Merged: The Draft Thread For Stuff About The Draft Including Thoughts About The Draft

Just have to say this again because F ESPN

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/new...o-ball-jayson-tatum/f8lnavpz2ix6144rhump5ly2t

or

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/18875530/2017-nba-draft-out

 

yeah i think i would have to go with semi because of that reason. that kid is a freak, something we don't have on this team and he can be a good passer. i can see becoming more like jae crowder

 

Then you must have not watched those guys play much in college. All three showed advanced shot making, handles and playmaking that suggested they could handle a high usage offensive role in the NBA.

I'm fine with you thinking he can be a limited 3 and D player, but he hasn't shown the requisite skills to be anything more than that.

 

Snowflake
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Kidding

 

I see a good NBA role player with a high floor. I'd love to have a 3-and-D player on the Blazers. We have none. Big 3-And-D SFs are always drafted too low. Robinson will be another.

 

My Big Board as of 5/6/2017:
-------------------------------
1: Markelle Fultz
2: Josh Jackson
3: Jayson Tatum
4: Dennis Smith Jr.
5: De'Aaron Fox
6: Lonzo Ball
7: Jonathan Isaac
8: Malik Monk
9: Frank Ntilikina
10: Zach Collins
-------------------------------
11: Lauri Markkanen
12: Justin Patton
13: OG Anunoby
14: Jarrett Allen
15: Justin Jackson
16: Juwan Evans
17: Terrence Ferguson
18: Harry Giles
19: D.J. Wilson
20: Devin Robinson
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21: Ike Anigbogu
22: Donovan Mitchell
23: Tyler Lydon
24: Caleb Swanigan
25: Jonathan Motley
26: John Collins
27: Semi Ojeleye
28: Isaiah Hartenstein
29: Jonathan Jeanne
30: T.J. Leaf
-------------------------------
*Noteable Players Outside Top 30*
Ivan Rabb, Luke Kennard, Bam Adebeyo, Rodions Kurucs

 

Big 3 and D players with no ball skills return borderline top 20 value if they hit their ceiling so I think early 2nd is just fine for him.

Stronger Wesley Johnson is his best case to me and I just can't get excited about that.

 

He doesn't need to be a creator. A 13, 14ppg player with solid (38%+) 3pt shooting, good defense, and athleticism is a top 15 level talent in almost any draft.

His ceiling is a better shooting, better defending Harkless. He will improve his ball skills to the point where he'll comfortably attack close-outs. He's a SF, he doesn't need to be up top doing a bunch of CJ McCollum-like hanging crossovers trying to break his man down. He doesn't need to be creating 5 assists a game.

If he learned how to do both, he'd be an all-star. That's what happened with Kawhi Leonard.

"Ball skills" is really the only knock on him, but it shouldn't be a big factor. Why? Because too many people look at a prospect as a whole player without thinking about what his NBA role will be. It's stuff like "limited upside because of limited ball skills" that cause good players to drop. Two great examples of this is Wesley Matthews and Malcolm Brogdon. He's a good rebounder, good defender, good shooter, athletic, has great length (6'8 with a 7'0 wingspan)... Those translate easily into a starting level SF. All of those are bigger factor than his ball skills, especially if he finds the right team, who has two guards that can create and need floor spacing and defense (basically, Portland).

It's funny that you knock Robinson for his ball skills, but then strongly support Kadeem Allen. Kadeem Allen needs ball skills more than Robinson, as he's a 6'3 guard, not a 6'8 SF. Meanwhile Allen is over two years older than Robinson.

 

Malcolm Brogdon could dribble and make a play at the college level. It's why we heard whispers before the draft that he had PG potential. The questions surrounding him were more about how his size, shooting and athleticism would translate at the NBA level. And Wesley Matthews is such a unique case that I think trying to use him to justify another player's chances of NBA success is doing nothing for your argument.

I'm not even going to get into Kadeem Allen. They are completely different players so I don't think comparing their ball skills is doing anything constructive from a prospect evaluation standpoint, but I think there is enough evidence out there to support that he'll be a valuable playmaker in some capacity. I also don't think they are in the same stratosphere defensively, both from a tools and IQ standpoint and I don't think that changes suddenly once Devin turns 24.

