Maccabi Tel-Aviv in Talks with Carlos Arroyo [RUMOR]

Discussion in 'International Basketball' started by kobimel, Aug 1, 2008.

  1. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    According to the Israeli sports site "Sport5", Maccabi "Elektra" Tel-Aviv are in talks with Orlando Magic PG Carlos Arroyo.

    http://www.sport5.co.il/articles.aspx?fold...466&lang=HE [HEBREW]

    Rought Translation (1st Paragraph):

    Maccabi TA have begun talks with Carlos Arroyo, who played for the Orlando Magic last season. Arroyo, the Puerto Rican NT's starting point guard, whose contract with the Magic has expired, has received numerous, rather cheap contract offers from NBA teams, and thus has considered moving to Europe. Yesterday, a major front office member at Maccabi told Sport5 that Jason Williams, former Miami Heat point guard, won't be joining the team.

    http://www.one.co.il/Article/120858.html [HEBREW]

    Rough Translation:

    Carlos Arroyo and Jason Williams won't be joining Maccabi Tel Aviv, according to a major source at the team. "They're too pricey", he says.

    ONE learned that Williams' price tag is around 3 million dollars. "In my opinion, they won't play for Maccabi", added the source. "We're constantly searching [for a new point guard], today more players will be available, after the NBA player registration deadline will pass and I believe we will find a good and fitting point guard."

    Nobody at Maccabi believed that finding a new point guard would be such a complicated task. Assistant coach Roi Hagai was sent to the Las Vegas Summer League and watched many players, but head coach Efi Birenboim was set on waiting for Will Solomon, as was originaly reported by ONE, who eventually signed with the Toronto Raptors.

    The list of candidates for the starting point guard spot is getting shorter from day to day, as both Dan Dickau and Andre Barrett get closer to Bologna (Virtus and it's city rival, respectively). Bobby Brown, who was considered a decent option, is no longer available.

    Despite this, Maccabi are trying to signal bussiness as usual. "We're not pressured", said team chairman Shimon Mizrachi.
     
  2. AEM

    AEM Gesundheit

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    Too pricey, and too much dribbling. They do need to sign somebody, but not those two.
     
  3. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AEM @ Aug 1 2008, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Too pricey, and too much dribbling. They do need to sign somebody, but not those two.</div>

    Thing is, right now Maccabi NEED a well known NBA player, because they need to show their fans that the team would be able to compete with CSKA, Olympiakos, Panathinaikos, Barcelona, etc. So far, they haven't found that player. So far Maccabi have sold around 4/5 of their season tickets, which isn't really good considering that the beginning of the season isn't too far away anymore.
     
  4. AEM

    AEM Gesundheit

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    I agree that they need a big-name player, but they also need someone who'll help win them some games, and mesh with the offense. What other ex-NBA guards are available?
     
  5. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AEM @ Aug 2 2008, 04:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree that they need a big-name player, but they also need someone who'll help win them some games, and mesh with the offense. What other ex-NBA guards are available?</div>

    Looks like according to reports in Israel, they're chasing after Earl Boykins as well, but he fits in the big ego/lots of dribbling category too. If I were them I would take a risk on a guy like Moochie Norris.
     
  6. AEM

    AEM Gesundheit

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    I like Morris a lot better than any of the other three. Are they actively pursuing him?
     
  7. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    Not that I know of...looks like the Arroyo signing is official, though, so the saga seems to be over.
     
  8. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck
     
  9. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
     
  10. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    http://sportstwo.com/NBA/Story/NBA/2751839

    Former Magic G Arroyo bolts for Israel
    Monday, August 4, 2008 12:23 AM

    BRISTOL, Connecticut (Ticker) -- Former Orlando Magic point guard Carlos Arroyo signed a three-year contract with Israel giant Maccabi Tel-Aviv on Sunday, according to a report by ESPN.

    In a growing trend, Arroyo is the eighth free agent to leave the NBA for foreign riches this offseason, although most have been role players who are more valuable to foreign teams.

    According to the report, the 29-year-old will receive an estimated $2.5 million next season -- roughly the equivalent of a $5 million NBA salary after taxes. The deal includes an opt-out provision that will enable Arroyo to return to the NBA after each of the next two seasons.

    Arroyo averaged 6.9 points and 3.5 assists in 62 regular season games, but fell out of favor and appeared in just four of the Magic's 10 postseason games. Arroyo has career averages of 7.0 points and 3.3 assists in parts of seven seasons with Denver, Toronto, Utah, Detroit and Orlando.

