OT Love's Return to Mini

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Daweez04, Jan 30, 2015.

  1. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    The Detroit Pistons and that's it
     
  2. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    60,908
    Likes Received:
    21,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    What are you talking about? Jordan didn't have 7 years without Pippen, lol.
     
  3. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    17,596
    Likes Received:
    11,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dallas with dirk, but apparently his 2 finals appearances don't count.
     
  4. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    10,729
    Likes Received:
    7,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I provided you with a list of non-transcendent players who made the Finals - none of them are PFs.
    Include everybody and only 4 teams in the last 30 years were built around PFs (being generous and including the Payton/Kemp and Stockton/Malone teams that weren't truly centered around PFs, but were instead 1Bs).
     
  5. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    Oh forgive me. 5 years. It took 7 years before he won a title.
     
  6. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California

    I'm talking transcendentless player teams. Dirk is absolutely a transcendent player
     
  7. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    60,908
    Likes Received:
    21,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    Try again. 3 years. Pippen was drafted and traded to Bulls in 1987. Also- Jordan missed almost an entire year in there so he really only played 2 seasons without Pippen. Learn the game, dude. Then post.
     
  8. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    This only proves my initial comment with more validity. Even with Pippen for 4 years, he didn't mature until 7 years in the league. Dame did it in year 2
     
  9. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    60,908
    Likes Received:
    21,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    You guys are throwing the word transcendent around too much. Jordan is and was the only transcendent player, a guy who was bigger than basketball. People who didn't even like basketball tuned into see him. Durant, LeBron,Dirk are not even close to Jordan. Fuck Durant didn't even get voted in by the fans, If you don't believe me about LeBron and the others, look at the ratings for the 6 Finals Jordan was in. Now look at everybody else. Not even close.
     
  10. BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94

    BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 AWOL

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    21,056
    Likes Received:
    10,366
    Trophy Points:
    113
    LeBron has that kind of pull, remember the decision? Everyone and their dog had an opinion. Everyone tuned in to see him fail.
     
  11. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    10,729
    Likes Received:
    7,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ALL of the evidence doesn't need to support it. But the preponderance of evidence supports the idea that teams built around PFs don't make the Finals. Again, as with EVERYTHING, there are exceptions to the rule and nothing is going to be one way 100% of the time.
    And I'm not saying that I'd build a team around Iverson - I'm merely showing that, of the teams that have made it to the Finals over the past 30 years, the vast majority are built around guards/wings. Teams built around good guards/wings have a puncher's chance, teams built around good PFs generally don't.
     
  12. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    59,328
    Likes Received:
    5,587
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Cracking fools in the skull
    Location:
    Lancaster, California
    Wrong!!!!

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

    LBJ actually had averaged better PER than Jordan during their finals campaign.

    More LBJ fans than anyone in every gym

    Learn the Game... Then post
     
  13. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    10,729
    Likes Received:
    7,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd ascribe the word to Jordan, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, and to a lesser extent Kobe, LBJ, and Shaq (Shaq only because he was so damn big and dominant, not because of his skills).
    Right now we don't have that type of player in the league.
     
  14. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2008
    Messages:
    17,596
    Likes Received:
    11,213
    Trophy Points:
    113
    but you kind of countered this point when earlier you said of course it was easier to find failures because so many more teams were built around them. So then, naturally, you'd find a higher number succeeding. How many teams are built in general around PFs versus wings? How many percentage wise make the playoffs versus percentage of teams built around wings?
     
  15. blue9

    blue9 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    10,729
    Likes Received:
    7,169
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, now you might be on track to providing a meaningful counter-argument, but I'm not going to make your argument for you. Earlier in the thread I gave you a list of some of the best PFs that teams built around that didn't amount to much, which could be a good starting point. If you go down this route realize that you'll be comparing 3 positions worth of players (PG, SG, SF) vs 1 position worth of players (PF), so there's bound to be a good deal more teams built around guards/wings.
     
  16. Daweez04

    Daweez04 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    297
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Senior Buyer
    Location:
    Beaverton
    The difference is LMA puts up the same numbers whether the team is a playoff team or not. Guys like Love and Bosh all but disappear on their more "elite" teams. LMA is what makes the Blazers "elite". To me, it shows they are all about their numbers and not necessarily winning.
     
  17. PDXFonz

    PDXFonz I’m listening

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    18,714
    Likes Received:
    15,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I guess you and I have a differing opinion on the talent level of that roster. I think Love should have been able to carry the Wolves to the playoffs at least once with that roster. He was never even close.
     
  18. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    60,908
    Likes Received:
    21,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
  19. KingSpeed

    KingSpeed Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    60,908
    Likes Received:
    21,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    actor
    Location:
    New York
    No. 2007 Finals was one of the lowest rated finals ever.
     
  20. Strenuus

    Strenuus Global Moderator Staff Member Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2013
    Messages:
    48,608
    Likes Received:
    33,632
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Was that before or after the decision? Because LBJ Transcended when the decision happened. He did the ol' WWE Face/heel swap. They made a damn "Heat index" page on E!SPN just so they could have a whole section about him.

    I wonder what the finals ratings were from 08-14?
     

Share This Page