<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BRavens)</div><div class='quotemain'>I have been skimming these posts and have concluded that one person don't no what he is talking about. Losman isn't Brett Faver or Drew Bledsoe yet in his career and he'll struggle. I like the situation he has been put into with a great offense but he has no experience and the AFC is gonna overtake the Bills this year. The Ravens,Bengals,Cheifs,Jets,Steelers,Pats.Jags,Colts and Chargers are all gonna finish ahead of the Bills. They have a very slim shot at the playoffs this year.</div> Boy you aren't a homer - putting the Ravens down first - did you like seeing Willis McGahee putting Ray Lewis on his @$$ with his mean @$$ straight arm last year? How many points did your O score on us again? Serious question. and how many points were scored because Bledsoe gave you guys an INT that you returned for a TD? another serious question - I didn't see the whole game - except for the Willis vs Lewis part the rest of it I pretty much burned from my memory. I really only saw like the 2nd and 3rd quarter and like part of the fourth - I was drunk - so I don't remember that much. didn't you guys get some great field position too because of Bledsoe turnovers? when ever you want to admit that ultimately it was your D that beat us on a day that our O just stunk it up - Your O had a terrible day against our D that game if I remember correctly. And also, that was before we really turned our season around - if we played you guys like towards the end of the year that game might have happened differently. Yeah, you guys beat us, but you guys also did a great job of showing how bad Bledsoe was at times for us - I'll guarantee you that Losman will NOT have a game where he throws 5 INTs this year (most of which went to Deion Sanders). Yes, I've acknowledged that he will be confused, but 5 INTs - he'll be benched before that and Holcombe will come in mark my words. Who's Brett Faver? As bad as we spanked the Bengals - if you sincerely think they will be better then us this year, I think you need to look at how thoroughly our D line handled their O-line, (yeah, we lost pat williams to the vikings, but Kelsay looks primed for a breakout year - he may end up being our best DE this year and he's playing against Mike Williams in TC not Mike Gandy like Schobel) or how well Nate Clements handled Chad Johnson. I honestly liked seeing Cincinatti get their hands on the ball because I knew we were gonna get the ball back real soon with our D - D highlights are so much more fun to see on Sportscenter - almost as fun as that Jason Peters blocked punt for a TD recovery in the endzone. that opinion of the Jets is just because you don't know anything about the AFC East, and you saw that they finished with a better record then us because we got out to a slow start (not uncommon with a rookie head coach). I can't really say anything about the chiefs - I didn't really pay attention to them last season, don't know what record they finished with, and I really haven't been able to see them in action enough to form an opinion - and truthfully I think that's a comment that was just made to spite me. We did finish with a better record then the chiefs, and we get them at our house - that's really the kind of game that a smart person would bet on the home team.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats37)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vikingfan)</div><div class='quotemain'> Correct me if I'm wrong, but mobile QB's often have larger tackle's for losses than an immobile QB. Because they are more likely to scramble, they get caught too often far behind the line. </div> I totally agree your leaders besides poor david carr.... Vick - 46 sacks Culpepper - 46 sacks Then there is Brady who has a sun dial 40 time.. 26sacks...or Manning who is at his worst on the move with 13 sacks...</div> then there was the immobile Bledsoe who in three years as a pocket passer was sacked 143 times (54 times three years ago, 51 times 2 years ago, and 38 times last year - McNally's first year as OL coach). I don't think Losman's going to need to scramble before he makes a smart decision with how to get rid of the football - the O line has been a pleasant surprise in training camp for us believe it or not.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>then there was the immobile Bledsoe who in three years as a pocket passer was sacked 143 times (54 times three years ago, 51 times 2 years ago, and 38 times last year - McNally's first year as OL coach). I don't think Losman's going to need to scramble before he makes a smart decision with how to get rid of the football - the O line has been a pleasant surprise in training camp for us believe it or not.</div> My point was simple...mobile QB's have the tendency to get sacked more. I'm not saying that being mobile is bad...it is definitely a good quality of Culpepper, McNabb, and Vick's only good quality (IMO), but it certainly doesn't make a good QB. If Losman is going to be better than Bledsoe, then he has to be better in terms of completing passes and not turning the ball over. Maybe he can do it...I hope for your sake he can.
like I said earlier - it took him over a week to throw his first INT in practice against the leagues #2 D (number 1 in takeaways) - from what I've seen, I don't think the INT thing will be a big problem (of course he will throw INTs they're inevitable) If he is sacked more then Bledsoe he's forgiven if he throws fewer INTs. And certainly not 5 in a single game like Bledsoe did against the Ravens.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>like I said earlier - it took him over a week to throw his first INT in practice against the leagues #2 D (number 1 in takeaways) - from what I've seen, I don't think the INT thing will be a big problem (of course he will throw INTs they're inevitable) If he is sacked more then Bledsoe he's forgiven if he throws fewer INTs. And certainly not 5 in a single game like Bledsoe did against the Ravens.</div> Well, hopefully that continues. Often time what happens in practice doesn't carry over onto the field. Again, I hope for your sake that he does well. I personally don't know if he will do well or not...I do know that to expect a new QB to put up great numbers is usually unrealistic.
