Militia takes over Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters

That's not a useful statement. It may be independent, but it is one-sided.

I wasn't a big fan of 9/11 terrorism laws either. But the law is the law, and that one is very clear. You either change it or live with it. Whining about it doesn't help.

barfo

 

Pretty sure the BLM agents and firefighters were not on the east coast.

You make a good argument for giving the land back to the Native Americans, I guess.

barfo

 

civil disobedience. Without it, blacks would still be forced to sit in the back of the bus.

The law is the law. Not if it's a really bad law. Or not if it's abused by zealous prosecutors.

 

Pretty sure the BLM agents and firefighters don't make the rules.

I'm fine with giving the land back to the Indians. Or as reparations for slavery. Or simply to the states to use as they see fit.

 

There's no evidence the law was abused in this case. They were guilty, there was a minimum sentence.

That said, I agree the minimum sentence law is bad.

barfo

 

So basically, you don't really give a shit who gets it, as long as the feds lose it.

barfo

 

The Feds have no authority to own the land. Big Brother is not supposed to be Big, government is supposed to be local. The constitution spells out a limited federal government and enumerates (limits) its powers.

Owning land beyond post offices, forts, and roads is a right given to the states, then the people per 10th amendment.

The government only owned land in territories and sold it off or gave it to people (homestead) right up until the time of the civil war and reconstruction. That's why the feds rightly don't own much of the land east of Nebraska.

The constitution didn't magically change to allow federal ownership of 50%+ of the land in the West. What did change were civil rights amendments 13 & 14.

 

The law they were sentenced under is the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.

barfo

 

Like I said, if you only consider the constitution and none of the court cases since then, then you might be right.

barfo

 

Terrorism?

Just wow.

Overzealous, as I said.

The men aren't terrorists, they're ranchers.

 

I've already provided several court cases I'm sure you find wrong or unconstitutional. If the court makes bad rulings, civil disobedience is the only action that is left.

Courts ruled sodomy laws were legal. People did it anyway because the law matters less than the individual's natural rights. Doing so was civil disobedience.

When government is tyrannical, the people should resist. That's what this country has been about since the Declaration of Independence.

 

No one said they were terrorists.

It's just the name of the law.

barfo

 

Sure. Unfortunately, the government owning land is not tyranny.

barfo

 

Like "emergency " stimulus bill?

I don't think so.

Your kind calls it ...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/03/3735647/malheur-lake-oregon-militia-explainer/

the federal anti-terrorism law that prosecutors used to punish the fires includes mandatory minimum sentences of 5 years for fires that damage public property but cause no injury or death.

The federal judge that heard the case gave appropriate sentences for the act. The overzealous prosecutors didn't have to appeal.

 

The feds not being good neighbors is tyranny.

Hundreds of ranchers showed up in support of these guys. If government was so great, nobody would have shown up.

 

Oregon Farm Bureau loves government.

http://www.oregonfb.org/2015/10/07/...ng-steve-dwight-hammond-years-federal-prison/

Statement by Oregon Farm Bureau President Barry Bushue on sentencing of Steve and Dwight Hammond to five years in federal prison
October 7, 2015

SALEM, OREGON, October 7, 2015 – “Today two Oregon ranchers were sentenced to five years in federal prison under terrorism statutes for setting preventative fires on their own land. We are gravely disappointed at this outcome.

Elderly Harney County rancher Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, a former OFB Board member and Harney County Farm Bureau president, have already served time in federal prison for their mistakes and paid their debt to society for the less-than-140 acres of BLM land that was accidentally impacted by the fires.

This is an example of gross government overreach, and the public should be outraged.

Today’s verdict is also hypocritical given BLM’s own harm to public and private grazing lands, which goes without consequence. It is unjust. OFB worked on this case quietly behind the scenes with BLM through the spring and summer. That diligent diplomatic effort was fruitless.

This prosecution will have a chilling effect across the West among ranchers, foresters, and others who rely on federal allotments and permits. It will harm the positive relationship many ranchers and organizations have worked to forge with the BLM, and undermine the cooperative spirit most ranchers have brought to the bureau in helping the health of the range.

Please join Farm Bureau and declare your support for Steve and Dwight Hammond. Join over 2,600 other citizens from across the country and show BLM that this extreme abuse of power will not go unnoticed and is shameful. Sign the petition at www.savethehammonds.com. This must never happen again.

OFB will continue to work to bring public and policymaker attention to this case.”

 

"People bad, government good."

-- barfo