Maggette to the Warriors

Question: If you say baguette (a kind of French bread), it's pronounced "bagg-ett" instead of "bagg-ett-ee".

So how come Maggette isn't pronounced like maggot (as in fly larvae).

Nevermind, Magg-et-tee is an awesome power guard.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 10 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Question: If you say baguette, it's pronounced "bagg-ett" instead of "bagg-ett-ee".

So how come Maggette isn't pronounced like magot.</div>

Because he isn't French like baguettes, so his name doesn't deserve to be pronounced like that.

Great signing for the Warriors.

Warriors fans, does this signing help ease the disappointment a bit since Baron bolted?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Jul 10 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 10 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Question: If you say baguette, it's pronounced "bagg-ett" instead of "bagg-ett-ee".

So how come Maggette isn't pronounced like magot.</div>

Because he isn't French like baguettes, so his name doesn't deserve to be pronounced like that.

Great signing for the Warriors.

Warriors fans, does this signing help ease the disappointment a bit since Baron bolted?
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I wasn't disappointed at all. Baron was gone next year anyway. His early departure just means we get a 1-year head start to develop the young core. The only thing lame about Baron leaving was that he didn't have the respect to A) tell the front office BEFORE the draft, so they could try to make a draft-day move for a PG and B) to do it in person (he just had his agent fax in his "resignation"). That's all on Baron, though. He was good while he was here but I practically jumped for joy when I found out we'd gotten rid of his 17+ millions!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 9 2008, 11:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lavalamp @ Jul 9 2008, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>lol that would be pretty cool. However it would be pretty hard to get enough air on a front flip to do it, especially to do it at the end when he would be pretty much landing. If Dwight could do a front flip he might be able to pull it off.</div>

A 7 footer weighing 265 pounds in a forward flip would be amazing. It'd be like Shaq winning the Kentucky Derby as a jockey.

I bet nobody can do it unless they have a trampoline. Now that I think about it... there needs to be more Vince Carters and Jrich's to come up with a dunk that's of the top 5 best ever dunks variety. Some of the best dunks I've seen weren't even by pros. I saw this one guy do do a 360 twice before dunking. It's a 720 dunk, but that name is misleading because you can also spin along the end over end instead of horizontal. I think a cool dunk would be to pass the ball once under each leg back and forth after catching it off the backboard. Jrich already claimed he can do the off the backboard underneath the leg as he's attempting the 360 dunk. I can believe that part. That would have been sick if he could pulled that off because Fred Jones' winning dunk was so boring. I'll give Dwight Howard props for his props and the fact he is one of the best leapers for a guy that large. Up until then, no guy above 6'8 would ever have a chance at winning a dunk title. Which is why I proposed weight classes for dunk contests.
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Yea you're right about the fact big men have a harder time. I would like a different change thouhg, I think the dunk contest would be better if there were like 8 dunkers and there are only two rounds, and first round 4 are eliminated, second round the other 3 are eliminated.

It seems that guys can`t think of 3 really good dunks. So this way with 8 guys you get to see them try to show 8 really nice dunks to get past the first round. Then there other nice dunk to win it. As well they need to make the prize money like 300 grand, get people trying to win.

There have been two other guys above 6 foot 8 who have won.
Larry Nance won the first one and he is 6'10.
Josh Smith is 6'9, but he isn't really a big man I guess. Same thing for Lebron if he ever entered.
Well Amare had a pretty decent shot at it and he would be considered a big (although Nash was a secret weapon).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Run BJM @ Jul 11 2008, 02:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Theres a bunch of new Corey Maggette stuff on Warriors.com now. Interviews and his press conference, pictures, etc.

http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/warriors_...y_maggette.html

I guess this guy really is a fitness freak? When he got to Oakland he was so excited to use the facility that he borrowed some shorts and Matt Barnes' shoes and worked out until 10 at night. Seems like a really good guy, smart guy, sounds excited to be here and believes in the franchise.</div>

He also believes in 50mil over 5 years

 

I think that we should move Jackson down to the 2 guard and move Maggs up as the small forward. He is stronger and slower than Jackson, which would make it easier on him to guard small forwards rather than shooting guards. Ellis at the point may be a risky experiment, but at least it would give him a shot to guard his own size people since we don't have Baron to bail him out anymore for that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Legacy @ Jul 11 2008, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think that we should move Jackson down to the 2 guard and move Maggs up as the small forward. He is stronger and slower than Jackson, which would make it easier on him to guard small forwards rather than shooting guards. Ellis at the point may be a risky experiment, but at least it would give him a shot to guard his own size people since we don't have Baron to bail him out anymore for that.</div>

I think that is what Don Nelson is going to do.

My friend down here in Long Beach said that the Maggette signing is not so good. But I will remain optimistic. That is the only way to go in order to be a Warriors fan.