Expect if he throws 15 TDs he will have 15 INTS. TKO why dont you put your money where your mouth is and with your 1st round pick in the fanstasy football draft you should draft JP Losman they way you think he is gonna do he should be a good 1st round selection
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BRavens)</div><div class='quotemain'>I have been skimming these posts and have concluded that one person don't no what he is talking about. Losman isn't Brett Faver or Drew Bledsoe yet in his career and he'll struggle. I like the situation he has been put into with a great offense but he has no experience and the AFC is gonna overtake the Bills this year. The Ravens,Bengals,Cheifs,Jets,Steelers,Pats.Jags,Colts and Chargers are all gonna finish ahead of the Bills. They have a very slim shot at the playoffs this year.</div> Boy you aren't a homer - putting the Ravens down first - did you like seeing Willis McGahee putting Ray Lewis on his @$$ with his mean @$$ straight arm last year? How many points did your O score on us again? Serious question. and how many points were scored because Bledsoe gave you guys an INT that you returned for a TD? another serious question - I didn't see the whole game - except for the Willis vs Lewis part the rest of it I pretty much burned from my memory. I really only saw like the 2nd and 3rd quarter and like part of the fourth - I was drunk - so I don't remember that much. didn't you guys get some great field position too because of Bledsoe turnovers? when ever you want to admit that ultimately it was your D that beat us on a day that our O just stunk it up - Your O had a terrible day against our D that game if I remember correctly. And also, that was before we really turned our season around - if we played you guys like towards the end of the year that game might have happened differently. Yeah, you guys beat us, but you guys also did a great job of showing how bad Bledsoe was at times for us - I'll guarantee you that Losman will NOT have a game where he throws 5 INTs this year (most of which went to Deion Sanders). Yes, I've acknowledged that he will be confused, but 5 INTs - he'll be benched before that and Holcombe will come in mark my words. Who's Brett Faver? As bad as we spanked the Bengals - if you sincerely think they will be better then us this year, I think you need to look at how thoroughly our D line handled their O-line, (yeah, we lost pat williams to the vikings, but Kelsay looks primed for a breakout year - he may end up being our best DE this year and he's playing against Mike Williams in TC not Mike Gandy like Schobel) or how well Nate Clements handled Chad Johnson. I honestly liked seeing Cincinatti get their hands on the ball because I knew we were gonna get the ball back real soon with our D - D highlights are so much more fun to see on Sportscenter - almost as fun as that Jason Peters blocked punt for a TD recovery in the endzone. that opinion of the Jets is just because you don't know anything about the AFC East, and you saw that they finished with a better record then us because we got out to a slow start (not uncommon with a rookie head coach). I can't really say anything about the chiefs - I didn't really pay attention to them last season, don't know what record they finished with, and I really haven't been able to see them in action enough to form an opinion - and truthfully I think that's a comment that was just made to spite me. We did finish with a better record then the chiefs, and we get them at our house - that's really the kind of game that a smart person would bet on the home team.</div> I continue to read you posts TKO and I am not here to start a fight but you don't seem to understand the concept of football. Let me break it down. 1. Hey great. You bring up a game that means nothing a part of this discussion. You bring up an unproven QB who isn't gonna do much this year at all. Good for you. Do you feel better about yourself about bringing up a meaningless game NOW that happen in 2004. Wait a minute it's 2005. Don't get lost behind me and the other forum numbers now. Hurry and catch up quickly. Maybe you can run as fast a JP will from the entire AFC East this season. 2. Wow Ray Lewis got stiffed arm. Great. Show me a player that neve has. Even the orginal LT got stiffed arm before. It happens. McGahee is a hell of player. 3. @$$ it's ASS. I am not sure bout the rulez on here but I seen worse words than that already by a mod and I have been a member for one day. 4. Hmmmmmmmm I though 21 was the legal drinking age. Not 10 like some of your posts indicate how old you are. 5. Faver my by bad typo. It happens. You see grown ups tend to type faster than children. Your learn when you take a typing class don't worry bout it. What I meant to say is Brett Favre a QB that JP better pray to the all mighty football gods that he turns out half of what Favre is. 6. Bengals hmmmmmmm 2004 you beat them. Again you must of felt really special. congrats but again 2005. Hurry JP Hurry. 7. I don't no anything about the AFC East. I do no the JETS have a very strong club back. A solid defense and offense. Not to mention they signed Ty Law who remains the best corner in the divsion. They sound pretty dam good to me. Not with a team who has JP at QB. JP should pray to the football gods that he plays as good as Pennington does. Pennington is very underrated. Football fact of the day TKO. Did you know Chad Pennington has never committed a turnover in the redzone. Thats how you get it done. 8. As for the Cheifs. Better records. Records don't matter. Neither of you made the playoffs. you both were loosers in 2004. By the looks of it though I like Trent Green as a QB over JP Losman anyday. So I think the Cheifs will contend. 8 things to read TKO. I am sorry if I affended anyones team in any way but I think he is the only Bills fan on here from the posts that I read. By the way didn't your mama ever tell you never to put a mark on words. Thats not good.
