Dont forget the age difference too. Van Horn is getting up there in years in basketball terms. And has a history of injuries. i'd go with Powell. As for Mbenga, i highly doubt we are going to be able to re-sign him for the following reasons.1. He wants to play. he's not going to be getting minutes behind Diop and Dampier. Not as good as Diop and there is no way in hell that anyone would take Damp's huge contract. (well i can think of someone who likes overpaid big men, can anyone say Isiah Thomas?lol)2. He has too much talent. What i mean by this is that there arent alot of big talented big men in the league, and some team will have playing time and money to pay him. 3. We have a guy named Pavel Podkolzin that hasnt played but like 10 minutes in the league. We have to give this guy a chance. Hell, He's huge, 7-5. sorry, but you cant teach size. hopefully he can be a player next year.so my order of importance goes like this:1.Terry2.Griffin3.Powell4.Marshall5.Van Horn6.MbengaNote to importance thing, i'm just talking about frre agents on the team, not what the team actaully needs.
Yeah but he was horrible in both games and a reason why Dallas was down 2-0 to the rockets. The same could be said about Dirk though this last year but Van Horn has been bad all year this year. Sorry I won't defend someone that gets undeserved minutes when they are playing like crap. I am usually happy once Van Horn goes out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The defensive mistakes were by Van Horn at the end of the game to. This guy has done nothing for Dallas ever since he came here. The only time he got on a row was at the end of the season last year and than he disappeared in the playoffs.</div>Yes Van Horn allowed Tony Parker to go in for a unguarded layup. He got hurt in the playoffs, how did he disappear? This is becoming a joke.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Dont forget the age difference too. Van Horn is getting up there in years in basketball terms. And has a history of injuries. i'd go with Powell. As for Mbenga, i highly doubt we are going to be able to re-sign him for the following reasons.</div>The only reason Van Horn would be resigned is he would come cheap and provide a vet backup at the pf. Same goes for Benga, we can easily use bird rights on him and match any offer. Also, I can see Powell going if we draft a pf this year. But I agree with you on not signing Benga. Because we have three centers, four if you count when Dirk plays in limited minutes. Pavel fills the third string center who gets limited minutes all year.And I find it funny you say Van Horn's age and injuries should be something to look at, but you have Griffin there at 2. Griff is cheap but so is Van Horn with part of the MLE.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah but he was horrible in both games and a reason why Dallas was down 2-0 to the rockets.</div>This is why I don't respect your posts, you blame losses on players you don't like and give credit to players you like in wins.
Yeah ok man. I just remember Van Horn unable to exploit the matchup against Yao or Mutombo and being scared to shoot from outside. Game 2 is the one where Van Horn hurt us in the 4th quarter. You just come back at me like those mistakes weren't meaningful but they were.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>You just come back at me like those mistakes weren't meaningful but they were.</div>They are but one person doesn't lose a game. I'm pretty sure Van Horn didn't have the only turnovers/mistakes in the game. We win as a team, lose as team, learn that. I don't see you talking about Terry's key mistake when he let Nash hit a game tying three in game 6. Bottom line, you just don't like Van Horn and Stackhouse and if you can bash them, you will.
Alright but I'll take Josh Powell and Marquis Daniels over Van Horn and Jerry Stackhouse just because they don't make as many mistakes and are more athletic. Josh Powell makes mistakes but his prescence has already been felt in a positive way over what Van Horn was. Yes we lose as a team but I want the best team out there for chemistry and not by individual talent and stats.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Alright but I'll take Josh Powell and Marquis Daniels over Van Horn and Jerry Stackhouse just because they don't make as many mistakes and are more athletic.</div>Van Horn and Stack don't even average that many turnovers. And recently of Daniels play, he's made as many mistakes as Stack has, including stupid fouls.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Yes we lose as a team but I want the best team out there for chemistry and not by individual talent and stats.</div>I don't see Van Horn or Stack being detrimental to any of our chemistry, the whole team seems tight knit. And I haven't seen any pushes by Van Horn to pad his stats. Stack on the other hand has, but it's not like Daniels hasn't either. But yea, I'm done because you hate them and that's it.
I don't hate them. Just their game but you don't understand since you find no faults in their play and yes they average a lot of turnovers for the short minutes they play. I'll get the stats if I have to. Maybe I dislike Stack a little because of his temper tandroms with the refs but there is nothing for me to hate Van Horn on.