I seriously think he will fit well here. I am just hoping he remains healthy and on the court instead of the injury list. But yeah this guy is buff and strong, no doubt. He's one tough looking guy and with the way he gets to the line he is probably one really tough guy too. Maybe he's happy to play for Don Nelson.

 

I think fans will think differently once they see him in action for a while. If we had home-grown and drafted Mags, the naysayers would think differently about him. He can be a stud basketball player and a fan favorite.

The clips fans were at least excited enough about Mags to have all-star discussions about him at one time and they were probably right to feel that way. Mags does have the absolute ability to just explode from everywhere and he's statistically up there with many good to great players who dominate one-on-one. The issue with him has always been staying healthy regularly and his lack of defense (attributed to slow lateral quicks) which is like a Jrich problem as well. He's also an open court ball player which limits his appeal and underrates his overall game much like we saw with guys like Shawn Marion before Steve Nash (a more than decent scorer and guy who could slash), a discarded Gerald Wallace to the Bobcats (a decent scorer), and other mega athletes who prefer to run rather than it slow it down. Maybe the difference is on the defensive end, but Mags has all the tools to do a decent job (at small forward) defensively, and be a better offensive player than most pure athletes who don't have much shot range or the type of mechanics to make superstar plays (e.g. fadeaways, crossover stepback moves, post-up turnaround jumper, inside scoring drives, 360 spin moves, crossover pullup jumpshot, anything out of Kobe's playbook that can lose defenders). Maggette is nifty enough to just get fouled because he can do a variety of a lot of things to fool defenders into making bad decisions.

So going back to this defense thing: As a matter of opinion, I think Mags defense should be fine on this team if we felt Jrich was decent enough and we were only one player away from being a playoff lock. Besides, how many 20ppg scorers play defense and how many inside/outside 20 ppg shooting at least 45% career average swingmen are there? Very few, and the defensive guys who score 20 are mostly called "elite big men" of the Duncan, Garnett, Dwight Howard, young Shaq type. Your average swing that scores 18 or more a game plays very little to no defense, and only guys like Kobe Bryant and Paul Pierce are known for explosive scoring and 1st or 2nd team rate defense. See Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Lebron James, Melo, Rashard Lewis, Peja, Antwan Jamison and on and on just don't have the defensive ability or defensive consistency at SG or SF. To find that level of scoring statistics you'd have to settle for non-stars or guys that aren't really offensively that super great on their own (see Gerald Wallace, AK47, Caron Butler, Andre Iguodala, Ron Artest, Shaw Marion) and then the guys that come after that like (Raja Bell, Bruce Bowen, Tayshaun Prince).

What did we expect to get if we couldn't get Brand and we didn't want to risk coming up with another losing offseason if we fail to secure the next max paid player? Guys are overpaying Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, Michael Redd, and there's probably a reason why. Those guys probably want to go to some other teams, but in the end, money talks and if a player is really keen on going to a particular team, you'd have to grossly overpay somebody just to have them play instead for you. Surely that goes against the principle of trying to pay somebody at the should've-been market rate and for somebody that genuinely wants to play for your team and won't complain about ring or being underpaid by a million when they're making 13 mil a year. Plus, teams like Atlanta, Orlando, Bucks still have to rely on top drafts which either hit or miss or aren't bringing them instant impact. They're really have to hope on guys like Bogut, Al Horford, Dwight Howard to turn things around instantly. This year's draft, I thought, didn't have anybody that was even as good as those 3 big players which are supposed to carry 20 ppg inside and bring the defense.

This anger about Mags and wanting to wait out for a real max paid salary hog player is just a bad gamble sometimes. Otherwise, if we're losing, we end up paying for some guy who ends up wanting to leave later because he doesn't like the team here, we can't make flexible moves around that type of salary, and he wants a ring. If a player gets the max, that player should ideally shut up and honor the contract he's playing for. He should play it out and not want to give up and go to somebody more established. But that never happens because players complain quite a bit as much as we fans do. So honestly, I think the best scenario is we try to be winners now, we develop our youth, and we get guys who care and are good enough to show the young rooks how to play while contributing to the team at the same time. I think it's important that we have an unselfish team like the Spurs with guys like Manu or Duncan who don't mind coming off the bench. With Mags I see that potential and he's not a primadonna or that much of a salary hog. Who were we going to hold out for that wouldn't end up pulling an Elton Brand where he didn't want to come here.

I think Mags has a lot to prove and has a desire to prove something with his new team. I think he will silence the naysayers about his offensive effectiveness and his supposed lack of defense (remember some guys thought Joe Johnson and Ray Allen didn't play defense, but they can. I think the same with Michael Redd and many other scorers - even VC and T-mac can play it). Mags was brought in to support the young nucleus, to give Monta some easy assists, and I think Mags will do fine in that role because the team is now belonging to Jax, Monta, and Biedrins and maybe Wright later on. That's a very decent core and will get better if we have developed our own superstars.

