Melo Was Right to Defend His Teammate

Discussion in 'Denver Nuggets' started by tremaine, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. TimmyDMVP

    TimmyDMVP JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">TheBlackMamba Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Slap? Are you kidding? If that's a slap, that says a lot about Mardy Collins. He knocked him off his damn feet, that was far from a slap.

    Sure, it looked bitch to run, but you probably would've done the same thing. He was being charged by the Knicks, I think 5 on 1 is a bit of an advantage.</div>

    Watch the replay again he lost his balance and fell backwards
     
  2. umair

    umair "Never underestimate the heart of a champion."

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    ^ Not really. After he got punched. He lost his balance a little, but Jeffries pushed him back a little.
     
  3. TimmyDMVP

    TimmyDMVP JBB JustBBall Member

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    ^ yea but what im saying is that carmelo's slap didnt knock him off his feet
     
  4. Bobcats

    Bobcats JBB JustBBall Member

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    <div class="quote_poster">TimmyDMVP Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^ yea but what im saying is that carmelo's slap didnt knock him off his feet</div>

    Slap? If it was a slap, 4 Knicks wouldn't have rushed Melo. He gave Collins a nice shot to the jaw.
     
  5. umair

    umair "Never underestimate the heart of a champion."

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    <div class="quote_poster">TimmyDMVP Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">^ yea but what im saying is that carmelo's slap didnt knock him off his feet</div>

    You're right and wrong. The wrong this you're saying is that Melo slapped Collins. He didn't slap him, if you watched the video I did, you could literally hear the punch Melo gave to Collins. Melo knocked the ***** out of Collins, it was that loud. Even the commentators were like we could here it down here. The right part is that Melo's "punch" didn't knock Mardy down but it was Jeffries push. I think Collins was in Jeffries way or something and Jeffries moved him out of the way.
     
  6. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    I really can't be bothered reading the whole thread so this has probably been covered - but Melo reacts to the Nuggets' season potentially being over if JR Smith misses a big chunk with injury by punching someone in the face? What does he expect would have happened to him then? That makes no sense whatsoever.
     
  7. tremaine

    tremaine To Win, Be Like Fitz

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    <div class="quote_poster">Sir Desmond Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">I really can't be bothered reading the whole thread so this has probably been covered - but Melo reacts to the Nuggets' season potentially being over if JR Smith misses a big chunk with injury by punching someone in the face? What does he expect would have happened to him then? That makes no sense whatsoever.</div>

    To answer your question specifically, Anthony expected a 3 game suspension, 5 tops. This is the first time a simple punch has resulted in more than a 5-game suspension, and I think it's only the second time or so that a single punch as resulted in more than a 3-game suspension.

    Melo was provoked into throwing the punch for most or all of the following reasons:

    1. Collins' neck tackle was a dangerous flagrant-2. A flagrant-1 shove is already more than enough to prevent the dunk. Hell, an ordinary foul is usually enough.
    2. The neck tackle is against the player Melo knows has to emerge in order to cut back on all the double teams thrown on him. Smith has in fact emerged as a significant 3-point shooter and is trying to emerge as an all-around scoring threat. Before A.I., Smith was the number two guy for the Nuggets light (or poor) defense / fast offense approach to the game. Try to remember a few times you saw Camby shooting and hitting a 3. Without at least one major 3-point shooter, you're not going to win a championship, no matter what your strategy. So Smith to the Nuggets is equal to Tracy McGrady on the Rockets or Lamar Odom on the Lakers, the second most important player on the day of the brawl.
    3. All players know that post game penalties for flagrant-2 fouls are not severe enough, they result in a 1 game suspension and a very small fine at the most. The Commissioner David Stern has the right to waive any penalty for a flagrant-2 and he does waive all penalties from time to time.
    4. Nate Robinson went beserk against J.R. Smith and had most of the Knicks on the floor fired up and ready to brawl.
    5. Collins was cussing and fronting at Melo, challenging him to fight.

    The punch is thrown only after all of this has happened. The punch was reasonable given these factors.

    Since Melo is hammered with the 15 games, everyone should be happy in theory. Those who agree with me are glad Melo got the punch in. Those who think no one should ever throw a punch for any reason are happy because Melo got hammered with the 15 games.

    But I personally thought the 15 games was so overboard that those who think no one should ever throw a punch had won out, but that was offset by the Nuggets getting A.I on the court for the 15 games. Now I'm thinking everyone should be alright, including me.
     
  8. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    So in short, the point of this thread is that Melo is a moron?
     
  9. Iron Shiek

    Iron Shiek Maintain and Hold It Down

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    <div class="quote_poster">Sir Desmond Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">So in short, the point of this thread is that Melo is a moron?</div>

    Nah. More like David Stern has some Fidel/Adolf in him.
     
  10. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    Apparently Melo and JR Smith are best friends.

    If your best friend was fouled hard and getting ready to fight and you had the opportunity to punch the person who fouled him, would you do it?
     
  11. Iron Shiek

    Iron Shiek Maintain and Hold It Down

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    <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">If your best friend was fouled hard and getting ready to fight and you had the opportunity to punch the person who fouled him, would you do it?</div>

    In a pick up game, maybe. At work, no.

