<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'>Manning is great not because of him alone, but because of who is around him too. How do you guys think Manning would have done if he had Caldwell and Gaffney instead of Harrison and Wayne? The obvious answer would be "not as well" because Wayne and Harrison are elite receivers that have a ton of chemistry with Manning. Brady threw for 4,110 yards in 2005 when he had Branch and Givens. I know that Manning's passing yards blow Brady's out of the water but you also need to realize that Harrison and Manning have been playing together since Manning came into the league. Wayne has been there since 2001 so he has been with Manning a long time too. Anyway, my point is that Manning gets to keep his receivers for a very long time and Brady has different receivers almost every season so it is really like comparing apples to oranges. Brady was getting close to Manning in 2005 when he had some significant time with Branch and Givens. Brady in '05 - 4,110 yards Manning in '05 - 3,747 yards Oops, Brady had more yards than Manning in '05.</div> And the Colts still beat them TWICE. Oops.</div> And the Colts and Pats both beat up on the Dolphins. Oops.</div> Why do you hate reality? The Dolphins split with the Patriots with the second game going to the Dolphins 21-0. That right. The Dolphins kicked the Patriots sorry butts in a game that the Patriots needed to win.
Let it go, man. BF1's dying breath will contain the words "Favre's a cheater." I've long since given up on trying to get him to drop it. I just laugh at it now... It's the eternally running joke of the NFL Forums.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Cheating makes him a cheater.</div> Sliding to avoid a hit is not *cheating*. In order for some action to be considered cheating, there has to be some *rule* that he violated.</div> Conspiring beforehand to make sure a player reaches statistical plateau is cheating. FYI - that is probably the onbly time farve had a naked bootleg to in the 4th quarter with a lead taht farve could have just taken a knee and won the game instead. Coincidence? NO Cheating? YES</div> Show me where there was a *conspiracy beforehand* and I will completely be in agreement that his actions were unsportsmanlike, but cheating is still not the issue here. I could say that Neil O'Donnell was cheating when he threw an interception to a wide open Larry Brown in the Superbowl (MVP), but that would be wrong as well.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>I like Brett Favre, but it's awful shady to be running a naked boot with an aging QB in the last regular season game when your headed for the playoffs. So, while I disagree with BF1 on a number of issues, THIS is NOT an unfounded argument.</div> He ran the same play earlier in the game... How can you honestly believe that he gave him the sack, that's ridiculous. It started out as a running play and there was miscommunication when Favre changed it to a boot leg, that's why Strahan got in unblocked and that's why Favre slid to avoid the hit.</div> Even though miscommunication occurs on a weekly basis in the NFL, this one mounted on a plaque simply because it coincidently resulted in a sack that put Strahan over the top in sacks that season. Bottom line, no one can prove it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pack Attack)</div><div class='quotemain'>Let it go, man. BF1's dying breath will contain the words "Favre's a cheater." I've long since given up on trying to get him to drop it. I just laugh at it now... It's the eternally running joke of the NFL Forums.</div> Well how the hell do u have a debate with someone who anytime Favre comes up he discredits anything to do with him b/c he's a "cheater"? I mean wth? 1st Marino is discredited b/c he doesn't have a Super Bowl ring, so then I say well what about Bradshaw and Montana, then their 2nd 3rd and 4th Super Bowl rings are discredited b/c only the 1st one matter, then I show Favre's complete superiority to Manning in the post season and he's discredited for being a "cheater" it makes no f'ing sence...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>I like Brett Favre, but it's awful shady to be running a naked boot with an aging QB in the last regular season game when your headed for the playoffs. So, while I disagree with BF1 on a number of issues, THIS is NOT an unfounded argument.</div> He ran the same play earlier in the game... How can you honestly believe that he gave him the sack, that's ridiculous. It started out as a running play and there was miscommunication when Favre changed it to a boot leg, that's why Strahan got in unblocked and that's why Favre slid to avoid the hit.</div> I'm not saying that with absolute certainty that Favre laid down for Strahan. I didn't overhear any conversations or have absolute evidence. I'm saying that Favre running a naked boot that late in the game with nothing to gain to Strahan's side is shady. I don't see how anyone could look at that play and say that it doesn't look like Favre took a dive to give his buddy, Strahan, the sack record. I can't say that O'Donnell threw that Super Bowl away either, but that's one of the few times that I really thought that player probably did throw a game. ROTR, are we using the term cheating incorrectly? According to Merrium-Webster, one part of the definition is "to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice" If Favre and Strahan colluded to give Strahan the sack record then then have influenced the record through deceit.