Guys lets face it, we are going to lose some guys this off season.Terry, Marshall, Powell, Mbenga, KVH, and Griffin will all be FA's, and all should get offers in the open market.I believe we should do our best to resign Terry to a contract first, but some teams will be offering him some big time money, if not, great for us.As far as Powell, Mbenga and Marshall go, all it takes is for them to have a good game or 2 in the playoffs, let alone string a few together.Powell has stepped up to the backup role for Dirk, and if he keeps it up, we might have the same problem with both him and MBenga that we had with Marquis a few years back. We might have to offer more than the minimum to resign them.Marshall we should be able to resign easily enough.As long as KVH doesn't want big money, than we'd be smart to bring him back, he is effective when his shot is falling, and he does have some smooth post up moves as well.And I think we should highly value what Griffin has done for us, and could continue to do.Here's my list of Priorties1. Terry - the Mavs won't pay big for him, but we will have to give out a decent contract, it won't be a MLE or anything like that. I believe Harris isn't ready to start full time, and we don't want to lose a quality PG for nothing...again. (If we do lose him, then we better get Cassell).2. Powell - It shouldn't be real expensive to keep him, but it'll probably be more than the minimum. He will only get better as he plays more, and if he does progress, he wouldn't be a bad backup for Dirk.3. Griffin - Avery and the Mavs are high on him, and I think he's more valuable to our team than most of the bench players, but I'm not sure if he's going to want to come back, or who, if anyone else, would offer him a contract. If we can keep him cheep, we jump on it.4. KVH - He'd be a good bargain at the MLE, or less, and as long as he's not offered a big money contract(alot like Terry could be) the Mavs would be smart to bring him back as well.5. Marshall - The good thing is that he hasn't made the big splash that Marquis Daniels made several years ago, and that could help us out alot, as interest in him won't be too high. We definately need to keep him if we can.6. MBenga - I love this guy, and think he could develop into a very good backup or quality big man in the league, unfortunately, the league as a whole way overpays the bigs in the league, especially guys that have talent, and have potential...MBenga is one of those guys. That's the order I think we should take, and no I'm not taking into account a draft or anything.On a side note, you see how many late round picks, Rookie FA's, and overall young talented guys on our team?I mean overall, not just this year, this is what our recent draft and Rookies breakdown.Late round picks:Josh Howard - The second best player on the Mavs period.Podkolzine - a project, not sure what he'll be or won't be.Rookie FA's:Marquis Daniels - Very valuable to the Mavs, but he needs more PT.Josh Powell - Is playing well as Dirk's backup right now, It shouldn't change.Rawle Marshalle - Played well for us when we had the 4 key injuries.MBenga - Is developing into a very good backup big man.And then you through in our young PG Harris to that and we have a very young, very talented team.The reason I bring this up, in regards to FA and who we should and shouldn't go after, is because other organizations look at the Mavs. They pay attention to who the Mavs look at, sign as rookie FA's, put in the NBDL league and so forth.So far the Mavs have done one of the best jobs in the league at finding young talent, and developing it as well.So when you think a guy like Powell or Marshall or Mbenga won't get signed, or be offered a contract with decent money, you are mislead.Not only have all these guys contributed at times this season, the rest of the league knows the Mavs dont' waste their time on untalented guys...and if any of these guys have a good playoff, than it's going to be worse.Just some food for thought.
I don't get why people doubt Mbenga on that list. Too me he is just as valuable as Griffin, Marshall, and Van Horn. You can't have enough big man but I guess Diop and Dampier are already there so it will be hard to sign him. If either Dampier or Diop go down Mbenga will be needed badly though but I guess he will be overpaid anyways like you said.
See you misunderstand me man, I like Mbenga, and think we should do everything we can to keep him, but we really can't get in a bidding war for him.He's not worth 8 mill a year, and some dumb team will offer him something like that.I put him at 6 on the Priority List cause the other guys are needed to be addressed before him, and because I think someone will offer him big money, and the Mavs can't afford to match that...especially if they have to match whatever Terry gets, and a guy like Powell and maybe even KVH.But we'll have to wait and see what happens.
Oh man....that's tough.Depends really on who you think has the bigger future...I mean KVH would be more helpful to us right now as far as next season goes.But MBenga could turn into something nice at Center...But me, if I resigned Powell, I'd keep Mbenga, if I didn't keep Powell, I'd have to take KVH, just so Dirk could get some rest during the season. You really don't want Howard spelling Dirk all the time.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Apr 9 2006, 07:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If Mbenga and Van Horn was paid the same, who would you keep?</div>I love how Mbenga plays, so as a fan i'd go with Mbenga, but as a General Manager/Coach I'd go with Van Horn for the following reasons:1. We already have Diop, Dampier, and Podkolzin. I think it would be a waste to have 4 centers trying to get playing time. 2. Like Marvinmartian said, Mbenga is good, but not worth a ton of cash.3. Van Horn is more talented on the offensive end. He can also play 3 positions. He can play along Dirk at the 4 and 5 spots, He can play the 4, and he can play the 3. 4.Van Horn will prolly come at a smaller price. His prone to injuy might actually help keep him since teams dont really like to take big chances at signing injury prone players to contracts. Bottom line:I really dont think we will sign both. In my honest opinion i think we really shouldnt sign either back unless its to a minimum contract. i'd rather have Terry, Powell, Griffin, and possibly Marshall back before Van Horn and Mbenga, but to answer your question, Van Horn.