    He joins former NBA players Josh Childress (Greece), Nenad Krstic (Russia), Bostjan Nachbar (Russia) Juan Carlos Navarro (Spain), Jorge Garbajosa (Russia) and Primoz Brezec (Italy) and Carlos Delfino (Russia) as players who left their NBA teams for foreign clubs since free agency began on July 1.
     
  11. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
     
  12. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
    </div>

    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
     
  13. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
    </div>

    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
    </div>

    Lately, it seems about half the league has been using pick and rolls, though. You can point to a number of teams - Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Nets, etc - that use the pick and roll for most of the game.

    Hell, Arroyo played with one of the best pick and roll coaches, if not the best in the NBA - Sloan - so why couldn't he get it together there?
     
  14. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
    </div>

    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
    </div>

    Lately, it seems about half the league has been using pick and rolls, though. You can point to a number of teams - Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Nets, etc - that use the pick and roll for most of the game.

    Hell, Arroyo played with one of the best pick and roll coaches, if not the best in the NBA - Sloan - so why couldn't he get it together there?
    </div>

    It seems like he's just more comfortable playing with players who grew up playing the same "game" as him. I think that if you put the Puerto Rican NT in the NBA, playing by NBA rules, he'd do better than he did with Utah/Orlando/Detroit.

    Another big difference between the NBA and Europe: the NBA game is much, much more athletic. In Europe, an alley oop is considered pretty rare, and just one can really cause a major momentum change, since the crowd usually goes nuts. In the NBA it's pretty common to see 3-4 alley oops per game. Watch Team USA, for example: every 3rd basket of theirs is a dunk. They're way too fast to keep up with, so they score a lot of fast break points. The Europeans just aren't as athletic, so set plays have become key in the Euro leagues.
     
  15. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
    </div>

    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
    </div>

    Lately, it seems about half the league has been using pick and rolls, though. You can point to a number of teams - Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Nets, etc - that use the pick and roll for most of the game.

    Hell, Arroyo played with one of the best pick and roll coaches, if not the best in the NBA - Sloan - so why couldn't he get it together there?
    </div>

    It seems like he's just more comfortable playing with players who grew up playing the same "game" as him. I think that if you put the Puerto Rican NT in the NBA, playing by NBA rules, he'd do better than he did with Utah/Orlando/Detroit.

    Another big difference between the NBA and Europe: the NBA game is much, much more athletic. In Europe, an alley oop is considered pretty rare, and just one can really cause a major momentum change, since the crowd usually goes nuts. In the NBA it's pretty common to see 3-4 alley oops per game. Watch Team USA, for example: every 3rd basket of theirs is a dunk. They're way too fast to keep up with, so they score a lot of fast break points. The Europeans just aren't as athletic, so set plays have become key in the Euro leagues.

    </div>

    Ah, I see.

    Although, I don't buy the athletic thing when it comes to Arroyo. I mean, since when is athleticism all that important in a point guard? Jose Calderon, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash are some of the most effective and yet least athletic players in the NBA. A point guard doesn't need to rely on athleticism, they simply rely on quickness and skillz.
     
  16. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
    </div>

    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
    </div>

    Lately, it seems about half the league has been using pick and rolls, though. You can point to a number of teams - Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Nets, etc - that use the pick and roll for most of the game.

    Hell, Arroyo played with one of the best pick and roll coaches, if not the best in the NBA - Sloan - so why couldn't he get it together there?
    </div>

    It seems like he's just more comfortable playing with players who grew up playing the same "game" as him. I think that if you put the Puerto Rican NT in the NBA, playing by NBA rules, he'd do better than he did with Utah/Orlando/Detroit.

    Another big difference between the NBA and Europe: the NBA game is much, much more athletic. In Europe, an alley oop is considered pretty rare, and just one can really cause a major momentum change, since the crowd usually goes nuts. In the NBA it's pretty common to see 3-4 alley oops per game. Watch Team USA, for example: every 3rd basket of theirs is a dunk. They're way too fast to keep up with, so they score a lot of fast break points. The Europeans just aren't as athletic, so set plays have become key in the Euro leagues.

    </div>

    Ah, I see.

    Although, I don't buy the athletic thing when it comes to Arroyo. I mean, since when is athleticism all that important in a point guard? Jose Calderon, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash are some of the most effective and yet least athletic players in the NBA. A point guard doesn't need to rely on athleticism, they simply rely on quickness and skillz.
    </div>

    Arroyo's athleticism isn't the point here, though. The point is that the entire NBA game revolves around athleticism, while the European game doesn't. Arroyo flourishes in the less athletic game, it seems.
     
  17. pegs

    pegs My future wife.

