Statistics don't lie..... Wade is better shooter than Kobe. Why? Shaq. Kobe was dumb to let him go. Kobe has had great success...The key word is HAD. Sorry, but unless some great players decide to come to the lakers...they are DONE. A great player is measured by how he brings his whole team up, not by individual stats. Anyway, it was a great game and very entertaining on Christmas
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunky420:</div><div class="quote_post">Statistics don't lie..... Wade is better shooter than Kobe. Why? Shaq.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunky420:</div><div class="quote_post">A great player is measured by how he brings his whole team up, not by individual stats.</div> Not by individual stats? But stats don't lie...about what? I sense conflicting statements...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">Not by individual stats? But stats don't lie...about what? I sense conflicting statements...</div> There is no debating that Wade is shooting better than Kobe. Numbers don't lie. 50% Vs. 39%
No not conflicting...I was making a comment on the shooting percentage of Kobe and Wade, because someone else brought it up. Also, i was making a point that the stats don't really matter do they? Kobe probably could end up with the top scoring honors this year, but his team will not win in the playoffs. Why, "A great player is measured by how he brings his whole team up, not by individual stats."
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Real Deal:</div><div class="quote_post">No, I'm not a mod. I'm a team leader...and that doesn't make me any different than anyone else on here, and that's not the reason. The reason why you don't want to argue this point with me is because I've already been through this many times, and you are no different than those that I've already debated this issue(s) with. Unless you have all of your information gathered and you're ready to go 5-10 pages on the topic, then don't try and stir up a debate with me about Kobe Bryant.</div> Well it depends what your argument is, are you one of them Kobe lovers who think he is the best ever? If then I dont know what you can write for 10 pages about Kobe except, hes the best ok? Now if u dont stop arguing, im telling mommy! Now if you argue Kobe is a top 25 player in the league i cant disagree, if you argue that he has the potential of being a top 10 player, i cant disagree either. Please let me know how you see kobe in your mind
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan:</div><div class="quote_post">There is no debating that Wade is shooting better than Kobe. Numbers don't lie. 50% Vs. 39%</div> Read again. I know he's a better shooter...that's nice. The point was that the two statements were conflicting each other. First he said that stats don't lie, and that Wade is a better shooter...but then he killed that statement by saying that a great player isn't measured by individual stats. In other words, the shooting percentage is irrelevant to this debate now. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting ctp005:</div><div class="quote_post">Well it depends what your argument is, are you one of them Kobe lovers who think he is the best ever? If then I dont know what you can write for 10 pages about Kobe except, hes the best ok? Now if u dont stop arguing, im telling mommy! Now if you argue Kobe is a top 25 player in the league i cant disagree, if you argue that he has the potential of being a top 10 player, i cant disagree either. Please let me know how you see kobe in your mind </div> Kobe is a top five player, definitely below Garnett and Duncan. He's the best SG in the league right now. And I think nearly everyone can agree with that. If you don't believe me, go search for the thread in the NBA Basketball section that lists the top players in the league, and you'll see for yourself. This thread is about the Christmas game. If you want to debate that Kobe is not a top 10 player, or has the potential to be ....then please find the appropriate thread for it.
Not it is not my intentions to stir up any emotions here but i would just like to voice my opinions about kobe. Any respect i had for him coming into this game was lost after watching it. It seeemed EVERY time he came up the floor. He dribbled for 10 seconds then drove and tried to hog the show. Now he may have a legitiment excuse for doiing so, in that he is a tremendous athlete. But basketball is a team sport. And based on what i saw today, he has yet to realize that. None the less, great game.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 94ftOfTherapy:</div><div class="quote_post">Not it is not my intentions to stir up any emotions here but i would just like to voice my opinions about kobe. Any respect i had for him coming into this game was lost after watching it. It seeemed EVERY time he came up the floor. He dribbled for 10 seconds then drove and tried to ho the show. Now he may have a legitiment excuse for doiing so, in that he is a tremendous athlete. But basketball is a team sport. And based on what i saw today, he has yet to realize that. None the less, great game.</div> Lamar Odom - 24 pts Chucky Atkins - 12 pts Chris Mihm - 11 pts Kobe had 6 assists...more than everyone but Atkins (which is a shocker, really) and Wade. Otherwise, Kobe is averaging a career high in assists. As I skimmed over the game again (since I recorded it), Kobe had 9 turnovers. Three of those were perfect passes to Mihm that were fumbled...right under the hoop. One was for Mihm on a screen...where Shaq pulled up to guard Kobe, and Kobe threw a bounce pass to Mihm, who was late getting there. That's four. The Heat had five guys in double figures...the Lakers had four, with Jumaine Jones close to it with 9 points. Kobe shared the ball, as usual...but since the Lakers lost the game, nothing else matters now...and Kobe is, once again, the easy target.