The draft is a gamble within itself. We don't have to tank to find franchise players in a draft which might not contain the franchise players we're looking for, we have to pick well in positions that can help our team because a lot of times the best player in the draft doesn't end up being the best in 5 years. Guys like Monta, Arenas, Boozer, Rashard Lewis, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, Michael Jordan, Amare Stoudamire were never picked in the top 5. Some of those superstars or star players weren't even first rounders. We can't tank and make it so the franchise is even more undesirable/unstable to work for than before. It's got to have strong mentors, and strong rookie prospects and I think that is exactly what Mullin is looking for. If he wants to hire great coaches, he has to have a decent team first. Then he's also has to have good veteran presence, depth, chemistry to shape the young guys in how to be true nba professionals. The warriors also ought to have first rate lead-by-example players who know the game and have the ability to produce like Sjax or a Jrich. And that's always been the biggest gripe about totally relying totally on the draft to build the franchise. It's because we don't the other problem areas in the franchise like team depth, chemistry, or field experience. Unless you find somebody 90% nba ready in mind and body, that team is going to be a developing team with guys trying to figure things out on their own and what their roles or niche is, and that doesn't win games if the whole team is like that.

I'm glad Mully and staff is taking this whole character + ability into consideration. I would want even the guys with questionable attitudes (e.g. Marbury, Ricky Davis, an in-shape Bonzi Wells) but that could potentially destroy some impressionable youngsters. I'm really glad Mullin is looking for character types that are but aren't Fisher, Foyle and all these other washed up guys we had to trade for. Mags was a player that I wanted all along and his salary could match up with somebody we might want later on. Mags is super buff like Fisher, but can play more than one dimension. Turiaf brings the energy of Foyle, but is a smarter basketball player with a lot more dimensions other than blocked shots.

This backup plan for losing Baron, failing to acquire Brand is looking decent. That's scary because I'm usually the negative guy when it comes to including a Jrich type of guy into a shooting guard role or Baron's 1 vs. 5 tactics in the leadership role. Because even when we were winning with Baron Davis, how far could we really go with Baron minus Jrich and no improved bench depth or size? How long could we really gamble on a center piece like Baron and to go small all the time? I'd rather try out Monta and build out the rest of our team so we can find other shot selections coming from other positions. Plus, for those that argue this year's win season record was better than last year's Baron/Jrich team record, people obviously forgot that the trade for Harrington/Sjax didn't come until all-star break. Baron, Jrich, Sjax, Harrington, Biedrins was not an opening day roster, it was something like Baron, Jrich, Pietrus, Dunleavy, Murphy which didn't even include our best defensive big man Andris Biedrins. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. If that was the roster, that totally f'n sucks and would only result in trading baskets at best. They weren't even good at the foul line or avoiding settling for 3's... At least with Mags he will try to get inside and I believe he's a legit 6'6 with long arms. Jrich is not really 6'6" although wingspan size you'd never know because his arms allow him to play taller.

 

Well, I have had hesitations about the 50 mils over 5 years -- only because I was hoping we would save the cap space until a slam-dunk deal for a star player arrived. I would have rather waited until 09/10 and just throwing the bank at Nash/Marion/Wade/LeBron etc.

I was a little bitter that we didn't get a player of Brand's caliber. But, the signings are done, and Maggette is a very good player. I really enjoyed watching those interviews -- thanks Run. He seems like a great guy. And I already know his game from having watched him bruise the Warriors for the last 8 years. We all know what he can do.

For a guy that is so ripped and into fitness/nutrition, though, I'm surprised that he has so many missed games over the years. Does he train TOO hard?

I would have rather signed him for 5 years 35-40 mils, but I'm sure most teams would've loved that, too. In the end, we still got a 20pt scorer, who can rebound, for about the same price as the last year of Foyle's contract! So that's not too bad.

Now we need to sign a vet PG to back up/mentor Monta...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlleyOop @ Jul 12 2008, 06:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well, I have had hesitations about the 50 mils over 5 years -- only because I was hoping we would save the cap space until a slam-dunk deal for a star player arrived. I would have rather waited until 09/10 and just throwing the bank at Nash/Marion/Wade/LeBron etc.

I was a little bitter that we didn't get a player of Brand's caliber. But, the signings are done, and Maggette is a very good player. I really enjoyed watching those interviews -- thanks Run. He seems like a great guy. And I already know his game from having watched him bruise the Warriors for the last 8 years. We all know what he can do.

For a guy that is so ripped and into fitness/nutrition, though, I'm surprised that he has so many missed games over the years. Does he train TOO hard?