But getting back to the main point, I clearly see what Devin Robinson's role will be in the NBA and it's just a matter of whether his skills are at the level they'll need to be to fulfill it. I just think we disagree on the idea that there is some sort of star potential hiding in his game. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere is his tape or statistical profile that supports that idea, which wasn't the case for any of the guys you've brought up to support your argument, including Kawhi Leonard.

 

I don't think there's star potential hiding in his game. I think his ceiling is a 15ppg scorer on near 40% 3pt shooting with very good defense. Basically, what we all hope Crabbe could become.

On Brogdon, his biggest question mark was his ability to create on an NBA level.

I don't care about comparing individual players, because you're just stating that every under-drafted 3-And-D guy add ball skills coming out of college (which isn't the case).

All I'm saying is big SGs and SFs who can play defense or shoot are typically under-drafted, especially if they can do both.

Middleton, Leonard, George, Butler, Antetokounmpo, Carroll, Crowder, Brogdon, Matthews, Dray. Green, Danny Green, Bazemore, Crabbe... That's just off the top of my head.

Every one of those players (except for George, 10th), went 15th or lower.

Robinson is deserving of a top 20 pick, but his range will be 30-40. Do I want to pick him at 15 or 20? No, because I think we could trade down and get an early 2nd and still pick him.

 

And not because he couldn't dribble or pass...are you really going to disagree with that? What wasn't clear for Brogdon was if he had the quickness and/or advanced handle to turn the corner in the pnr plus create seperation 1 v 1 without a screen against NBA athletes. Nobody was questioning his sure handedness with the ball or his ability to be make accurate reads as a ballhandler. Those were two of his biggest strengths coming out of Virginia.

But whatever man, there is so much straw man in your arguments, it's ridiculous. All the guys YOU brought up had shown more handling, passing and self creation signs than Devin Robinson. That is an absolute fact and you don't need to even watch their college tape to figure that out.

Ultimately, I think Devin Robinson is a scrub and you don't and nothing you or I say is going to change that.

/derailing thread

 

You have the strawman argument of "he has no ball skills". I'm not even saying he does, I'm saying it doesn't matter, because everything else he has makes him a top 20 prospect, and noting that size and defense is underrated attributes in SFs. Your argument to that? "He has no ball skills." Haha.

We'll revisit this in a few years.

 

We definitely will.

And to be fair, you didn't make that very clear with the way you responded initially. Kinda seemed like you back tracked after throwing out names like Khris Middleton and Jimmy Butler to disparage the reasons why I disliked him as a prospect, but I might be misreading things.

But regardless of whether you think Robinson has ball skills or not, his statistical profile puts an obvious cap on his ceiling and guys that are similar to him in that respect and also went on to have NBA success where almost all significantly better college players at a younger age.

All of this makes him a much riskier prospect than his tools plus projectable skillset might suggest.

One last thing on Robinson. He jumps high but I'm not a fan of him anywhere else athletically. His feet look heavy to me and overall looks really awkward/clunky/clumsy navigating the perimeter defensively.

Makes me question how effective he'll be defending skilled perimeter scorers and if he can't guard those types, that really torpedoes his value.

It's the same worry I have with OG Anunoby.

 

Why is Bam Adebayo falling so low in the draft? He used to be mentioned as potentially a lottery pick and now it seems he might even land outside the first round altogether.

 

Sometimes you don't see a player real potential due to the college game is more control by the coach what he wants the player to do in a system. Now the pro has a system but it more freelance style a play. That why Giles never look good at Duke beside never play hardly because he never was use to his strength plus the system wasnt right for him. Now this combine and invidual workout might show Giles and others about there overall skills they got.

 

Right now my picks are at 15 Justin Jackson at 20 Giles at 26 Hart.

 

If the Blazers could get Jackson at #15, that would be a very good start and allow you to take more of a chance with picks #20 and #26.

 

Definite NO to Bell. Small and skinny undersized PF with the skills of a C.

 

OG or Justin Jackson at 15, Justin Patton at 20, and Semi or Caleb Swanigan at 26 would be a very successful draft imo. I think a pick is going to be moved or one foreign guy chosen though. If, for some reason, we pick up a 2nd rounder I would look at Lessort, Jeanne, Motley or P.J. Dozier.

Man this is a deep draft. Any of those 2nd round guys wouldn't be horrible at 26.

 

Man, Tacko Fall should marry Jordan Bell and change his name to Tacko Bell.