We don't even know if the Jets are getting the same Ty Law - you don't know anymore then anyone else in the league how Ty Law is gonna look when he comes back so that's a subject that I wouldn't be to quick to pounce on. if he isn't then the best CB in the division is Clements (a Bill) who I might remind you is just hitting his prime right now where as Ty Law is going into the twilight of his career. I'm 25. My team is on the rise just like the bengals (are supposed to be) - so I still say you have to give the edge to the Bills regardless of who's at QB for us. You know the jets have a strong club because the media hypes them up more then they do the bills after all who wants to read about a team that went to 4 SBs in a row and loses them - sue me for liking a non media darling team - but buffalo was two points away from sweeping the Jets last year. How often do you hear the media talking about our #2 D, our number one D in take-aways, our #1 D in scoring, our #3 for Sacks? How often do you hear about our special teams or the fact that we tied the NFL record for Sp. teams TD returns at 5 (3 terrence McGee, two Clements). Or the fact that Buffalo had the best average drive starting position last year, or the fact that our O-line has given up significantly less sacks last year (we dropped from 51 to 38 in Mularkey's first year as coach). Also remember that the only game last year where we absolutely got manhandled was the New England game at Gillette stadium. I'm tired of trying to show you guys why Buffalo is a VERY legitimate playoff team this year - that's ok, we can start the ASSkissing with you (hopefully to be followed by Pats37, Jets1083 and after that I'll probably forget because everyone will shut up I'm sure) and everyone else on this board that didn't want to hear what I was saying. You guys act as though a crappy to mediocre quarterback has never taken a team to the playoffs. No one better try to act like they weren't surprised when we're well over .500 by the time our bye rolls around except for BleedBlk&Gld (the saints fan on here).
This is a message for TKO and BRavens. Pay attention to this post as I do not like the direction you guys are taking with this discussion. You guys are both new to the forum, so this post is being made as a heads up post on the rules of the forum (which you can and should read by clicking here. First swearing. Since this was brought up, the general rule on swearing is that it is allowed, but not encouraged. Don't swear for the sake of swearing or being obnoxious...those posts will be edited out. Mentioning an ass kicking is acceptable. Secondly, and more importantly, avoid any and all personal attacks. The older members of this forum will tell you that this is the one thing that I cannot stand, and the one thing that will destroy a forum faster than anything else. Respect the other posters as people, even if you think their football knowledge is crap. Debate football, don't call a person names. As you hang around the forums longer you will find that this rule gets relaxed a little bit as we get to know each other. Usually with older members there is a fair amount of sarcasm and joking around that can be interpreted as personal attacks. As newer members, it would be good to avoid anything that can be interpreted as being a personal attack. I am always available to be contacted at nfl@nfl-forums.com if you have any questions.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>We don't even know if the Jets are getting the same Ty Law - you don't know anymore then anyone else in the league how Ty Law is gonna look when he comes back so that's a subject that I wouldn't be to quick to pounce on. if he isn't then the best CB in the division is Clements (a Bill) who I might remind you is just hitting his prime right now where as Ty Law is going into the twilight of his career. I'm 25. My team is on the rise just like the bengals (are supposed to be) - so I still say you have to give the edge to the Bills regardless of who's at QB for us. You know the jets have a strong club because the media hypes them up more then they do the bills after all who wants to read about a team that went to 4 SBs in a row and loses them - sue me for liking a non media darling team - but buffalo was two points away from sweeping the Jets last year. How often do you hear the media talking about our #2 D, our number one D in take-aways, our #1 D in scoring, our #3 for Sacks? How often do you hear about our special teams or the fact that we tied the NFL record for Sp. teams TD returns at 5 (3 terrence McGee, two Clements). Or the fact that Buffalo had the best average drive starting position last year, or the fact that our O-line has given up significantly less sacks last year (we dropped from 51 to 38 in Mularkey's first year as coach). Also remember that the only game last year where we absolutely got manhandled was the New England game at Gillette stadium. I'm tired of trying to show you guys why Buffalo is a VERY legitimate playoff team this year - that's ok, we can start the ASSkissing with you (hopefully to be followed by Pats37, Jets1083 and after that I'll probably forget because everyone will shut up I'm sure) and everyone else on this board that didn't want to hear what I was saying. You guys act as though a crappy to mediocre quarterback has never taken a team to the playoffs. No one better try to act like they weren't surprised when we're well over .500 by the time our bye rolls around except for BleedBlk&Gld (the saints fan on here).