anyone else announces they support him. He can't realistically be expected to know about the vast majority who do make such announcements. Like Mags, for example.
     
  5. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Why bait him with a stupid question? Just for giggles?
     
  6. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Actually, it was a fair question.

    Trump's message certainly has a big nationalism component to it.

    That's why I can't stand the guy. I'm into individualism, not nationalism or authoritarianism.
     
  7. Sedatedfork

    Sedatedfork Rip City Rhapsody

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    Hard to believe he didn't know who David Duke was. He certainly doesn't claim that. Actually he claims that his earpiece was faulty. This was the reason he came up with 24 hours later when interviewed this am.

    Edit: Especially since he repeats the name David Duke like 5 times in answering the question
     
  8. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I heard him say he didn't know anything about Duke. That was in the press conference.
     
  9. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    From your own link, btw:

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ays-he-knows-nothing-about-white-supremacists

    "I don't know anything about David Duke. I don't know what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacist. I don't know. I don't know, did he endorse me, or what's going on?" he said. That prompted a back-and-forth that went, in part:

    Trump: I don't know what group you're talking about. You wouldn't want me to condemn a group that I know nothing about. ... If you would send me a list of the groups, I will do research on them and certainly I would disavow them if I thought there was something wrong.

    Tapper: The Ku Klux Klan?

    Trump: You may have groups in there that are totally fine and it would be very unfair. So give me a list of the groups and I'll let you know.

    Tapper: I'm just talking about David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan here.

    Trump: Honestly, I don't know David Duke.
     
  11. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Naw it is a stupid gotcha question. What he should have said was, I hope he votes for me too. But with the PC shit of today you are suppose to "disavow" those not on the approved list.
    Nothing to do with nationalism, individualism, both of which are fine with me at this point. We do have common ground though, down with authoritarianism, but I don't think the questioner
    had this motivating her question. She just wanted to ask the gotcha question to see if the ogre could get the PC answer out quickly enough to please her followers.
     
  12. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    He brings these kinds of questions upon himself due to his nationalistic statements. Those are ones that appeal to Nazis and KKK.

    Specific examples: deporting all the illegals, ban on muslims entering the country.

    Nazis and the KKK hate anyone not white.
     
  13. Sedatedfork

    Sedatedfork Rip City Rhapsody

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    Sure, in the interview he claimed not to know David Duke. He, apparently not knowing who he was, disavowed his approval on Friday (two days earlier). Then on Sunday he's not sure. Then he's sure again with his tweet. Then on Monday he claims he had a faulty earpiece.

    http://www.today.com/news/donald-trump-kkk-non-answer-very-bad-earpiece-made-it-t76661

    Edit: I guess my point is that he is not doing a very good job of disavowing KKK and other support from racists. Can he control who supports him? No, not really (of course if he didn't support policies or used rhetoric that appealed to them he might lose some of their support). But, his failure to disavow their support very forcefully is kind of revealing, isn't it.
     
  14. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Read your own link. He absolutely asked for a list of groups Tapper was talking about and said he didn't know who David Duke is. Duke was prominent in the news in 1992, about 25 years ago. If he wasn't into politics or current events back then, he'd never have heard of him. If he did hear of him, 25 years of silence about the guy makes him forgettable.

    And what exactly is your beef? Trump disavowed him. That's the bottom line.
     
  15. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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  16. SlyPokerDog

    SlyPokerDog Woof! Staff Member Administrator

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    Who doesn't know who David Duke is?

    Besides Denny and Drumpf, I guess.
     
  17. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Yes Denny, I know where we differ. However, right here is where Trump is gaining his support and rightly so.
    Deporting illegals is the damn law, just because it has not been enforced is not a reason to not enforce the law. Change it or enforce it, not ignore it.