I agree, we can't sign both back, and if we were forced to let both walk, due to having spent cash on Terry, or Cassell if we lose Terry, and Powell, possibly Griffin too...I wouldn't be too unhappy.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I don't hate them. Just their game but you don't understand since you find no faults in their play and yes they average a lot of turnovers for the short minutes they play. I'll get the stats if I have to. Maybe I dislike Stack a little because of his temper tandroms with the refs but there is nothing for me to hate Van Horn on.</div>When did I say have no faults? Every player has faults, I just don't dwell on them and continually bring them up. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Here's my list of Priorties1. Terry - the Mavs won't pay big for him, but we will have to give out a decent contract, it won't be a MLE or anything like that. I believe Harris isn't ready to start full time, and we don't want to lose a quality PG for nothing...again. (If we do lose him, then we better get Cassell).2. Powell - It shouldn't be real expensive to keep him, but it'll probably be more than the minimum. He will only get better as he plays more, and if he does progress, he wouldn't be a bad backup for Dirk.3. Griffin - Avery and the Mavs are high on him, and I think he's more valuable to our team than most of the bench players, but I'm not sure if he's going to want to come back, or who, if anyone else, would offer him a contract. If we can keep him cheep, we jump on it.4. KVH - He'd be a good bargain at the MLE, or less, and as long as he's not offered a big money contract(alot like Terry could be) the Mavs would be smart to bring him back as well.5. Marshall - The good thing is that he hasn't made the big splash that Marquis Daniels made several years ago, and that could help us out alot, as interest in him won't be too high. We definately need to keep him if we can.6. MBenga - I love this guy, and think he could develop into a very good backup or quality big man in the league, unfortunately, the league as a whole way overpays the bigs in the league, especially guys that have talent, and have potential...MBenga is one of those guys. That's the order I think we should take, and no I'm not taking into account a draft or anything.</div>The only real guy we need to sign straight up is Terry, if not then were lucky there's a good amount of pg's who are free agents. But I think we will find a deal to agree on, about the 7-8 mil mark. Van Horn, again if cheap, he's better then most of the free agents on the market at the 4, you can't beat that.Powell and Marshall are being overrated, they can easily be replaced if their gonna get overpaid by some team. Both are undrafted rookies, you don't spend some of the MLE on them for backup roles. Daniels was a different case as he shown ability to be a legit starter, Rawle and Powell haven't. We can easily replace either with a 1st round and 2nd round draft pick this year. As for Griff, again I don't think he's much of a priority, especially if we keep Rawle. But I expect him back for the gratitude Mavs shown him when nobody else wanted him and he's not looking for money.Benga already been stated by me, probably a goner, could sign for LLE though.Terry- bird rightsVan Horn - 3/4 of MLEGriff - rest of MLERawle - minPowell - LLE? or Benga - LLE?DA? - Vet, if he plans to play.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>If Mbenga and Van Horn was paid the same, who would you keep?</div>Van Horn, Mbenga would be overpaid. He's a third string center, Pavel can easily take that role next year.
I agree with most of what you said, but Daniels, while proven he can contribute, hasn't proven he's bonafide starter yet. Even with all the swingman and guard injuries, he still didn't start but for a few times.I do think if someone pays big money for Marshall or Powell, the Mavs should let them walk, but I don't think anyone is overrating them. I do think both guys should develop into quality backup role players, and you can never get enough of those, as the Mavs found out this year.I too think if you talking KVH or Benga, choose one...I'd go with KVH too.But like I said earlier, if KVH is offered big money somewhere, and we sign Powell for cheap, than we should at least attempt to keep MBenga if we can.But I think MBenga is as good as gone too. Like I said before, not only does he have some talent, other teams will snatch him up because he's actually getting playing time on the Mavs, and the Mavs don't have anyone on their roster that could be classified as untalented.
Jason Terry's Salary: $6,666,667Would it really matter if he got a $9 million salary?Keith Van Horn's Salary: $15,694,250Move Van Horn's salary for next season to $6 million, and you're saving about $7.5 million from giving Keith $6 million and Terry $9 million.
He's probably our best shooting guard, and should get a chance to a start, I think his injuries prevented occuring especially after his freshman year. They won't get big money, that's where I think the overrating comes in play. And if they somehow do, then Mavs should just move because their replaceable. If that's the case then yea sign Benga, but I doubt Van Horn gets offered any more then the MLE. Depends on the years for each. But both will likely be back imo.
