Beause the question was are the Mavs on a nother level. And they are right now.All I'm conceding is that when the playoffs start, like in every other sport, the records or 0-0, and the Spurs and Suns will be just about neck and neck with the Mavs.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 6 2007, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Beause the question was are the Mavs on a nother level. And they are right now.All I'm conceding is that when the playoffs start, like in every other sport, the records or 0-0, and the Spurs and Suns will be just about neck and neck with the Mavs.</div>Again, let's say the playoffs started on April 15th. So you're saying that the Mavs are on another level on April 14th, yet on same level on April 15th? That is a horrible way of analyzing things.As I said before, the Mavs are the favorites due to their record and dominance in season, but they haven't shown they are a championship caliber team and didn't dominate their conference enough to say they are on a different level than the Spurs or Suns. That is why I keep saying they have to prove things in playoffs to be on a different level and head and shoulders above everyone else.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 6 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ok then. The Mavericks made it to the finals last year, including beating the Suns in a 7 game series. AND, this year they have a better record than them. That is why they are on a different level than the Suns.</div>They didn't win a championship yet and when both teams were healthy they had the same record. They aren't on any different level and getting to the Finals last year doesn't make a difference. I bet if the Suns switched places with them last year you'd be talking about how their style of play is the reason why they lost the Finals and with the Mavs great D they are still the better team. Both teams have accomplished the same thing the last couple years, gone deep and lost.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ballerman2112 @ Mar 6 2007, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Dude, try not to use injuries for EVERYTHING. Look at the records....Its not that much of a difference without Amare. And as for Kurt Thomas, he isnt even playing a great load right now, and u are acting like he is the mesiah on defense. He isnt a bad defender, but its not like he can guard Dirk. So the Suns had injury problems last year, they have a worse record this year. But hey, that is because of injuries right? OR, it might be because the Mavs have gone on 3 different streaks where they have won 12 games in a row, and have currently won 14 in a row. The Mavs are the best team in basketball right now. And the Suns are not. Therefore, they are on a different level.</div>When they were healthy and even right now I think they are on pace for about 10 more wins than last year. Kurt was great for us last year and made a HUGE, HUGE difference in our defense. What was it, 8% FG% difference for the other team without him? And he was our only interior defender at the time. He wouldn't have guarded Dirk but would have helped shorten those previous two series that went on too long and that would've been good because the players needed rest. The Suns went on 2 winning streaks of 15 or more which is great too and they haven't been as lucky. The Mavs would've been swept by the Spurs last year if they had the same injuries as the Suns.
I disagree with you there, Suns have more to prove than the Mavs. Mavs DID beat the Spurs (although not very concvincingly) and DID get to the Finals.But I believe the Mavs, Spurs and Suns are still on the same level when each team is healthy. Between the 3 Mavs are slight favorites, but to say theya re on a different level just isn't true.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 6 2007, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The Suns started off 1-4, Amare was struggling to come back from injury, Diaw was out of shape, etc... Nash was out for 3-4 games, and they went like 1-3. That is 1-7 right there, so using their record last season and this seaosn is pointless. Ask any person who watches the Suns on a daily basis and they will tell you they are a much better team than last year (who was one dimensional offensively and defensively).He helps bring some presence defensively when other players pentrate the paint. He also won't allow Kwame Brown to go for the kind of series he did last year. He is SOMETHING down low, and helps compliment the presence of Amare. Last year in the playoffs they had NO presence down low. The Suns have gone on a 17 game win streak, 15 game win streak, and 14-1 on road vs the East. So showing me all of those streaks the Mavs have gone on isn't doing much. Nash was out for a few games, and at beginning of the year they had out of shape players and the intial akwardness of fitting Amare back in. They are a MUCH better team now than they were when the Mavs played them in the playoffs last year.As I said before, 2 teams in this millennium have held best record of regular season and then went on to win a title. Having a great record means nothing until you can prove thing sin the playoffs, and to be head and shoulders and on a totally different level than anyone else they have to do that. Last year they squeeked by Spurs, faced Suns at 3/4 strength, and totally collapsed in Finals. They aren't a championship team yet, and until they can reach that level, no matter the record, they aren't on a totally different level than the top teams in the West IMO. If you disagree, then go ahead, but that is my feeling on that subject.AGAIN, what the hell is the point of saying they are on a different level in regular season, then on same level in playoffs? That makes no sense whatsoever. As anyone will tell you, the regular season means nothing without a title. They haven't proven they can win one yet, therefor they are still on same level as the other top teams in the West (one of which has won 2 rings in the past 4 years).