By the way, BF1 isn't the only person who thinks the Favre-Strahan sack was cooked up. The only thing more transparent than the gambit itself was the prologue, in which Favre and Strahan and even Green Bay coach Mike Sherman (why would he allow his quarterback to audible to a pass play with a nine-point lead and less than three minutes remaining), feigned innocence. http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1307310.html Edit - I should add that, while I do think that Favre should be ashamed if he colluded with Strahan, I don't think that that one play invalidates Favre as one of the greatest QBs of all time. I also don't agree that winning on not winning Super Bowls validates or invalidates QBs from the discussion of greatest QBS. Football is still a team game and this discussion is extremely subjective. I do think that Peyton deserves to be in this discussion.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs05/co...hael&id=2320683 Yeah and after last years superbowl there were ppl saying the refs conspired against the seahawks. Sports writers will write w/e ppl want to hear. Conspiracies are popular, doesn't make them true... <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Well, the Steelers can call it even now, as the officials who performed well enough throughout the season to earn the privilege of working Super Bowl XL performed Sunday as though they were trying to make it up to the Steelers by giving them the game</div>
To run out the clock they still needed to get positive yards, maybe Favre figured he could catch them off guard, as he did earlier in the game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>ROTR, are we using the term cheating incorrectly? According to Merrium-Webster, one part of the definition is "to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice" If Favre and Strahan colluded to give Strahan the sack record then then have influenced the record through deceit.</div> That is only part of the definition. It also includes "for one's own personal gain", which you guys have not proven. Ex, BF1's assertion that there was collusion before the game even started.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'>ROTR, are we using the term cheating incorrectly? According to Merrium-Webster, one part of the definition is "to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice" If Favre and Strahan colluded to give Strahan the sack record then then have influenced the record through deceit.</div> That is only part of the definition. It also includes "for one's own personal gain", which you guys have not proven. Ex, BF1's assertion that there was collusion before the game even started.</div> There is enough evidence to warrant an investigation. NFL didnt do that, and i can only assume it is because of another farve deal
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>To run out the clock they still needed to get positive yards, maybe Favre figured he could catch them off guard, as he did earlier in the game.</div> Once you've caught a defense off guard with a naked boot once, I would think it would make less sense to try it again. Another naked boot seems like a good way to get the ball stripped or your qB injured or both. Personal gain is easy. Strahan and Favre are buddies. Buddies do favors for one another.
it was an audible, that Favre called, he probably noticed everyone stacking up to the middle and figured he could get them caught inside. Even if it was a bad call, since when is that cheating? As for BF1, your assertion that there was enough evidence to warrant an investigation is wrong, there was no evidence, which does not warrant an investigation. Everytime a record gets broke there isn't an investigation, and that's all that happened.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Packersfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>it was an audible, that Favre called, he probably noticed everyone stacking up to the middle and figured he could get them caught inside. Even if it was a bad call, since when is that cheating? As for BF1, your assertion that there was enough evidence to warrant an investigation is wrong, there was no evidence, which does not warrant an investigation. Everytime a record gets broke there isn't an investigation, and that's all that happened.</div> I am sure while they were putting together the game plan, and were putting in the kill the clock package, they decided best thing to do would be to have an audible of a naked bootleg to the pro bowl DE side. Obviously your bias prevents you from seeing the truth. Doesnt really matter, i have already proven manning was vastly superior to farve even if i do pretend he didnt cheat
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'> And the Colts still beat them TWICE. Oops.</div> And the Colts and Pats both beat up on the Dolphins. Oops.</div> Why do you hate reality? The Dolphins split with the Patriots with the second game going to the Dolphins 21-0. That right. The Dolphins kicked the Patriots sorry butts in a game that the Patriots needed to win.</div> Why do YOU hate reality? Since 2001: Patriots - 7 Dolphins - 5 2001 Patriots 11-5 and a Super Bowl win 2001 Dolphins 11-5 and a playoff loss 2002 Patriots 9-7 and no playoffs 2002 Dolphins 9-7 and no playoffs 2003 Patriots 14-2 and a Super Bowl win 2003 Dolphins 10-6 and no playoffs 2004 Patriots 14-2 and a Super Bowl win 2004 Dolphins 4-12 and no playoffs 2005 Patriots 10-6 and a playoff win and a playoff loss 2005 Dolphins 9-7 and no playoffs 2006 Patriots 12-4 and two playoff wins and a playoff loss 2006 Dolphins 6-10 and no playoffs Call me crazy but I don't see a playoff win in there for the Dolphins. In fact, the last playoff game they won was in 2000. They have been going through coaches and QBs like a fat man goes through chocolate cake for the better part of a decade, yet here you are bashing the Pats any chance you get. You have absolutely ZERO room to talk and yet you keep going and going. Its like you're in a Geo Metro and you're telling a guy in a Corvette that his car sucks and it won't beat a Viper. While you may be right, you have no place saying anything in the first place because you're in a piece of shit Geo Metro. Have fun getting high draft picks every year. I guess that is all you have to be excited about.