<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>When did murder become morality, i will concede homosexuality as a moral issue, but abortion. It is an issue of people killing babies. If someone beat up a pregnant woman and her baby died, it is murder, no diferent than if she decides to do it herself.</div> Can you prove the baby is alive?
Also, if a woman is unfortunate enough to have a miscarriage, should that be considered murder of some sort?? She didn't mean to do it, of course, but the baby was killed by her body.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LSUpackfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, if a woman is unfortunate enough to have a miscarriage, should that be considered murder of some sort?? She didn't mean to do it, of course, but the baby was killed by her body.</div> This is just dumb, there is a very specific difference between intent and accident. Yes it can be proven the baby is alive.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (LSUpackfan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Also, if a woman is unfortunate enough to have a miscarriage, should that be considered murder of some sort?? She didn't mean to do it, of course, but the baby was killed by her body.</div> This is just dumb, there is a very specific difference between intent and accident. Yes it can be proven the baby is alive.</div> How so?
You know who Bush reminds me off a little bit, Merril Hoge. Merril Hoge picked the Eagles to go 8-8 and not make the playoffs. They are no 7-0, and he still picks against them every game. He never waivers in the face of all the facts. You may not agree with him, but you do know what you are getting...a F*cking moron.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>Homosexuality is not natural. Abortion should be allowed w/ certain provisions. There are many stupid people IMO doing lots of this I don't agree with. However, I've got enough problems of my own to work out w/o getting all moral majority or becoming some ribbon-wearing, candlelight vigil holding, touchy feely, socialism is the answer, nimrod. Let me simplify even oversimplify. Morality IMO should not be legislated. The individual should have the choice. Doesn't the Declararation of Indepepndence say its all about Life, liberty, & the pursuit of happiness?</div> There are so many valid points about this post. Unfortunately, I don?t think you can simplify the process that much. Morality and the judicial system cannot be mutually exclusive in a civilized environment. In fact, you could argue that the judicial system is created to uphold morality, although you might get a snicker from some?.me included from time to time. If you don?t legislate, you don?t have a judicial system. If you really want to go down this path, you should join those over at www.barber-shop-talk.com ? our other site. I just wrote a long thread on this kind of debate?.and I just left it wide open for criticism.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>When did murder become morality,</div> The 10 commandments.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'> There are so many valid points about this post. Unfortunately, I don?t think you can simplify the process that much. Morality and the judicial system cannot be mutually exclusive in a civilized environment. In fact, you could argue that the judicial system is created to uphold morality, although you might get a snicker from some?.me included from time to time. If you don?t legislate, you don?t have a judicial system. If you really want to go down this path, you should join those over at www.barber-shop-talk.com ? our other site. I just wrote a long thread on this kind of debate?.and I just left it wide open for criticism. </div> Let me unsimplify my point. I agree that Morality and the judicial system cannot be mutually exclusive. Their needs to be some basis. Its when every little thing is regulated or their and when people start imposing their will & beliefs on others is where I have issues. The Utah legislature is a perfect example.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'> There are so many valid points about this post. Unfortunately, I don?t think you can simplify the process that much. Morality and the judicial system cannot be mutually exclusive in a civilized environment. In fact, you could argue that the judicial system is created to uphold morality, although you might get a snicker from some?.me included from time to time. If you don?t legislate, you don?t have a judicial system. If you really want to go down this path, you should join those over at www.barber-shop-talk.com ? our other site. I just wrote a long thread on this kind of debate?.and I just left it wide open for criticism. </div> Let me unsimplify my point. I agree that Morality and the judicial system cannot be mutually exclusive. Their needs to be some basis. Its when every little thing is regulated or their and when people start imposing their will & beliefs on others is where I have issues. The Utah legislature is a perfect example.</div> Ah. The age old question of how much government is too much government. I hear you there. Get back to me when you figure that one out. Check out my post on the other forum, BA. Read all the way through when you find it. We ended up at the same place. I'd value your opinion.
BA, Since murder is morality, perhaps the legislature should step out on situations like minimum wage. Paying someone too little is a matter of morality. Stealing also becomes a issue of morality so theft should no longer be legislated.
BF1; You are micromanaging/trying to read to much into my thoughts i.e I believe you are seeing the branch but missing the forest. Of course, I have the nasty habit of taking random trees & making a forest. Stealing is a matter of morality. 10 commandments again. <u> There needs to a more concrete, definite way to interpret the laws. </u> There needs to be some basis for how laws are made. We don't need a group of people forcing their belief system on others. Democracy is just as much about protecting the rights of the minority as it is about majority rule. I think C71 sums up what I'm trying so cleverly to say <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ah. The age old question of how much government is too much government.</div> Thomas Jefferson IMO put it best, "The Government which governs least governs best."
