<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I saw some1 post in it earlier...some1 was viewing it or posting in it or something</div> Why would you bump it for that reason only though?
Whatever...Who has the better team now, Miami or Dallas? I'd give it to Dallas, because Shaq, Zo, and the Glove are a year older, and Devin Harris is improving vastily.
But Wade and Haslem are a year older and improved as well. And you still have to give the experience edge to the Heat as well. AND who's a better coach? Pat Riley or Avery Johnson? Maybe Avery will be a Riley level coach one day but until then he has a lot to prove.I personally think that the Heat are better, but I'm a little subjective. I think that no matter what at this point a playoff series would go to 7 games no matter what. If either team won at that point I don't think anyone would be surprised.
I agree. Also the refs helped Miami last year and I don't think they'll help them as much this year in that series. Hopefully not.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Oct 14 2006, 08:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree. Also the refs helped Miami last year and I don't think they'll help them as much this year in that series. Hopefully not.</div>That series isn't happening unless the Heat move to the West. :shifty2: I don't think they'll get as many calls either. It was a great story last year with Alonzo, Payton, Pat Riley coming back with Shaq and a rising star in Wade and Stern got his ratings. Now the Suns should get the calls. They give the NBA good ratings and what better story is there than Amare coming back after microfracture and leading his team to the championship? As for which team is better now, I think the same one that was the better team last year, the Mavericks....I know you hate me HeatFan, sorry. :winkglasses:
Look, there is no such thing as "all the calls." Even if you find certain calls questionable the way basketball goes makes it nearly impossible for just reffing to throw games one way or another. The Mavs collapsed, end of story.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (falconman1130 @ Oct 14 2006, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Look, there is no such thing as "all the calls." Even if you find certain calls questionable the way basketball goes makes it nearly impossible for just reffing to throw games one way or another. The Mavs collapsed, end of story.</div>A better word is majority of calls and a suns fan agrees with me along with many others. Miami got the majority of calls in 2 very close games.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Oct 14 2006, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>A better word is majority of calls and a suns fan agrees with me along with many others. Miami got the majority of calls in 2 very close games.</div>Game 1: Heat- 25 PFs; Mavs- 18 PFsGame 2: Heat- 23 PFs; Mavs- 28 PFsGame 3: Heat- 23 PFs; Mavs- 29 PFsGame 4: Heat- 26 PFs; Mavs- 24 PFsGame 5: Heat- 26 PFs; Mavs- 38 PFsGame 6: Heat- 23 PFs; Mavs- 28 PFsSo 2 games where the Heat outfouled the Mavs (Games 1 & 4) and 1 game where there was an actually substantial difference (Game 5). IF there was something to complain about it would just be game 5 (12 foul difference). But again, did the Heat blame the refs after losing game 1? Or did they suck it up and keep going?The Heat are a veteren team. Younger players often foul more. AND D-Wade's game has a lot of penetration and slashing, so he's automatically going to get more fouls called for him than a jump-shooter like Jason Terry.So they can blame refereeing all they want, but the real reason the Mavs lost was because they allowed themselves to not focus on the games mentally and listen to their boss Mark Cuban and blame something outside themselves. Even Dirk Nowitzki after the season admitted they focused too much on the reffing. If they had gotten the job done defensively maybe they would have gotten their parade...
They had a right to complain about game 3 also. The comeback the Heat did in game 3 could not be possible if the refs didn't help them out at the end. Games 1 and 4 were not close so it didn't matter what the foul count was.