well those six assists are nice. but its pretty easy to grab 6 assist when th balls in your hands 90% of the time
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 94ftOfTherapy:</div><div class="quote_post">well those six assists are nice. but its pretty easy to grab 6 assist when th balls in your hands 90% of the time</div> But let's not forget, Kobe is (I believe) 5th in assists...leading all SG's with the exception of Wade, who was actually a PG for the first part of the season so far. And, Kobe's no PG either. And, he's playing more minutes than anyone. I'd like to see a PG that can actually help Kobe out...then I could be happy, and Kobe's shooting would go up a little more and maybe the Lakers could win bigger games. Otherwise, he's a one-man show out there...with guys like Odom and Butler being inconsistent all the time (not just inconsistencies in offense). Also, Shaq got MANY touches in his early years in LA...yet he never got 4 assists per game, either. Just because the ball is there doesn't mean you rack up assists. It takes two to tango.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RealDeal:</div><div class="quote_post">And, Kobe's no PG either. And, he's playing more minutes than anyone. I'd like to see a PG that can actually help Kobe out...then I could be happy, and Kobe's shooting would go up a little more and maybe the Lakers could win bigger games. Otherwise, he's a one-man show out there...with guys like Odom and Butler being inconsistent all the time (not just inconsistencies in offense). Also, Shaq got MANY touches in his early years in LA...yet he never got 4 assists per game, either. Just because the ball is there doesn't mean you rack up assists. It takes two to tango.</div>Well kobe might as well be listed as a point gaurd. He brought the ball up just as much if not more than the real PG. And yes he is a one man show, my point exactly and it makes me sick. Theres also no need to bring Shaq into this because i dislike him as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 94ftOfTherapy:</div><div class="quote_post">Well kobe might as well be listed as a point gaurd. He brought the ball up just as much if not more than the real PG. And yes he is a one man show, my point exactly and it makes me sick. Theres also no need to bring Shaq into this because i dislike him as well.</div> Well, the reason why I brought Shaq into it was just because he got alot of touches. I could've said Jordan...who has gotten over 7 APG only once in his career...and over 6 APG only once after his first championship...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 94ftOfTherapy:</div><div class="quote_post">lol are you trying to tell me kobe is a better passer than jordan lmao.</div> No...I'm just exposing the flaw that involves ball-handling vs. how many assists you "should have" as a ball-handler. It's not always about how great of a passer you are. Kobe can throw a terrible pass, but it can connect for an assist. However, Kobe can throw a beautiful pass, and then the teammate can airball the shot... It takes more than just Kobe to be a great passer. If Magic had guys with hands like Samaki Walker, he'd have a helluva time getting them to hold onto his passes...and that wouldn't be his fault, but it would show in his statistics. Just as an example...compare Shaq to Mihm. Both are centers and have big hands...Shaq's are bigger...but the difference between the two is that Shaq has soft hands, and Mihm doesn't. Shaq could catch passes one-handed, good or bad, in mid-air for the dunk...or just picking it out of the air before he backs in. Mihm can't do that. Kobe's fault? Not always...but it seems that way.
