It seems to me that the post above ("is healthcare going to be where the immigration battle is fought?") is on the money. Giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, or giving them the option to buy the government-plan insurance (I understand the difference) doesn't do anything about the problem. Of course saying "you don't want people to die, do you? Support this bill!" is going to appeal to emotion. Yes, nice people support people not dying in the street. However, "Illegal" is not just a fancy adjective applied for no reason. The people who that appellation applies to are in our country illegally and are criminals according to US law. Now, I'm all for figuring out a way to speed up the legal immigration process, or work visa process, or whatever. But I'm against protection and amnesty supporting criminal behavior. EDIT: For instance, we could compromise and say it's ok to be here illegally right now, if you and your employer go through a modified work visa process. If you don't, you get deported after you've received your health care/had the firemen put out the fire at your apartment/gotten pulled over for your speeding ticket. Why can't we have a real debate about immigration reform in parallel with the healthcare stuff? Is that too tough for Congress to do?
Are you actually implying that most illegals wouldn't fall below the poverty line, and thus wouldn't qualify for subsidizing? Really? Seriously?
I think companies that willingly hire illegals should be heavily fined. Furthermore, if we really need the additional labor, then we need to set up a program where we process large numbers of unskilled workers, give them biometric IDs and then have the company be responsible for deporting them when their visa is up.
I wasn't referring to this article, but to another one that reported the results of the latest poll on healthcare reform. I'll try to track it down.
I have been suggesting this for a little while too. This makes the most sense, to me. Brainstorming here, but what about fining the country of Mexico for illegals? Maybe Mexico would assist a lot more on the boarder? Would that damage the relationship too much?
You realize right that Illegals pay Social Security taxes into whomever's SSN# they have illegallly been using. Plus they purchase food here, plus they subsidize your food with their illegally low wages etc. etc. To call them moochers isn't quite accurate. They probably have propped up more of this country then most folks realize. Lord knows most rich white californians would REALLY have to shell out the big $ if they wanted their houses cleaned by legal help. Funny how all the criticism is on the illegals themselves and not their employers who TRULY reap the benefits. My opinion is you should fine the bejeesus out of any organization/individual that uses illegal labor. If we were serious about stopping illegal immigration we would do this, of course our food bills would sky rocket but that's what we want right? Right now the illegals get sent back and the employer if they are even fined at all get a modest slap on the wrist and usually don't have to pay for the now deported labor so they profit. I wonder why so many coporations/farms/individuals hire illegals for work...oh right profit. That said Illegals SHOULD BE DEPORTED when found. Unfortunately, thanks to NAFTA there is no solution to the immigration problem as there will be a never ending flood of illegals into this country because NAFTA absolutely wiped out rural family run farms with subsidized US corn. It's alot more complicated then most folks on this board want to deal with. If this was not EXTREMELY PROFITABLE for a number of corporations - such as Hormell meat packers and most of our agriculture - then there wouldn't be an illegal immigration problem, period. I'd love to hear someone on the right explain why we shouldn't fine the businesses that hire illegal help to a degree where it was not worth it say $40k per illegal found working for you.
Why should their be a guest worker program at all? We don't want illegal immigrants then don't bring in bargain basement labor. I mean isn't the issue that illegals are stealing jobs/services from god fearing honest Americans? I fail to see how this helps that angle. We need to fine Corporations/Farms/Individuals that hire illegals and it needs to be a MASSIVE UNAVOIDABLE FINE. If you don't support that then you are just like Obama you want exceptions for your political reasons, in this case you want cheap labor for corporations (really cheap produce), just not granting the right of citizenship. Stick with your guns folks. Either you want them here working on the cheap, or you don't want them here. Guest worker is some serious BS that undercuts american citizens job opportunities and allows corporations to get insanely cheap labor that skews the entire labor market and forces wages down.
My opinion is that we should require those enrolling in a public plan or seeking subsidies to purchase private insurance to have their citizenship verified. With that said, can illegals falsify social security numbers and find ways around this law? Of course they can. Everything has loopholes. All I'm saying is that we perhaps stick with the current setup about illegals in health care along with some stronger rules on them concerning purchasing health insurance paid via taxes. Oh, and boohoo if Californians have to pay for legal work. Hiring illegals should come with bigger risks to the employer if they know the workers are not working legally.
I think people like Plaxico Burress and Michael Vick should have healthcare too. Just becase they did something illegal doesn't mean we should discount them as people.
See, I think this is an area that both liberals and conservatives can agree. If you want to end illegal immigration, take away the job opportunities. Personally, I'd prefer a more graduated system. For example, you might hire a nanny and not even think to check for legal status. Should you have to eat a $40k fine? Probably not. But you should have to eat, say, a $500 fine the first time. Any employer repeatedly caught should see drastically increasing fines. Maybe on the third strike you go to $40k. The net effect would be the same (illegal immigrants would leave) but it'd be less draconian. The second step is that we'd need to re-think our legal immigration process. We're too reliant on cheep labor to just cut off the pipeline of new immigrants entirely. Right now it's completely un-sellable to suggest opening up the spigot of legal immigrants. But if we were able to get illegal immigration under control, I think a lot of people could come to a consensus on opening up our borders more to legal immigrants.
I'm in full agreement with this, but unfortunately many liberals are not. They think that closing job opportunities to poor people from south of the border is cruel and inhuman, and that America should be a place that welcomes people from everywhere with open arms, even if they come here illegally.
Re: Liberals want health care for illegals And many conservatives don't voice a strong opposition to illegal immigration or propose businesses be fined because that would damage most of their political contributions . . . and it would cost them more to up keep their country club, their house and their favorite restaurants.
Re: Liberals want health care for illegals I couldn't agree more. There's been a lot of cowardice on both sides of the aisle, and I'm just as disgusted with some of the Republicans as I am with the Democrats. However, the only complaints you hear about illegal immigration seem to come from conservatives.
Where have you been?? Every time anyone talks about deporting illegals, or building a wall on our southern border, most liberals scream that you're "anti-immigration."
