<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">I have alot of respect for Kidd but AMS_ice is starting to piss me off.</div> Starting? No hard feelings man
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">That's right! The FINALS! And not the second round. Kidd Could only give them 2 EAST titles... Unlike the almighty Carter... He carried the team to a 2nd rd. 4-1 loss to the Heat!</div> The east was very weak when that happened, the second best team was a young Indiana with reggie. With the team they have now they could have easily gotten to the finals both times. Vince has done alot for new jersey, and so has kidd. He carried a team to the gutter to a elite team, just like kidd. To sit here and criticize him is ludacris, what would u all be saying right now if vince was on another team and not New jersey. ill tell you what you would be saying we need someone to help us make the playoffs. One player can only carry a team so far. No team has single handedly brought a team a title not shaq not mj not anyone, this topic should be locked over all this dumb stuff that is being said, because I dont see kidd saying take less shots vince ,pass the ball more ,let me run the team, etc.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting fitch4delk00:</div><div class="quote_post">The east was very weak when that happened, the second best team was a young Indiana with reggie. With the team they have now they could have easily gotten to the finals both times. Vince has done alot for new jersey, and so has kidd. He carried a team to the gutter to a elite team, just like kidd. To sit here and criticize him is ludacris, what would u all be saying right now if vince was on another team and not New jersey. ill tell you what you would be saying we need someone to help us make the playoffs. One player can only carry a team so far. No team has single handedly brought a team a title not shaq not mj not anyone, this topic should be locked over all this dumb stuff that is being said, because I dont see kidd saying take less shots vince ,pass the ball more ,let me run the team, etc.</div> Jason Kidd has done a lot for New Jersey. 2 straight East titles. Maybe the east was weak, maybe it wasn't. But the fact is, Kidd's arrival had made an immediate impact for New Jersey. 2 seasons on top... without Carter. Kidd has gone through surgery and Jefferson got hurt as well... along with Martin's exit what can you expect from the Nets? Carter came into a situation where the only thing he can do is help with the line up they had. It would have been a different story if Kidd and Jefferson were healthy. True, Kidd won't say that to Vince, it's not in his character, Jason will do his talking on the court.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd has done a lot for New Jersey. 2 straight East titles. Maybe the east was weak, maybe it wasn't. But the fact is, Kidd's arrival had made an immediate impact for New Jersey. 2 seasons on top... without Carter. Kidd has gone through surgery and Jefferson got hurt as well... along with Martin's exit what can you expect from the Nets? Carter came into a situation where the only thing he can do is help with the line up they had. It would have been a different story if Kidd and Jefferson were healthy. True, Kidd won't say that to Vince, it's not in his character, Jason will do his talking on the court.</div> so ur saying the nets would be a elite team without carter.?