I would have rather signed him for 5 years 35-40 mils, but I'm sure most teams would've loved that, too. In the end, we still got a 20pt scorer, who can rebound, for about the same price as the last year of Foyle's contract! So that's not too bad.

Now we need to sign a vet PG to back up/mentor Monta...</div>
I think Nash would be on the downside of his career for open court offense, but I think he's good enough to play any type of offense. We'd still have to hide him a lot on defense since he'd be getting up in years and he's not as quick as he used to be. Guys with outstanding height, shooting, passing, and ballhandling don't die so easily. I've seen Fisher play D despite being so slow, but I think Nash is worse. I'm not sure a backcourt of Ellis/Nash would get things done.

I wouldn't mind Wade, but you can't gamble on one person coming here and then having to worry about trying to support your rookies and also re-signing those rookies (which causes the cap to disappear even more). Lately, he hasn't been the same player as in his championship form.

Lebron... I doubt Lebron would ever be a Warrior. We could offer him the max amount and I still bet he'd go somewhere else because his agents or whatever third parties might have this influence to steer him somewhere else. Let's just say with our ownership, our basketball market hasn't been what it used to be. No more Run TMC collector's cups at KFC's.

Marion - wouldn't mind him, but seriously, you can't win with just him. He doesn't makes other better, despite his tremendous defensive ability. I think he's got less offensive repertoire than Mags. Mags being top 3 overall in free throw attempts per game says a lot about how unstoppable he can be (he's almost on par with Kobe or Lebron ft attempts and Mags isn't even considered that great of a player as in no easy "superstar" calls). Marion is nice, but we need superstar like offense or all five guys to play tough defense. I don't think Ellis is a lock for that yet and Biedrins is too light to defend the interior other than shotblocks and reaches.

I think the 50 mils over 5 years is no problem if Mullin can pull the Dun/Murph deal out at any time to get a player we really want a lot more and make salaries match. That's also assuming Maggette doesn't suffer any career ending type of problems which force the Warriors into honoring guaranteed salary and then not being able to get anything back for him. I'm sure the problem with Mags is he gets banged up too much because of how many free throw attempts he gets per game. I'm sure Dwade and Kevin Martin get physically punished that way too and maybe it's why Baron takes so many damned 3's despite being capable of going to the hole anytime he wants.

I hope our backup point is Carlos Arroyo. I think fans would like him. He adds a little flair to the game and has proven to be in-between a scorer and a pure point. If we got Ben Gordon I'd be happy, although I want Hinrich more despite the contract.

 

Ben Gordon is far from a PG.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlleyOop @ Jul 10 2008, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kobimel @ Jul 10 2008, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 10 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Question: If you say baguette, it's pronounced "bagg-ett" instead of "bagg-ett-ee".

So how come Maggette isn't pronounced like magot.</div>

Because he isn't French like baguettes, so his name doesn't deserve to be pronounced like that.

Great signing for the Warriors.

Warriors fans, does this signing help ease the disappointment a bit since Baron bolted?
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I wasn't disappointed at all. Baron was gone next year anyway. His early departure just means we get a 1-year head start to develop the young core. The only thing lame about Baron leaving was that he didn't have the respect to A) tell the front office BEFORE the draft, so they could try to make a draft-day move for a PG and B) to do it in person (he just had his agent fax in his "resignation"). That's all on Baron, though. He was good while he was here but I practically jumped for joy when I found out we'd gotten rid of his 17+ millions!
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Typing that didn't make you feel better.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Custodianrules2 @ Jul 12 2008, 06:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think Nash would be on the downside of his career for open court offense, but I think he's good enough to play any type of offense. We'd still have to hide him a lot on defense since he'd be getting up in years and he's not as quick as he used to be. Guys with outstanding height, shooting, passing, and ballhandling don't die so easily. I've seen Fisher play D despite being so slow, but I think Nash is worse. I'm not sure a backcourt of Ellis/Nash would get things done.</div>

I think getting Nash would be great because, as you say, he is on the "downside of his career," and won't command a huge contract, most likely. Yet, his game isn't about athleticism (although he keeps himself in elite shape and will until the end of his career). His game is about understanding the floor, and that would be awesome to have him running the point with Randolph, Beans, Wright, Hendrix, Belly all developing. Especially Wright and Randolph -- those two would grow up QUICK with a PG like Nash (see Stoudamire). At times, Nash would have 4 legitimate alley-oop targets on the floor (Monta, Randolph, Wright, and either Mags or Beans).

You've got a point about defense, though. Nash/Ellis would have it's problems. But he'd be such a great mentor to the young players, and at the IDEAL position to do so -- the floor general. And he's a perfect leader in every respect.

Maybe they could play zone?