Yes, I know the Lakers lost...we did give it our all, we were there until the very end...the VERY end...but we came short. However, I just wanted to say this... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Plus Wade will not shoot under 50%... it's virtually impossible, and if he does it's like 10-21 like yesterday vs. Sacto, not 6 for 17.. that's complete bs. He hasn't shot that bad all year, not even against the leagues best defender Artest last year in the playoffs, I don't think just having Kobe on him will make him shoot 6 for 17... Artest is a better defender and couldn't even guard him.</div> Dwyane Wade (today's game) Predicted Shooting: 6-17 shooting, 35% Actual Shooting: 10/26 shooting, 38%
Why are people even mentioning Jordan in this thread?? Wade was simply phenomenal in this game, he took over in OT, and that's where Bryant should have thrived with the Heat having absolutely no post presence. Kobe was driving to the hole when Shaq was there, yet he stopped after Shaq was gone? Or he would drive to the hole and kick to Jumaine Jones who'd take up a wild three and miss. Jesus. I watched the ending of this game unfold and as much Kobe DID try to steal the show, if his teammates would have showed up then it would have made all the difference in the world. But I'm not just blaming Kobe or Jones (who played absolutely horrid defense on Wade), I'm blaming Rudy T and the Lakers defense down the stretch. It just collpased. This game shouldn't have even gone into overtime. With Shaq on the bench, this game looked all wrapped but again, poor defense and even poorer execution down the stretch cost them this game. Like I had predicted, it was Wade who was the silent assasin and ultilmate difference maker in this game and i give him props for that. One thing though, the Lakers need to stop hoisting up three pointers with such inconsistent shooters. They had 19 attempts....at the HALF. What's up with that? It's one thing to hoist it when you're hot but when you're cold and you still shoot it and it converts into long rebounds and fastbreaking attempts then you need to stop it. Is Rudy T even doing any coaching out there? Also, about that handshake. That had me laughing. That made Shaq look pretty bad, just ignoring the guy . Very "professional". All in all, an amazing game, well worth the hype and even though Shaq might act like he wasn't caught up into it, it effected both players and both wanted to win. Unfortunetly, the Lakers didn't and I hope Lamar and Kobe can continue to mesh well together in later games like they did today. As for the Heat, congratulations and I hope your win streak continues. And please, both Lakers fans, Heat fans and Kobe dislikers (they deserve thier own title), keep it mature. Also, someone mentioned why Kobe didn't pass it to Jumaine Jones with 2 seconds left on the clock and the game on the line...First off, Jumaine Jones is not even a 3 point shooter. Secondly, ther's two seconds on the clock, the area was crowded and thirdly, who would you rather have taking a last second shot? All in all, a good game, lets leave it at that. I feel sorry for Kobe because no matter how spectacular of a game he plays, it'll go back to Ray Allen's thoery of "you can do it yourself, but can you win with your team?"....Yet another blow to Kobe's direction. Shaq wins this one. End of case.
Jordan was brought up not for a comparison as far as games go, but strictly to make a point about ball touches vs. assists/passing. Nothing else.
Wade was injured. His knee was still bothering him from the collision with Doug Christie, if you hadn't heard the commentators talking about it. I could see the difference it made in his game with his knee injury.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Wade was injured. His knee was still bothering him from the collision with Doug Christie, if you hadn't heard the commentators talking about it. I could see the difference it made in his game with his knee injury.</div> He sure didn't seem injured in OT. Kobe is said to be 85% as well. He's still got foot problems. And Shaq was having calf problems, but the announcers said that Van Gundy admitted it was not affecting his game... So what?
Fun Game Kobe's team reminds me a lot of T-Mac's situation in Orlando last year. While Kobe is holding the team together much better than T-mac did, he can't do it alone. Kobe is not a point guard, but he's taking on that role for his team. IMO he should let a true point guard drive the lane and create space for him. Having the offense flow with everyone in their natural positions works much better. Kobe should not be avg that many assists. It seems like a good stat but you want his SP% to be up and a PG to be setting him up with the open shots. I was very impressed with Chris Mihm's performance. I thought he played a good game. I would like to see more of a two man game between Kobe and Mihm in less intense situations. Since Mihm isn't getting the double team maybe he can start crashing the basket taking away some focus from Kobe, which will allow Kobe to settle into his game more. It seemed like Kobe can create for himself, but when his drives are stopped He's already chewed up too much time and the other Lakers aren't ready for passes. On the Miami side its been the same all year. They have consistent play and showed it. Shaq said at the beginning of the season that this was Wayde's team. Shaq's playing his role, which right now he's the best at, and the supporting cast is filling in the cracks. Great Game I loved it, and wanted a Double OT