I think what some of you guys saying "when Kidd was in control" are neglecting is that first of all Kidd is a lot older now than he was before, and secondly the East is a lot better now than it was then. Kidd though still making defensive teams is definately not as good as he was before. Kidd wasn't able to get past the Semi's when he was on Phoenix in the West, remember that. He got past the first round once in 4 years and lost 4-1 when he did. He had good team, they lost in the first round in years when they won 56 and 53 games. The losses weren't close either, the most they ever won was one game. I'm not really sure what some of the complaints are though. Kidd has never been a guy to carry an offense with his scoring ability, he isn't a scorer, I'm pretty sure we all know that. When he was the leading scorer, the Nets were not winning on offensive efficiency, but on defense, and using the break. He carries teams with his playmaking, not his scoring. What needs to happen is not for Kidd to start running the show (which I'm not sure what is meant by this, he's still by far the primary playmaker), but for the Nets to go to their players strengths more, and to have a much less stagnant halfcourt offense. Run Vince out of the post, not this perimeter stuff, keep using Jefferson the same way, run a lot more things off the ball and with movement instead of just iso's. They also need some better shot blocking help defense from the bigs on the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Jason Kidd has done a lot for New Jersey. 2 straight East titles. Maybe the east was weak, maybe it wasn't. But the fact is, Kidd's arrival had made an immediate impact for New Jersey. 2 seasons on top... without Carter. Kidd has gone through surgery and Jefferson got hurt as well... along with Martin's exit what can you expect from the Nets? Carter came into a situation where the only thing he can do is help with the line up they had. It would have been a different story if Kidd and Jefferson were healthy. True, Kidd won't say that to Vince, it's not in his character, Jason will do his talking on the court.</div> This is not questionable, it's a fact. The Nets were the best team in the East in 01-02, and won 52 games. Detroit and Miami matched or beat that this season. In 02-03 they were the second best team and won 49 games, 4 teams in the East this season matched or beat that. If Kidd and Jefferson were healthy, this team is still far from an elite team. I'm sorry, but Kidd and Jefferson does not win you 49 games, it does not even get you past the Pacers in the first round. Both guys are nice, but a team with those two + Krstic, and no depth is a bad offensive team, and the can't make up for it defensively. Who would start at shooting guard, Eric Williams?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">That's right! The FINALS! And not the second round. Kidd Could only give them 2 EAST titles... Unlike the almighty Carter... He carried the team to a 2nd rd. 4-1 loss to the Heat!</div> The way you're putting, it seems like you're more on Kidd's jock and a Carter hater. You're a Nets fan and you should realize that winning the East in '02, '03 isn't near as difficult as it is today. So you're saying that Carter carried them to a loss to the Heat in the 2nd round? Ok that's fair, but they lost to the champs. You can't really expect a team with no bench at all to beat the best team in the NBA in a series, unless you expected that. Then you're way to optimistic and living in a dream world.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AMS_ice:</div><div class="quote_post">That's right! The FINALS! And not the second round. Kidd Could only give them 2 EAST titles... Unlike the almighty Carter... He carried the team to a 2nd rd. 4-1 loss to the Heat!</div> i forgot kidd had to try to get past shaq in his two trips to the finals
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting P.A.P.:</div><div class="quote_post">The way you're putting, it seems like you're more on Kidd's jock and a Carter hater. You're a Nets fan and you should realize that winning the East in '02, '03 isn't near as difficult as it is today. So you're saying that Carter carried them to a loss to the Heat in the 2nd round? Ok that's fair, but they lost to the champs. You can't really expect a team with no bench at all to beat the best team in the NBA in a series, unless you expected that. Then you're way to optimistic and living in a dream world.</div> Again... like I said, it's more frustraded than it is hate. The Miami series was a big dissappointment. The Nets could have gotten it closer than 4-1. Carter is just forcing things way too much. In their only win of the series, they had a balance attack. Carter, 27pts., Kidd, 22 pts., Jefferson, 20 pts., and Krstic had 11. Carter is not the only one who can score. When Kidd controls the flow of the offense, the Nets have balance. Game 1 had Kidd taking 17 shots, Carter 15 and Jefferson 11. In the series, Carter Averaged 22.6 attempts per game, Kidd, 13.4 and Jefferson, 15. In game 5, the Nets had a chance as they had balance scoring from the three. The Miami series could have been closer and the Nets did have a chance. If you don't remember, Pat Riley said that when they got through the Nets, that he then thought that Miami could go all the way, meaning he saw New Jersey as a threat.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">Carters the star player. </div> Actually AMS_ice is correct. Kidd is the star player. Not Carter. Kidd is the franchise face, the one thats been there in the hard times and the good. He was the one that carried them. Thats like saying if Kobe went to the Spurs then it wouldn't be Tim Duncans Spurs anymore but Kobe's spurs. Under all AMS' hate on Carter and obvious bias he has some points. When the Nets have balance and run the offense through Kidd they are an incredible threat. When Carter "tries" to take over with his jump shooting then it goes all out of wack. Also like Chuck said. Keep him.