    If J.R. Smith had been injured then I would have defended 'Melo vehemently. But since it obviously wasn't so malicious that J.R. Smith would have to sit then 'Melo's actions were inexcusable.

    No one swung on Danny Fortson when he made a worse flagrant foul that cost Zarko Carbakapa his career. And that is probably b/c they knew that Fortson would be able to hold his own if someone wanted to test him.

    Collins doesn't intimidate anyone, which is one of the main reason's why things escalated the way that they did. Had Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, Shaq, A.I., etc. made that same foul it wouldn't have turned into a brawl. Guaranteed.
     
  12. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Apparently Melo and JR Smith are best friends.

    If your best friend was fouled hard and getting ready to fight and you had the opportunity to punch the person who fouled him, would you do it?</div>

    Are we talking outside a bar or on television at work in front of millions of people?
     
  13. Shapecity

    Shapecity S2/JBB Teamster Staff Member Administrator

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    On TV at work in front of millions.
     
  14. Sir Desmond

    Sir Desmond JBB Stig!

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    <div class="quote_poster">shapecity Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">On TV at work in front of millions.</div>

    Then no, I probably wouldn't. I know it was heat of the moment, I'm not in Melo's head etc, I was just responding to the amusing suggestion from the thread starter that in fear of JR Smith getting injured, missing games and ruining the team's season, Melo punches someone.
     
  15. tremaine

    tremaine To Win, Be Like Fitz

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    <div class="quote_poster">Sir Desmond Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Then no, I probably wouldn't. I know it was heat of the moment, I'm not in Melo's head etc, I was just responding to the amusing suggestion from the thread starter that in fear of JR Smith getting injured, missing games and ruining the team's season, Melo punches someone.</div>

    That is just one of the five reasons I listed yesterday (see above) for Melo to be justified in landing a punch. Whether Melo specifically thought of this reason at the time is simply not known. J.R. Smith and Melo being mates, as you say in Australia, makes it more likely than not that reason 2 was involved, either in the intellectual way I described or, much more likely, in the more basic way that shapecity described. (Or, shapecity's point could be a reason #6.}

    Whether reason 3 regarding the lack of any real penalty for the excessive flagrant fouls was actually involved is a toss-up at best. Even though players know this, they might not be able to think of something like this in a heated situation; that thinking might be crowded out by adrenalin. But for me, you don't have to have reason 3. Reasons 1, 4, and 5 alone are enough for me to agree with the punch, and there is no doubt those were in play.

    You should know too that in America, there are MORE fights and brawls in the 3 other major national professional sports, baseball, football, and hockey, than there are in b-ball. I think you have in Australia a more laid-back and smoothly running society, so it's natural you would have fewer fights and brawls in your sports.

    Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion on whether a punch is justified. I was shocked to find out that, at best, 20% or 25% of the public agree with the punch, even though most of them agree that the Knicks started and escalated the situation. I was thinking at least double that many would have agreed with the punch. In Denver it's been running roughly 55% to 65% agreeing with the punch, but that's Nuggets fever.

    As I said before, people who disagree with the punch, and they must believe that a punch is never justified in the current NBA with it's current rules, in order to be consistent, should be happy because of the huge 15 game suspension. You got your wish, and we will all now find out whether the arrival of the Big Whopper Suspension will in fact eliminate fights and brawls. It is most likely going to reduce them, but Stern claims it will eliminate them, and that is the only fair test if you are going to sit major players for 15 games for the first time in League history.

    Don't bring up Pacers-Pistons because that was a unique event that was completely different from your ordinary brawls. I'm not counting the Nuggets-Knicks brawl as a failure of Stern's policy because the Pacers-Pistons debacle might as well have been on another planet. I'm judging Stern's policy from here on out.

    The trouble with suspensions for more than 1/10 of the season, or 8 games, is that you are killing the patient to cure the disease. Were it not for A.I., everyone would be focusing on the suspensions as determining the Nuggets fate this year. What do suspensions have to do with the game? Nothing, but that's all everybody would be talking about. Hopefully, we get enough wins with A.I so we can forget the damn suspensions. As I have explained, if you really want to stop brawls, attack the flagrant-2 foul problem, which triggers most of the fights and brawls.

    One last thing, I'm an intense person and I have been involved in a few fights in my day, so don't think it's just some big fan with blinders on supporting whatever his team does. If you keep visiting here, you will see me heavily criticize what I think are mistakes made by the Nuggets.

    Since I think the way I do, had I been coaching the Nuggets on brawl night, I probably would have run out and been yelling at my top players to get out and trying to physically remove them from the court, because I would have been thinking that all hell was going to break out that could cost my team the season. In other words, to the average person, I probably would have looked foolish, because traditionlly, no coach can stop a brawl once it is underway.

    George Karl is too old and too refined to do something like that. I'll never forget the time the former coach of the Knicks, Jeff Van Gundy, (currently Head Coach of the Rockets) in trying to restrain one of his players in the playoffs from going after someone, (I think it was against the Heat) ended up flat on the hardwood holding on to an ankle. I said to myself at the time: Finally, someone in the NBA who thinks like I do and does what I would do. That was kind of funny.
     
  16. umair

    umair "Never underestimate the heart of a champion."

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    <div class="quote_poster">TimmyDMVP Wrote</div><div class="quote_post">Watch the replay again he lost his balance and fell backwards</div>

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