Mike Conley? WTF?! (Trade rumor)

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by illmatic99, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I trust Pritchard when it comes to the moves he makes, but I don't really trust him (or any great GM) when it comes to public comments about what he plans to do. Of course he says that he likes the team the way it is, he hardly helps his trade position by suggesting that he really wants to unload a player.

    I'm not saying that he definitely will make a move (though I'd be very surprised if he didn't make a fairly significant deal by the trade deadline), but his comments are probably no real indication about what will happen.
     
  2. RoyToy

    RoyToy Clown Town

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    This makes me believe the deal is going to happen now. KP's words can't be trusted.

    He's a smart guy and one of the best at what he does, but I just don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
     
  3. alex42083

    alex42083 Thanks Brandon

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    I bet KP and Nate and the gang have had several discussions on the potential logjam on this team when we're at full health.
    I agree with Minstrel and RoyToy.. KP will never tell the media the truth about what's going on. It's not a slight to his character or anything, it's just you don't want to reveal what you're doing to the rest of the league. I have full trust in whatever KP plans on doing... if he is planning on doing anything to consolidate.
     
  4. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I'm not saying that there's a correlation, but it seems odd that in the last few years...

    Telfair (and this is from OLive...I wasn't on BBF) was lambasted by a bunch of the posters there who hated his game. He was traded by KP for Roy.
    Zach was lambasted by many as being a black hole and not a good teammate and was bandied around in rumors for about a year. He was traded by KP.
    Jack was lambasted by many as not being able to play PG for us. He was bandied about in rumors for about a year. He was traded by KP.

    In each of these there was a vocal minority (and in some cases, still is) who state that there will be repercussions for giving up good players for seemingly not very much, or giving up people that we'd rue in the future. (Or converesly, that the players we got back suck).

    Right now, Outlaw and Frye and Webster (to a smaller extent) meet the qualifications above. I personally think that KP signing Webs to a long, reasonable deal mitigate him being shipped out of town. But I am pretty sure KP has a target, and we'll either see the target on our team at the break, or signed this summer in FA.
     
  5. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this trade is to do this...

    Clear a logjam and consolidate.
    Get Oden a friend that can motivate him and make him happier since he is one of our cornerstones.
    And, he would just sit on the end of the bench and not play, which would help Nate in playing time, and has a pretty good contract.

    So to sum it up, maybe he wants to consolidate, but instead of getting an expiring that would sit on the bench to help with the logjam, he wants to get Oden's friend?

    IDK, but its something to think about. I don't want him, but meh. In KP i trust, and always will.

    When Webster comes back, my best guess is he is the backup SF and gets Frye's minutes and a little of Outlaws to put him at around 18mpg until he earns more PT... for the playoffs we just see who is playing the best and gives us the best chance to win and preferably cut it down to an 8 man rotation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  6. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    IDK that we ever go to an 8-man, but maybe.

    Other than that, I agree with most of your post.

    And aside from being Greg's BFF, he actually has a little bit of game. Not coming out right now, but he was decent starting last year.
     
  7. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    He does have game, but not enough for PT. And if we DID trade Sergio or Blake, he would be fighting with Bayless for a couple minutes, and I think Bayless is better, and thought he outperformed him in preseason, and innhialated him in comparison during summer league. Bayless got 11, 3 and 3 in the games w/ consistent minutes during the preseason, and of course got 30, 3, and 2 in summer league.

    But this trade would allow more minutes for a Rudy/Roy backcourt as well, and hopefully give us a 9-10 man rotation for good, which we could trim down to 9 during the playoffs.

    Don't think its a good trade, but this might be another way to look at it. This could allow us to ease in Bayless with 5ish mpg.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  8. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Highly, highly unlikely. If Conley is not a real player and not a significant upgrade (or even an upgrade at all) over what we have then I can envision almost no situation where he's starting ahead of Blake, then he probably ends up unhappy and vents to his good buddy Greg, which runs the risk of having a more negative impact on Oden's psyche than a positive.

    I don't see a lot of logic in this Conley rumor, especially with both Blake and Sergio (plus Roy too) playing really solid ball at the one, and while I have no doubt that KP fields and initiates trade talk all the time, and makes public statements that are completely contrary, this time I actually believe KP when he says this trade is dead -- not all trades, but this particular one.
     
  9. graybeard

    graybeard Member

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    Here's a trade with Memphis that makes sense for both teams. Hell, I'd even throw in $3 million and our 1st round pick next year. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=3195~2794~3417~2754&teams=22~22~29~29&te=&cash=

    The Grizz need Frye more than Travis. Fry would be their starting PF and backup center. Then they can let Darko go back to Europe where he belongs. Bayless would be a great scorer next to Mayo. We get our pg of the future. Win/Win. Let Warrick walk when his contract expire next year and we bring Joel Freeland over next year to be our 3rd string center.... I like it, what do you think? It also means KP wasn't lying when he said Outlaw isn't going anywhere... and explains why KP was having such a long talk with Bayless. I think Bayless is demanding more playing time, we just haven't heard about it yet.
     
