in other words...there were better trades out there because people want to believe there were better trades out there. And since Cronin couldn't find those hypothetical better trades and turn them into real trades, he failed, and it was better to do nothing....even though it's obvious he was instructed to do a lot more than nothing I will take linear logic over circular logic most every time
are you talking about trade proposals from posters like us or the reported 'real' trade offers from other NBA teams?
I even question "Reported" because plenty of things can get reported by local media that might never be true. Also some teams release certain info just to get a players value better. How many different people reported Lillard wanted to be traded?
And how many reported that about CJ? Or RoCo? Or Norm? Or Nance? Where there is smoke there may be fire. But there was a very distinct lack of smoke regarding these guys...
sure it may all be bullshit but here's the thing, we have the Blazer trades. They happened. And, as far as any 'rumored' proposals we only have heard two for CJ; from Atlanta, and Dallas. Both of which are no better, and probably worse, than the trade to the Pels. Other than those two, all we have is frustration from people somehow convinced there had to be better deals out there, somewhere, anywhere. And that frustration based upon....nothing?...seems to be the genesis for a 10 week collective tantrum around here I kind of see a balance....I wasn't impressed with payoff for the players traded; but I also wasn't impressed with the players traded. I think the scale that weighs all factors is a lot closer to balance than many of you do
I really think all of this is bullshit and the fact is that no one in here has or at least has shared anything remotely close to evidence to support a stance that we absolutely could have gotten better for the guys we sent out or that we absolutely could not have. So in that way this discussion that I have been a part of has been and remains completely pointless and truly without merit on both sides. At the same time it is pointless because it is done, it doesn't matter if there weren't any better trades or if there were because we now have what we have. I guess it does matter in a forum sense if people in here want Cronin to get the permanent GM job or not but that's not in our control at all. I just hope we get resolution on that as soon as possible, I hope we get the first pick in the draft during the lottery (or at least move up) and I hope we have the person in place to make the best moves and actually does execute the best moves at the draft and during free agency. What we got for CJ, Norm, RoCo and Larry if you like it or if you don't is Hart, Winslow, Johnson, the Bucks' 2025 first rounder top 4 protected by the Pelicans, Louzada, RFA rights on Hughes, bird rights on Ingles, the 57th pick in this year's draft, the Pistons' second rounder in 2025, the Pelicans' 2027 second rounder, a second round pick swap with the Pelicans in 2026, two TPE's worth ~21M and ~6M and a shit ton of future salaries cut. That's what we had and now what we have. That is not up for debate. It's what we all have to move forward knowing, some of us completely dissatisfied with this reality, others seemingly completely satisfied with it and still others somewhere in the middle. I would think that if you're not completely satisfied with what went out and what came back then you would be hoping that either someone replaces Cronin immediately or that the team puts someone very good above Joe as President of Basketball Operations.
You keep forgetting to mention the salaries. Getting rid of those was out of Cronin's control. And even without consideration of the salaries, nobody has shown any other trades that would have been much better for us than what Cronin did and would also be appealing for the other team. I don't understand how people can be so upset with an outcome without considering the alternatives. Norm and CJ were not coming back. That salary had to go. Once you accept that, there weren't much better options. And you had to include Nance and RoCo to make it palatable for the other teams.
Fuck! I swear that was meant to come right after the pick swap. So my bad *the over hundred million in future salaries cut from the books. I will also put that in the post you are replying to. Thanks for the heads up.
And that's all ownership. Nothing Cronin or any other GM could do about that. And that was known pretty much league wide long before the deadline...
A lack of the ability to prove conjecture on an argument is just as compelling for the arguments that criticize the moves as it is to those that say they were the best deals possible. Not one of us, not even if you were an NBA insider has the info to definitively say there were better moves out there or there weren't. The fact that you won't give up on your side of that being some sort of certainty is really incredibly illogical, meaning that it shows that your lack of logic calls into question your credibility.
That's a fair assumption but it's still an assumption. The only part of that which is confirmed and was confirmed by Cronin while explaining why he made the moves he made which in and of itself makes the source not quite concrete, is that we had to cut ~2M from the cap for this season to avoid the repeater tax. It's just conjecture on my part and does not in the least bit matter since the deals are already done but I think that ~2M could have been cut in a thousand different ways using one of any of the thirty teams in the NBA as a trade partner.
Everybody knew they were getting under the salary cap before the deadline. Every podcast and news reporter knew it. It wasn't a secret. The way things went down back that up. I'm not certain of anything except no body has shown any proposals that would be agreeable to both sides. Why would I assume there were better deals available? I've said many times, we just don't know enough to know one way or the other. You're trying to paint me into a position I haven't taken. I'm not defending Cronin. I'm asking people to back up the reasoning for their anger. Being angry for no reason just seems illogical to me. Yeah, we had a ton of salary to dump and it was mostly wrapped up in duplicate players who aren't overly hard to find, so not overly valuable to most teams. Certainly not as valuable as long 2-way wings...
Cutting just 2 million isn't going to help much for keeping you under the cap when you are going to be signing Ant to $20 mil plus and Nurk to $15 and Nasir to maybe $10 mil... Unfortunately just looking at talent out and talent in doesn't tell the whole story. It's not that easy.
The idea is to avoid the repeater tax by being under for the year. We'll be over next year. But yeah, fuck our ownership. We need better ownership, for sure.
If the idea is just to get out of the repeater it's just being under this year because we dodged it last season too... being under this season completely resets the clock. So all we had to do to make sure we wouldn't be a repeater team this year or any of the next three was cut our cap number by ~2M. But it doesn't matter because we made the moves we made and we can just hope for the best moves possible going forward and that the best person/people possible is or are making those decisions. We also got to hope to get a little lucky and move up in the lotto or less likely stay where we're at. It is more likely that we land a top four pick than it is that we land the seventh pick and it's also more likely that we get one of the top for than the eighth. Obviously when you combine the odds of the 7th and 8th pick that range is the most likely destination for our pick. Let's hope we get a little lucky. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/
Maybe, but what we most definitely don't need.......is worse ownership. And that is a huge possibility. All the new owners these days have 2 billion or more. You need an owner who is not in it for the money because those owners will sell to make a profit....to anyone, anywhere. Let me know when we have the list put together of multi-billionaires who are big Portland fans that under no circumstance will move the team, or even worry about the luxury tax. We have had one of the highest payrolls for years until now. Yes we could use better management, but we could also of have had much worse ownership.