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
    </div>

    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
    </div>

    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
    </div>

    Lately, it seems about half the league has been using pick and rolls, though. You can point to a number of teams - Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Nets, etc - that use the pick and roll for most of the game.

    Hell, Arroyo played with one of the best pick and roll coaches, if not the best in the NBA - Sloan - so why couldn't he get it together there?
    </div>

    It seems like he's just more comfortable playing with players who grew up playing the same "game" as him. I think that if you put the Puerto Rican NT in the NBA, playing by NBA rules, he'd do better than he did with Utah/Orlando/Detroit.

    Another big difference between the NBA and Europe: the NBA game is much, much more athletic. In Europe, an alley oop is considered pretty rare, and just one can really cause a major momentum change, since the crowd usually goes nuts. In the NBA it's pretty common to see 3-4 alley oops per game. Watch Team USA, for example: every 3rd basket of theirs is a dunk. They're way too fast to keep up with, so they score a lot of fast break points. The Europeans just aren't as athletic, so set plays have become key in the Euro leagues.

    </div>

    Ah, I see.

    Although, I don't buy the athletic thing when it comes to Arroyo. I mean, since when is athleticism all that important in a point guard? Jose Calderon, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash are some of the most effective and yet least athletic players in the NBA. A point guard doesn't need to rely on athleticism, they simply rely on quickness and skillz.
    </div>

    Arroyo's athleticism isn't the point here, though. The point is that the entire NBA game revolves around athleticism, while the European game doesn't. Arroyo flourishes in the less athletic game, it seems.
    </div>

    Oh, I see where you're coming from, now. Actually, that reminds me of Jasikevicius. I saw him in the USA - Lithuania game last night. I remembered him being mentioned as the best European not in the NBA...and then, he came over and floundered.
     
  18. kobimel

    kobimel Hapoel

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Aug 4 2008, 09:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Aug 4 2008, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Arroyo sucked in the NBA. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Now, maybe the Magic can actually get a good 3rd string PG, one that doesn't suck</div>

    Aren't 3rd string point guards supposed to suck? lol

    Anyway, Arroyo is built for the international game, not for the NBA. He'll do well for Maccabi.
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    I dunno, maybe. But when your 1st string and 2nd string point guards have injury problems, you're gonna need 3rd string not to suck.

    He was always great in games against Team USA. That seems so odd though - I mean, it's all basketball. Why should his performance in the NBA be any different from the International game?
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    It's a different style of basketball. In the NBA you'll find mostly man to man defenses, and the offense is built heavily on individual performances in most cases. In Europe, you'll find a lot of zone defenses (like the ones Team USA is facing in the pre-Olympics games) and since the players are usually not as talented as NBA players, teams rely on a lot of pick and rolls or complicated plays on offense. Arroyo seems to fit the international mentality better.
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    Lately, it seems about half the league has been using pick and rolls, though. You can point to a number of teams - Suns, Spurs, Jazz, Nets, etc - that use the pick and roll for most of the game.

    Hell, Arroyo played with one of the best pick and roll coaches, if not the best in the NBA - Sloan - so why couldn't he get it together there?
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    It seems like he's just more comfortable playing with players who grew up playing the same "game" as him. I think that if you put the Puerto Rican NT in the NBA, playing by NBA rules, he'd do better than he did with Utah/Orlando/Detroit.

    Another big difference between the NBA and Europe: the NBA game is much, much more athletic. In Europe, an alley oop is considered pretty rare, and just one can really cause a major momentum change, since the crowd usually goes nuts. In the NBA it's pretty common to see 3-4 alley oops per game. Watch Team USA, for example: every 3rd basket of theirs is a dunk. They're way too fast to keep up with, so they score a lot of fast break points. The Europeans just aren't as athletic, so set plays have become key in the Euro leagues.

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    Ah, I see.

    Although, I don't buy the athletic thing when it comes to Arroyo. I mean, since when is athleticism all that important in a point guard? Jose Calderon, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Steve Nash are some of the most effective and yet least athletic players in the NBA. A point guard doesn't need to rely on athleticism, they simply rely on quickness and skillz.
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    Arroyo's athleticism isn't the point here, though. The point is that the entire NBA game revolves around athleticism, while the European game doesn't. Arroyo flourishes in the less athletic game, it seems.
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    Oh, I see where you're coming from, now. Actually, that reminds me of Jasikevicius. I saw him in the USA - Lithuania game last night. I remembered him being mentioned as the best European not in the NBA...and then, he came over and floundered.
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    Saras is another great example, nice find. Some players are talented in certain aspects, allowing them to excel in Europe/NBA but aren't a good fit the other way around. Others, like Anthony Parker, can do extremely well both ways.
     

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