</div> You just better hope your bills back you up my friend...cus you have talked the most BS on this site...as for ass kissing..there will be none by me...I've just witnessed a Dynasty...talk to me when your bills get one...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>We don't even know if the Jets are getting the same Ty Law - you don't know anymore then anyone else in the league how Ty Law is gonna look when he comes back so that's a subject that I wouldn't be to quick to pounce on. if he isn't then the best CB in the division is Clements (a Bill) who I might remind you is just hitting his prime right now where as Ty Law is going into the twilight of his career. I'm 25. My team is on the rise just like the bengals (are supposed to be) - so I still say you have to give the edge to the Bills regardless of who's at QB for us. You know the jets have a strong club because the media hypes them up more then they do the bills after all who wants to read about a team that went to 4 SBs in a row and loses them - sue me for liking a non media darling team - but buffalo was two points away from sweeping the Jets last year. How often do you hear the media talking about our #2 D, our number one D in take-aways, our #1 D in scoring, our #3 for Sacks? How often do you hear about our special teams or the fact that we tied the NFL record for Sp. teams TD returns at 5 (3 terrence McGee, two Clements). Or the fact that Buffalo had the best average drive starting position last year, or the fact that our O-line has given up significantly less sacks last year (we dropped from 51 to 38 in Mularkey's first year as coach). Also remember that the only game last year where we absolutely got manhandled was the New England game at Gillette stadium. I'm tired of trying to show you guys why Buffalo is a VERY legitimate playoff team this year - that's ok, we can start the ASSkissing with you (hopefully to be followed by Pats37, Jets1083 and after that I'll probably forget because everyone will shut up I'm sure) and everyone else on this board that didn't want to hear what I was saying. You guys act as though a crappy to mediocre quarterback has never taken a team to the playoffs. No one better try to act like they weren't surprised when we're well over .500 by the time our bye rolls around except for BleedBlk&Gld (the saints fan on here).</div> hey sorry if I offended you in anyway I just get worked up when I see posts that I think are just way off. Thats my opinion and you got yours. I just hope for your sake that the Bills at least make the playoffs because I've read a lot of posts on this forum and you seem to be the most confident in your team sweeping Jets and walking through the AFC East like its no problem.
the one team that I know for sure will give us a loss or two in the East is the Pats - I can take anything you guys can dish out. I'm just tired of everyone (especially the media) overlooking Buffalo for something that happened over 10 years ago - there is NO one on this team still from the Superbowl years. I've pretty much been throwing facts out at everybody in why I believe (you happy now Pats37) the Bills will be in the playoffs. By the way - you guys know that Robertson for the Jets probably won't be playing us the way his knees are missing cartilage between the thighbone and the calf bone - his durability and longevity are definitely something I'd be concerned about if I was a jets fan - you guys better hope who ever's behind him on the depth chart can step up if he is unable to go at some point in this season. I also love it when I point out how we totally dominated the Bengals last year and the fact that we now have even more experience in our new O but yet 'the bengals are gonna beat us this year' when we play them on christmas eve. Ravens,Bengals,Cheifs,Jets,Jags,Chargers are all gonna finish ahead of us huh? The Jets beat the chargers at San Diego last year - is it just me, or have we seen the chargers go to the playoffs one year and then stink it up the next more then once? I think we have. Plus we do match up well with the chargers we're very similar in a lot of respects minus - they've got the advantage over us in TEs, but we got the advantage over them in LBers. RBs will be a push because both will be effective. Their QB is better, but let's see him show some consistency before we crown him proven (I never said Losman was proven - I will however say he's got the physical tools to make plays and he WILL make plays). The Ravens are a push if we played them - no one can honestly say how it would unfold - and it would probably come down to homefield advantage. The Bengals we'd beat again. the Jags are a model of inconsistency who got swept by the Texans last year. the Chiefs haven't done anything in 2 years and have health issues with Priest Holmes. The Jets will be tough games, but I can see us pulling the W off against them in both meetings - to me they are very overrated - but what do I know I only watch them twice a year.