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'>And the Colts and Pats both beat up on the Dolphins. Oops.</div> Why do you hate reality? The Dolphins split with the Patriots with the second game going to the Dolphins 21-0. That right. The Dolphins kicked the Patriots sorry butts in a game that the Patriots needed to win.</div> Why do YOU hate reality? Since 2001: Patriots - 7 Dolphins - 5 2001 Patriots 11-5 and a Super Bowl win 2001 Dolphins 11-5 and a playoff loss 2002 Patriots 9-7 and no playoffs 2002 Dolphins 9-7 and no playoffs 2003 Patriots 14-2 and a Super Bowl win 2003 Dolphins 10-6 and no playoffs 2004 Patriots 14-2 and a Super Bowl win 2004 Dolphins 4-12 and no playoffs 2005 Patriots 10-6 and a playoff win and a playoff loss 2005 Dolphins 9-7 and no playoffs 2006 Patriots 12-4 and two playoff wins and a playoff loss 2006 Dolphins 6-10 and no playoffs Call me crazy but I don't see a playoff win in there for the Dolphins. In fact, the last playoff game they won was in 2000. They have been going through coaches and QBs like a fat man goes through chocolate cake for the better part of a decade, yet here you are bashing the Pats any chance you get. You have absolutely ZERO room to talk and yet you keep going and going. Its like you're in a Geo Metro and you're telling a guy in a Corvette that his car sucks and it won't beat a Viper. While you may be right, you have no place saying anything in the first place because you're in a piece of shit Geo Metro. Have fun getting high draft picks every year. I guess that is all you have to be excited about.</div> Well, at least you have finally admitted that you think that football history started in 2001 when Bill Belichick invented football. The Dolphins are 120 games over .500 all time. How many games are the Patriots over .500 all-time? Who leads the Dolphins-Patriots series all-time? (I don't expect you to anser these questions since they don't benefit your position.) Keep spinning and slanting everything to benefit the Patriots. The truth is that until 2001 the Patriots hadn't done crap. I can live with a few off years for the Dolphins considering that they've been winners much more than losers.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pats_Fan420)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'> Why do you hate reality? The Dolphins split with the Patriots with the second game going to the Dolphins 21-0. That right. The Dolphins kicked the Patriots sorry butts in a game that the Patriots needed to win.</div> Why do YOU hate reality? Since 2001: Patriots - 7 Dolphins - 5 2001 Patriots 11-5 and a Super Bowl win 2001 Dolphins 11-5 and a playoff loss 2002 Patriots 9-7 and no playoffs 2002 Dolphins 9-7 and no playoffs 2003 Patriots 14-2 and a Super Bowl win 2003 Dolphins 10-6 and no playoffs 2004 Patriots 14-2 and a Super Bowl win 2004 Dolphins 4-12 and no playoffs 2005 Patriots 10-6 and a playoff win and a playoff loss 2005 Dolphins 9-7 and no playoffs 2006 Patriots 12-4 and two playoff wins and a playoff loss 2006 Dolphins 6-10 and no playoffs Call me crazy but I don't see a playoff win in there for the Dolphins. In fact, the last playoff game they won was in 2000. They have been going through coaches and QBs like a fat man goes through chocolate cake for the better part of a decade, yet here you are bashing the Pats any chance you get. You have absolutely ZERO room to talk and yet you keep going and going. Its like you're in a Geo Metro and you're telling a guy in a Corvette that his car sucks and it won't beat a Viper. While you may be right, you have no place saying anything in the first place because you're in a piece of shit Geo Metro. Have fun getting high draft picks every year. I guess that is all you have to be excited about.</div> Well, at least you have finally admitted that you think that football history started in 2001 when Bill Belichick invented football. The Dolphins are 120 games over .500 all time. How many games are the Patriots over .500 all-time? Who leads the Dolphins-Patriots series all-time? (I don't expect you to anser these questions since they don't benefit your position.) Keep spinning and slanting everything to benefit the Patriots. The truth is that until 2001 the Patriots hadn't done crap. I can live with a few off years for the Dolphins considering that they've been winners much more than losers.</div> Its funny cuz you knew he would choose a specific time range that proved his point. FYI 7-5 vs dolphins isnt exactly dominating.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>it was an audible, that Favre called</div> True. And Bubba Franks thought it was a running play. It was his job to block Strahan and he was run blocking instead of pass blocking. That's what made it a busted play. Regardless, I think Favre could have just as easily tossed the ball out of bounds.
FWIW, anyone who was watching that game has to question whether or not Favre 'gave' away the sack The whole game Favre was able to outrun Strahan and avoid him - except for on that last play when he ran at him then slid in front of him. For some reason I remember it well (certain members on this board don't let us forget). Does this mean that he's a cheater? I don't think so - if anything he helped Strahan cheat. I don't consider Strahan to be the single season sack record holder because of how that play went down in the context of the whole game. If you read the comments of players, most of them thought it was an odd play (including Strahan himself who said "I don't know why he didn't throw it" - obviously alluding to an earlier play when Favre threw the ball away). So Favre took a dive, Strahan shouldn't have gotten the sack record, and yet Favre is still a great QB. I don't see what the problem is?