  10. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    The big difference is of course that Telfair was supposed to be the PG of the future, later Jack was supposed to be the PG of the future and Zach was the corner-stone of the team.

    In comparison - No one ever thought of Frye as the PF of the future, Outlaw is a backup and spark-plug/instant offense off the bench and no one ever thought he would be the #1 SF or PF on the team.

    The only one that seems to be suffering from the correlation you mention is Webster who used to be the SG of the future (until Roy erased any of these thoughts) and later SF of the future (where Batum is clearly the leader in the house).

    I just can't imagine Travis being dealt unless it brings us a real stud (since it is so hard to find another athletic freak like him that can take a game over and is willing to come off the bench). I still say that the ones most likely to be dealt are Webster (redundant with Batum's emergence) and either Blake or Sergio (One of them will probably be the long-term backup PG and the other stands in the way of Bayless).

    Frye is also easy to replace - since we can just slide Outlaw to the backup 4 position.

    I can't see the Blazers dealing Blake this year unless it is for a stud starting PG. I doubt they will deal Sergio this year - since he helps Rudy so much.

    So, my gut feeling is that they Blazers will be more willing to trade Frye/Webster with the Contract - and will consider Outlaw only for an amazing return.
     
  11. B-Roy

    B-Roy If it takes months

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    I wouldn't do that, and I especially wouldn't add a 1st round pick. Bayless was a better prospect that Conley out of College, and I still believe he is. Also, after that trade, who becomes the PF? Outlaw or Warrick? Because Warrick is definitely more of a power forward, and is more adept in the post, where as Travis is better shooting long 2s and 3s. I would assume that Travis takes over the backup PF spot, but watching Travis guard opposing PFs just make me cringe. There's no way you can expect him to do that night in and night out, and we can't just go zone every time Travis is in the game.
     
  12. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I like this deal even less. I think Bayless is a much, much better talent than Conley Jr. I wasn't very impressed by Conley in college and he certainly hasn't proven me wrong in the NBA yet. I don't think he doesn't anything well by NBA standards. Bayless has the potential to be a very good defender, slasher and shooter at the NBA level. And a decent passer (not great for a point guard, but less important with Roy in the backcourt).
     
  13. graybeard

    graybeard Member

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    Any way you slice it, Bayless is a sg in a pg body. Kp likes players that are tall for their position, he has said so. We've had multiple threads in the past that with documentation that shows that shooting can be learned, but distributing the ball is a skill that you either have or don't. Bayless is very probably never going to get many assists. He just doesn't see the floor like a true pg. With Roy, Rudy and Martel, we just don't need another undersized shooting guard. In order to get talent, you have to give up talent.
     
  14. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    And if Bayless plays point guard, he'll have excellent size for his position. He'd share distribution duties with Roy.

    Nothing currently suggests that Conley is "talent," at the NBA level.
     
  15. MrJayremmie

    MrJayremmie Well-Known Member

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    Very good point. My post was more of a "from a different perspective" post.

    Conley is our PG of the future? I think Sergio would be a better option than him...

    This is debatable. (don't want to argue right now)
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2008
  16. graybeard

    graybeard Member

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    You've got to be kidding me, right?
     
  17. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Any way you slice it Bayless is an unknown quantity.

    While I think it's true that he's never going to be a Steve Nash clone, I'm not sure that's the type of point guard this team needs long term. If you are looking for similar talents I tend to see Bayless as potentially being sort of like Mo Williams with better defense. I'm not saying that Brandon is on the same level as Lebron James, but they are both sort of point forwards in the half-court and their best compliment seems to be a point guard who can hit the open shot and play off-ball for stretches of the game.

    Frankly, (longterm) Bayless is probably a bigger threat to Blake than Sergio (who I feel is finally carving out a niche as a change of tempo, backup point guard) and I have a feeling that in the second half of the year we'll be seeing more and more of B-Rex playing Robin to Roy's Batman.
     
  18. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Look at his numbers.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=3195

    It's not like he's being forced into a "spot minutes" situation; he's getting 25+ a game and has done nothing to separate himself from Lowry and Crittenton. He's a poor outside shooter, and is not generating many assists for his teammates.

    At this point the burden of proof is on you to demonstate how he is an NBA talent, not vice versa.
     
  19. BrianFromWA

    BrianFromWA Editor in Chief Staff Member Editor in Chief

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    I am by no means on the Conley jock, but the dude started at PG for 90% of the games he was healthy for (46-53, iirc). He averaged 9/4/3 with a steal. His FG% was poor, and his 3pt% was maybe average.

    All-Star? Nope. But I'm not sure you can just dismiss a rookie PG starting in the NBA.
     
  20. graybeard

    graybeard Member

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    It isn't about proof, it's about having an eye for talent.

    The guys who are looking for proof were the guys who were bitching about Martel being a bust and not worth the 6th pick two years ago. They couldn't see the talent or foresee how that talent would project into the future. Same with Sergio, he was a bust to some up until this year. And Outlaw, how many were thinking he was low iq and a waste of roster space up until he started busting out the past 2 years. These people have no skills in talent evaluation and can only see what's in front of them at the moment. Same guys saying we should trade LMA because he was soft in the last game.
     

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