</div>That's true. They were very 1-dimensional. Without Amare there was little interior scoring, without Amare and Kurt there was NO interior D which really hurt the overall defense. The team was relying mostly on jump shooting and they lost their 2nd best shooter and 2nd most reliable shooter in the WCF. What team without interior scoring, interior defense and only a couple good shooters when that's what they rely on is ever going to win? They had enough talent with those injuries to still get to a Game 6 in a 3rd series. Now they have fixed those problems, Kurt Thomas will play more for sure during the playoffs. That's why I think this team is pretty much on the same level. Only think I'm hoping for now is that D'Antoni learns to use his bench in case of injury so this problem doesn't come back when we lose role players. But when both teams are healthy I don't see the Mavs ahead of the Suns at all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 6 2007, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I disagree with you there, Suns have more to prove than the Mavs. Mavs DID beat the Spurs (although not very concvincingly) and DID get to the Finals.But I believe the Mavs, Spurs and Suns are still on the same level when each team is healthy. Between the 3 Mavs are slight favorites, but to say theya re on a different level just isn't true.</div>I just don't think they are so much better and so much more playoff ready by barely getting by the Spurs and a Suns team with many injuries. It just seems like everyone thinks that the Mavs have proved so much more just because they are focusing on defense and I think that's just...(don't want to use absurd so pick a word to put here).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Mar 6 2007, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again, let's say the playoffs started on April 15th. So you're saying that the Mavs are on another level on April 14th, yet on same level on April 15th? That is a horrible way of analyzing things.</div>No it's not, you just don't agree with it, lol<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>As I said before, the Mavs are the favorites due to their record and dominance in season, but they haven't shown they are a championship caliber team and didn't dominate their conference enough to say they are on a different level than the Spurs or Suns. That is why I keep saying they have to prove things in playoffs to be on a different level and head and shoulders above everyone else.</div>By being favorites that would mean they are on another level.BTW, they didn't dominate their conference? Just to prove a point the Mavs are 32-6 against the rest of the West, while the Suns are 22-10, and the Spurs are 25-11.I'd call that domination by the Maves, look the Suns have 4 more losses against the West with 6 less games against the West.How much more dominating do you want? How about the 4-1 record against the Suns and Spurs so far? Is that good enough? LOL.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 6 2007, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I just don't think they are so much better and so much more playoff ready by barely getting by the Spurs and a Suns team with many injuries. It just seems like everyone thinks that the Mavs have proved so much more just because they are focusing on defense and I think that's just...(don't want to use absurd so pick a word to put here).</div>Stop that. The fact is the Mavs did get past the Spurs in a game 7 IN S.A. Something Nobody thought they could do. And injuries are part of the game...you can't discount the Mavs because of that. If they didn't have Nash, Marion, and Amare, then you could say something...but not just missing Amare.And the Suns were without Amare, but let's face it, the Suns were damn good without him anyways, and aren't WAY better with him this year either.The Suns are better with Amare, and the Mavs are better than they were last year, so just as much as PHX improved, the Mavs did too IMO.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 6 2007, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>By being favorites that would mean they are on another level.</div>I suppose it depends on hwo you view things, but IMO right now there is no team int he West I consider on another level. There are only a few teams int he past few years that were on totally different levels than other teams, and those teams being lakers of 2001 (despite not having best record in league). The Mavs squeeked by the Spurs last year, beat a Suns team at 3/4 strength in a 6 game series, then collapsed in Finals. I refuse to say they are on a whole 'nother level than those teams based on those 2 facts. Yes, the regular season has been amazing, but only 2 teams in this millennium have had best record and a NBA title to show for it.