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (blackadder)</div><div class='quotemain'>BF1; You are micromanaging/trying to read to much into my thoughts i.e I believe you are seeing the branch but missing the forest. Of course, I have the nasty habit of taking random trees & making a forest. Stealing is a matter of morality. 10 commandments again. <u> There needs to a more concrete, definite way to interpret the laws. </u> There needs to be some basis for how laws are made. We don't need a group of people forcing their belief system on others. Democracy is just as much about protecting the rights of the minority as it is about majority rule. I think C71 sums up what I'm trying so cleverly to say <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cowboy71)</div><div class='quotemain'>Ah. The age old question of how much government is too much government.</div> Thomas Jefferson IMO put it best, "The Government which governs least governs best."</div> I agree. I think the problem is that the Judicial system is actually attacking the rights of the majority in an effort to protect the minorty. I do believe in converting people to my belief system, it is part of the belief. Others beliefs are inherently wrong in my belief system and it is my job to save these people from themselves. I agree that we should not legislate things that dont negatively affect others. I can see how someone would look at gay marraige that way. However I see making abortion illegal as a way to protect the rights of babies. I believe they are alive and deserve the right to life.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>I agree. I think the problem is that the Judicial system is actually attacking the rights of the majority in an effort to protect the minorty. I do believe in converting people to my belief system, it is part of the belief. Others beliefs are inherently wrong in my belief system and it is my job to save these people from themselves. I agree that we should not legislate things that dont negatively affect others. I can see how someone would look at gay marraige that way. However I see making abortion illegal as a way to protect the rights of babies. I believe they are alive and deserve the right to life.</div> I agree that the courts do tend to overcompensate for what is now perceived to be wrong, ignorant, misguided, or all of the above. I'm not saying that there isn't some basis in truth to all the Lawyer jokes. However, the profession(s) that really ruffles my feathers are the therapists, etc... The road to hell is paved w/ good intentions or so the saying goes. The One X Files episode that will always stick out in my mind was in the 6th or 7th Season where Old Nick was a Social Worker by profession. That having been said, I am considering this topic put to bed.
ABORTION: Legal point. Abortion is not murder. People who perform or have abortions within the framework of the law are neither criminals nor murderers. Personal responsibility is what we all want to be the mantra of the ages. However, if you are preaching personal responsibility, you must allow personal choice in matters that are their own. Taking a fourteen year old girl and ?forcing? her to ?raise? a child in the name of personal responsibility isn?t a concept that I can get behind. The likelihood of either of those ?children? growing up and leading a productive life must be low. Statistically, a small number of women having abortions don?t use some form of birth control. They are not acting responsibly, but what about the majority who are using birth control. Aren?t they acting responsibly and with thoughts of taking care of their business? To me, the discussion on abortion usually comes down to personal rights VS societies morality/religious view, or sometimes a concern over whose ?life? is more valuable or important. Sounds crappy, I know, but is the mother?s well being worth more than that of an unborn? When laws starting showing up on the books charging murder for the unborn, the writing was on the wall for me that everyone would begin to gear up for a Roe v Wade review. Whether abortion is a legal or moral issue to you, the likelihood of being worked up on the topic is almost guaranteed. An accident or spontaneous abortion (medical term )that causes the death of an unborn is not murder in the eyes of the law, but what about negligence? What if the miscarriage was the result of drugs or poor nutrition? Is, or should the mother be charged with a crime? Obviously there is life in an unborn. The argument is better stated as what degree of life and what ability to survive outside the womb does that life hold. HOMOSEXUALITY: I think that a better argument than something is a bad thing because I said so is warranted if you want to change someone?s opinion. A statement was made that homosexuality is being banned in states pushing amendments. I?m sure they meant gay marriage. If the argument is that homosexuality is a choice, why would anyone choose it when they know going in that they will be the target of ridicule or violence based on that choice? I know it?s a weak argument, but it?s better than ?because I said so.? I believe that it is very likely that sexuality is generally predetermined. Acting on that predestined nature is optional, and therefore a choice. Michael Jackson chose to stop being black, so I guess that is possible. I?ll leave the Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/North Korea topic to another day/thread. You are all so energized. Please come over to the www.barber-shop-talk.com site and take up where this left off. We can use the diversity and the input.