The Mavericks got the majority of the calls in the SA series so it works both ways. Besides game 7, I remember plenty of influential calls that went the Mavericks way. Its not like the refs are intending to give the majority of the calls to one team. It just happens sometimes. Its apart of the game and all teams have to adapt to the style that the referees are going about their job that certain night. If the refs are consistent the whole night, you cant complain. Whether the refs were consistent in the Mavs and Heat series I have no idea, but what I do know is that they didnt favor one team. And the only thing that a foul count from each team shows is the aggresivness by the other team. Dwyane Wade got to the hole and drew fouls.....he deserved to get those, and everytime the official called a fould agaisnt the Mavs when he drove to the basket, 99 percent of the time it was a foul. Also, the Heat have shaq who gets fouled more than any player in the league. When you have one of the best drivers in the league who draws a great deal of contact, and the best or 2nd best center in the league who draws a countless amount of double teams, you are going to have fouls and bad calls. You just have to deal with them.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Oct 14 2006, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>They had a right to complain about game 3 also. The comeback the Heat did in game 3 could not be possible if the refs didn't help them out at the end. Games 1 and 4 were not close so it didn't matter what the foul count was.</div>Of course you don't think it matters what the foul count was (actually game 1 was 10 points apart, so 5 fouls the other way = Heat win, so why didn't we hear Heat fans complain?) because in those games the Mavs got most of the fouls called their way.The comeback in game 3 happened BECAUSE D-WADE DROVE TO THE HOLE, instead of settling for jumpshots.In basketball it's almost impossible for reffing to screw one team over.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (falconman1130 @ Oct 15 2006, 02:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Of course you don't think it matters what the foul count was (actually game 1 was 10 points apart, so 5 fouls the other way = Heat win, so why didn't we hear Heat fans complain?) because in those games the Mavs got most of the fouls called their way.The comeback in game 3 happened BECAUSE D-WADE DROVE TO THE HOLE, instead of settling for jumpshots.In basketball it's almost impossible for reffing to screw one team over.</div>Did you see the Laker vs. Kings series in 2002? That had Stern written all over it. Your generalizations like Wade always went to the hole and Dirk always settled for jumpers was NOT the case. I am not going to watch those painful games again but I know when the refs are favoring a team and that was the case. Wade had the most freethrows in nba finals history. More than Jordan or Chamberlin or even Shaq which is hard to believe. :ranting:<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BALLAHOLLIC @ Oct 15 2006, 02:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Why are we still talking about this 4 months later?</div>Someone bumped this thread a few days ago out of nowhere and after that we somehow got in this conversation again. :thumbdn1:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mavsfan1000 @ Oct 14 2006, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Did you see the Laker vs. Kings series in 2002? That had Stern written all over it. Your generalizations like Wade always went to the hole and Dirk always settled for jumpers was NOT the case.</div>Nope, wasn't a basketball fan then. Also did I say Dirk settled for jumpers? I didn't say ANYONE did. My only statement was that Wade didn't.What I do know is that in basketball the refs choosing which way the game will go is too difficult. How many possessions are there per game? In football, soccer, or baseball where teams score only a few times a game a call can be crucial, but in basketball where EACH TEAM has about 100 possessions (give or take) refs don't have that sort of power.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (falconman1130 @ Oct 15 2006, 03:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Nope, wasn't a basketball fan then. Also did I say Dirk settled for jumpers? I didn't say ANYONE did. My only statement was that Wade didn't.What I do know is that in basketball the refs choosing which way the game will go is too difficult. How many possessions are there per game? In football, soccer, or baseball where teams score only a few times a game a call can be crucial, but in basketball where EACH TEAM has about 100 possessions (give or take) refs don't have that sort of power.</div>There are 100 possessions per game but most games are decided by 10 points or less and I consider each foul 1-2 points loss for the team that got it. If there are 10 bad calls and one team gets 7 and the other gets 3 and that is a 4-8 point margin. So if one team loses by 5 points and the refs give the other team less bad calls than the refs possibly decided the game. Hope you understood that. lol
Well then the Heat should have won game 1, because they had 7 more fouls and lost by 10.But they didn't say so afterward did they?With so many possessions it's impossible to put a loss on any one thing.
The bigger the lead one team wins by the harder it is to guess if the calls made the difference. Anything 5 points or less are more likely to be effected by the refs. The end of games sometimes trick the person on how close the game was but I do remember very well how close games 3 and 5 were.
Yeah, like even though Game 6 was close I remember watching it and the last 10 minutes or so the Heat had it in the bag.Blaming the refs is just an excuse for a team not wanting to admit they lost. It's over, it's done, if they wanna prove themselves a good team they can step it up next year.
If it makes you feel better I doubt the Mavs will collapse like they did again. They go up 2-0 on anyone, they got it.Dirk would be too pissed to do otherwise.