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>BTW, they didn't dominate their conference? Just to prove a point the Mavs are 32-6 against the rest of the West, while the Suns are 22-10, and the Spurs are 25-11.I'd call that domination by the Maves, look the Suns have 4 more losses against the West with 6 less games against the West.How much more dominating do you want? How about the 4-1 record against the Suns and Spurs so far? Is that good enough? LOL.</div>I was referring to the playoffs last year, this year they have done an amazing job against the West. But they faced Suns only once at full strength and won by a game winnign 20ft fadeaway, I wouldn't call that dominating.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ Mar 6 2007, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Stop that. The fact is the Mavs did get past the Spurs in a game 7 IN S.A. Something Nobody thought they could do. And injuries are part of the game...you can't discount the Mavs because of that. If they didn't have Nash, Marion, and Amare, then you could say something...but not just missing Amare.And the Suns were without Amare, but let's face it, the Suns were damn good without him anyways, and aren't WAY better with him this year either.The Suns are better with Amare, and the Mavs are better than they were last year, so just as much as PHX improved, the Mavs did too IMO.</div>Having Amare is a BIG deal and it has made them much better. They don't have a 1 dimensional offense anymore and I don't think there is anyone in the league that can stop Amare from scoring more than 20 a game right now. With him we have better rebounding and defense too. With Amare back this team is much better and much more playoff ready than before, it helped them more than the Mavs getting a few better role players. He helps with the halfcourt game, hopefully D'Antoni can put him in more, and he takes away pressure off of Nash and anyone else. The offense is just better with him on the floor.Oh and I thought you guys would beat the Spurs. :happy0144: And I'm happy you did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Mar 6 2007, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They didn't win a championship yet and when both teams were healthy they had the same record. They aren't on any different level and getting to the Finals last year doesn't make a difference. I bet if the Suns switched places with them last year you'd be talking about how their style of play is the reason why they lost the Finals and with the Mavs great D they are still the better team. Both teams have accomplished the same thing the last couple years, gone deep and lost.</div>If the Suns made it to the finals last year, then this discussion would be alot better. BUT, they didnt. Injuries aside, the Mavericks beat them last year in the playoffs, and the Mavericks are the ones with the best record in the NBA right now. Therefore, they are on a different level. They have been consistent all year long, they have proven that they can stay healthy, and that is an advantage for them. You keep on bringing in injuries all over the place, but injuries are apart of the game. They are going to have to deal with them. Give the Mavericks that much more credit for staying healthy. Don't discredit the Mavericks because the Suns cant stay healthy.
As for injuries, guys like Josh and Dirk just won't stay down. Beleive, with all the leg and ankle injuries The Mavs two stars have suffered over the past year or so, would keep alot of guys down...give them credit for coming back game after game.Oh, and for not crying and being rolled off in a whell chair
I dont know if ya'll know this, but with the win over the Orlando on Friday, the Mavericks officially clinched a playoff spot. I know that they were going to make the playoffs, but it was official on Friday. :happy0144:
Annnnnnnd Suns win 129-127.Sorry for the bump, but this should make the debate a bit more interesting.Amare owned every Mavs big man.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jammin @ Mar 19 2007, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Annnnnnnd Suns win 129-127.Sorry for the bump, but this should make the debate a bit more interesting.Amare owned every Mavs big man.</div>You can't decide which team is better by watching that game, it could have gone either way.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tHe_pEsTiLeNcE @ Mar 19 2007, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>well, at least now you can't try to say that amare not being there for the suns didn't mean anything</div>The same could be said for Dampier with 11 offensive rebounds as he couldn't be used last year because of Tim Thomas. Harris, Buckner, and George would've been nice to have as well at the end of this game. Don't forget Howard fouling out.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (12HRockets @ Mar 3 2007, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think the Mavs will end sumwer near the 70 win mark. they really are havin a remarkable season. Their toughest challenge will be in the Western conference finals where they will face either the Suns or the Spurs.</div>Damn, I know... The competition is just so tuff this year.All three teams deserve the best, but only one will get it.If the Mavs can beat those 2 teams. They pretty much have the championship as a shoe-in. IMO.