    He did call for a temporary ban on Muslims. Nearly 70% of the people agree with him including me. "They" have declared war on us! And I do use the term "They" correctly,
    since jihad is an Islamic term, call for by Islamic clerics or learned people of Islam. They are of Islam and that is the way it is, the people of Islam need to correct this, we can
    not correct it nor ignore it. So Trump is correct in calling for the ban until we can figure out how to protect ourselves. It is the prudent course of action, perhaps not PC but wise course of action.
     
  18. Sedatedfork

    Sedatedfork Rip City Rhapsody

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    Like I said. He disavows on Friday when asked about it (apparently not knowing who he is). Then doesn't disavow when asked about it on Sunday in a nationally televised interview, repeating the name many times in his answer. Then quickly tweets he disavows when he realizes his political error. Then 24 hours later claims his earpiece was faulty and that is why he didn't disavow in the interview. He basically admits he knew who David Duke is. It sounds like bullshit to me. He heard the question. He repeated the name several times. He knew who he was. And after a bit of a media storm he comes up with an excuse for not publicly disavowing when asked on a nationally televised interview. It is damage control. And I think that it is revealing that he is trying to pander to racists. Whether he is actually racist or not (I don't know him so I can't say, but his rhetoric and policies paint a picture), he is trying to win the vote of racists.
     
  19. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...racist-poll-yougov-economist-column/80944446/

    Think Trump's troopers are racist? Don't be so smug: David Mastio

    Goofy poll cited by 'New York Times' reveals 29% of African-Americans aren't sure Emancipation Proclamation was a good idea. 40% of Hispanics agree.

    Everyone who already thought that Donald Trump and his growing crowd of unwashed supporters were a bunch of racists now has confirmation from The New York Times: Nearly 20% of Trump backers nationwide disapprove of President Abe Lincoln’s Civil War executive order freeing the slaves in treasonous southern states.

    What a fine end to Black History Month 2016. Confederate values are still with us even though all the Confederates are long and thankfully gone.

    But breaking down the results of a poll of 2,000 people’s views into little bits based on a few hundred answers is dangerous business. Those who are hunting for proof of Trumpian perfidy will find exactly what they are looking for, but if you take the time to look a little more broadly, the rest of America doesn’t have an awful lot to be smug about.

    In the same Economist /YouGov poll:
    • 15% of American Hispanics agree with those racist Trump supporters: The Emancipation Proclamation was a bad idea. A quarter of Hispanics are not sure.
    • 32% of American blacks back President Franklin Roosevelt’s decision to round up Japanese-Americans and put them in camps during World War II. According to The New York Times analysis of the poll results, that is almost exactly the same percentage as among Trump voters.
    • More than 30% of those UNDER 30 are not sure that President Harry Truman’s 1948 executive order desegregating the U.S. military was a good idea. 15% are sure it wasn’t. (Incidentally, those who were around back then, the 65 and up crowd, are significantly more likely to applaud Truman’s desegregation order than kids today.)
    • 43% of likely Democratic primary voters, a very liberal slice of America, approve of President George W. Bush’s pro-torture executive order after 9/11.
    So, are America’s Hispanics nearly as racist as Trump supporters? Do a third of African-Americans have it in for their Asian countrymen? Are kids raised in the 1980s and later more resistant to desegregation than Americans born when Jim Crow was a thing? Do liberals love waterboarding?

    Uh, no.

    Here’s something that might put things in perspective: If you dig deep into the confusing Economist/YouGov online poll, you find that only 71% of American blacks approve of the Emancipation Proclamation. Five percent definitely disapprove of Lincoln’s action and 24% just aren’t sure.

    Maybe that 29% of African Americans is waiting to see how the whole experiment with a slavery-free America turns out. After all, it has only been a century and a half. Still early days.

    Or maybe, just maybe, when you dig down into the tiny details of a poorly-designed online poll, the “facts” you find tell you exactly bupkus. That can be enough if you are trying to prove a partisan political point, less so if you are trying to understand Donald Trump's followers.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Winning the vote of racists by disavowing them?

    If you say so.
     

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