The problem I have with everything you are saying is that you are presenting facts as a Bills fan would see them. Every offseason every team has a chance to make the playoffs. Its easy to see all the positives of your team and fail to see the possible negatives. Beyond that, its extremely hard to see how much other teams have actually improved. Every team in this league tries to improve from year to year. You are offering a lot of strong talk and some very bold predictions...anytime you do that you people are going to doubt your sanity.
My problem right now is that all you bring up is stuff from last season. Great you guys are more experience now but the other teams aren't???????????? Last season is done. The Ravens have gotten better and the Cheifs have as well. The Bengals are a lot better now like it or not. Palmer has a year in so expect him to play better. You need to quite lingering on and on about the past and look at the future.
Considering it was Kitna who can't go as deep as Carson playing you guys last year and a team that was missing alot of starters by that time, including Nate Webster, Palmer, and others Id say the Bengals have a great chance of royaly thumping you. The Bengals have a top 10 Offense with a solid top 15-20 defense that won't give up as many big plays as last year they should be more than enough to combat the bills shakey O-line.
You can really only talk about gaining experience for a player that last year was his 1st year starting. Example Carson Palmer he started all last year and he should be better because of the experience last year. But players that have started for 2 or more years experience really doesnt matter because they already know whats going on its just there skill level that will determine how he does
Fine let's look at the future - JP Losman has two training camps under his belt, and a full healthy offseason - this puts him in a serious advantage over any true rookie. - I'd say it's a significantly less than 50% chance that he's a bust - not to mention he's learning to play the position from the very same guy who coached Montana (in SF) and Esiason (in Cincy). Our D lost one measily person who is being replaced by a more then serviceable player in Ron Edwards. In fact Ron Edwards is much better at pressuring the QB then Pat Williams was, but isn't as good against the run - this will help our pass D improve where as our running game might take an unnoticeable step back given the fact that we've still got Sam Adams and both our DEs are beasts against the run game. It is very possible our D could be even better this year. Our O line has improved drastically under Jim McNally and should continue to improve this season even more as the season wears on as they get more experience in his blocking schemes (this will obviously help Losman as well). An O line is the single most important thing I can think of if you want to field a good O because it affects both the passing game and the running game - you give your QB time - he's bound to pick a D apart - you open holes for your runningback, he's gonna chip away 4 or 5 yards a carry. You can also make the safeties cheat up to worry about stopping the run which will open up the deep passing game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tko51)</div><div class='quotemain'>Fine let's look at the future - JP Losman has two training camps under his belt, and a full healthy offseason - this puts him in a serious advantage over any true rookie. - I'd say it's a significantly less than 50% chance that he's a bust - not to mention he's learning to play the position from the very same guy who coached Montana (in SF) and Esiason (in Cincy). Our D lost one measily person who is being replaced by a more then serviceable player in Ron Edwards. In fact Ron Edwards is much better at pressuring the QB then Pat Williams was, but isn't as good against the run - this will help our pass D improve where as our running game might take an unnoticeable step back given the fact that we've still got Sam Adams and both our DEs are beasts against the run game. It is very possible our D could be even better this year. Our O line has improved drastically under Jim McNally and should continue to improve this season even more as the season wears on as they get more experience in his blocking schemes (this will obviously help Losman as well). An O line is the single most important thing I can think of if you want to field a good O because it affects both the passing game and the running game - you give your QB time - he's bound to pick a D apart - you open holes for your runningback, he's gonna chip away 4 or 5 yards a carry. You can also make the safeties cheat up to worry about stopping the run which will open up the deep passing game.</div> Keep believing because your gonna need it if you think Pat Williams was on little lost. He is a huge lost and hurts that defense. Again it's like what everyone saying if the Bills don't sweep the Jets,Dolphins and beat the Bengals(not sure if they play)your gonna hear a lot from the members of this forum.
again, don't try to tell me you know more about my team - pat Williams is not getting any younger, and had fewer sacks then Edwards THIS YEAR while starting. Williams was a beast against the run, but Edwards will hold his own I'm sure, but is a better pass rusher. feel free to not post if you don't know what you're talking about - just because you're worried about facing him twice a year with your joke of an O line doesn't mean that he's as good as you say, and he's not.
