I'd like to see Millen stay. No matter how bad the Packers are it's always nice to know the Lions will keep us out of the basement. One thing the Lions need to find is an identity. They havn't had a legitimate starting QB for quit a few years and yet they've never been good on D either. At least most teams have one side of the ball to build on but I'm not sure what that is for the Lions right now. Although if they could find a QB to compliment Jones and Williams they could have a top 10 offence
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>In the eight years before Matt Millen (1993-2000), the Raiders made the playoffs 2 times out of 8 years and had two losing and three 8-8 seasons. Like I said, not as good as the Lions were before Matt Millen.</div> The Raiders went 1-1 in the 1993 playoffs, losing to Buffalo in the AFC Championship. Millen was hired just before the 2001 season. The Raiders went 1-1 in the 2000 playoffs, going 12-4, but losing to the Ravens in the AFC Championship game. The Raiders were also in the playoffs for the first two seasons of Millen's GM job, and went to the Superbowl after the 2002 season.
Am I missing something or what does Millen's tenure have to do with the Raiders? I'm not going to argue Ted Thompson's success based on what the Bronco's are doing during his time. Fact is can anyone say the Lions are better now then when Millen took over and I think that's a clear NO.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CanadianFavreFan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Am I missing something or what does Millen's tenure have to do with the Raiders?</div> Some people can't handle being proven wrong so they change the subject. The Lions were in fact contenders before Matt Millen took over. He's destroyed what was a team that was making the playoffs more often than not in the decade before he was hired. The Ford's figured Millen was a winner at every level of football he was ever involvled with and was a part of four Super Bowl wins so he could bring that winning playoff past with him. They were WAY off on their plan. They need to Cut and Run!
Maybe should start a new thread but if Millen would finally be gone who would be a guy Lions fans would like to see take over. Mind you Lions fans probably aren't the ones to ask cause they'll accept anyone with open arms right now. I'll tell you if you want to get to greatness agin you need to get Ron Wolf back at it. Man is a genius!
This is awful news for all NFC North fans. :crying: Seriously though this is currently Matt Millen's team. He's been their since 2001. It's his fault the team is in this mess. Before Millen, then blame the other owners, GM's, and coaches but this is the Matt Millen era with the Lions and all the players on this roster was brought in by Matt Millen. He had numerous high Draft picks and blew most of them. He's on his 3rd Head Coach and the team still can't get going. It's definitely Millen's fault for the structure of this team. Here's to the Lions hiring Joe Theisman out of the booth as their next GM.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CanadianFavreFan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Am I missing something or what does Millen's tenure have to do with the Raiders?</div> Some people can't handle being proven wrong so they change the subject. The Lions were in fact contenders before Matt Millen took over. He's destroyed what was a team that was making the playoffs more often than not in the decade before he was hired. The Ford's figured Millen was a winner at every level of football he was ever involvled with and was a part of four Super Bowl wins so he could bring that winning playoff past with him. They were WAY off on their plan. They need to Cut and Run!</div> Zack, BF1 and I were only talking about millen and the lions before you went off on a tangent about comparing playoff records between the team that I root for and the team that BF1 roots for. You also (conveniently) chose to frame in the time to 1993-2000. Why did you do that? I was merely riding your tangental thread to its conclusion. Anyway, the lions were never contenders during that period of time as the packers were always head and shoulders above everyone in that division and went to 2 superbowls during that period. With Free Agency and the salary cap in effect, the Lions were just another mediocre team in a huge cesspool. going 9-7 and getting booted from the playoffs in the first round 6 consecutive times and living in the shadow of Brett Favre's packers is not contending. The most damning statistic, winning only one playoff game in 50 years is not contending. No matter how much you polish a turd, its still a turd.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CanadianFavreFan)</div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe should start a new thread but if Millen would finally be gone who would be a guy Lions fans would like to see take over. Mind you Lions fans probably aren't the ones to ask cause they'll accept anyone with open arms right now. I'll tell you if you want to get to greatness agin you need to get Ron Wolf back at it. Man is a genius!</div> Tom Heckert, the GM of the Eagles has been rumored the past few weeks... Actually, before the rumors of the actual firing even surfaced... Also, Tom Lewand from our own FO has been mentioned too (He works with the Cap from what I understand and I hope that he isn't named)... Its not a question of IF he gets fired, its WHEN but I am positive he won't be with the team at the beginning of FA... As to what the GM has to do with this team losing... Look at how he built the team... 3 WR's in the first rd in consecutive years... I don't necessarily blame him for a few of the busts because it goes with the territory but with only 4 of the 8 playing is ridiculous... (McDougle is gone, BMW doesn't play, Rogers is a pot head and we still rue the day that we passed on Andre Johnson, we all know the Harrington story). I do blame him for the atmosphere in Detroit, I blame him for not being able to bring in good FA for even a visit... I blame him for ignoring our O-line problems... I blame him for ignoring our defense... I blame him for the makeup of this roster period... These are his responsibilities and he failed miserably at them... Oh and about the Pre-Millen era... People you have to understand that when you get beat down year after year you start to long for 8-8.... This attitude is all over Detroit... Ya we didn't do much back then but we were at least respectable and respectable seems like a dream at this point...
I got a call today from Bill Ford(you know him as William Clay Ford, but he instised I call him Bill)....he heard that my family owns a Taurus and an Escort, and figured that since I was a "Ford" kind of guy, I might make a good GM(he also told me "GM" was a dirty word around there)of the lions....during the "interview", he asked me how I might fix the QB situation, and I told him I would want to draft a QB in the 1st round and bring in a young veteran who could teach him how to handle himself in this league....then he asked who I had in mind, and I told him I thought we could get Joey Harrington if we were willing to give up a 2nd round pick....he hung up....some people just arent ready to hear the truth....
[quote name='The Return of the Raider']Zack, BF1 and I were only talking about millen and the lions before you went off on a tangent about comparing playoff records between the team that I root for and the team that BF1 roots for.[/quote] Galvy,Galvy,Galvy ... when proved wrong lie,lie,lie. A typical liberal!:stupid: <u>FOR THE TRUTH READ BELOW</u> [quote name='Zackman'][quote name='BearsFan1'][quote name='The Return of the Raider']So, can we go ahead and blame everything on Millen now? Let's be real, the Lions have been bad for longer than Millen was there.[/quote] Well, the team was 9-7 the season before he took over. Just missed playoffs on a long edinger kick (Just wanted to remind lions fans we made you miss your last shot at playoffs) He stripped the team down to get younger and build back up. Problem was, he got younger, but never built them back up. Well, a problem if you are a lions fan .[/quote] <u>BEFORE MATT MILLEN</u> The fact is the Lions made the playoffs 5 out of 8 years from 1993-2000 and only had two losing seasons. Better than the Bears and the Raiders is my guess. <u>CHICAGO BEARS</u> In the eight years before Matt Millen (1993-2000), the Bears made the playoffs 1 time out of those 8 years and had six losing seasons. This franchise was total crap before Matt Millen was hired by the Lions. <u>OAKLAND RAIDERS</u> In the eight years before Matt Millen (1993-2000), the Raiders made the playoffs 2 times out of 8 years and had two losing and three 8-8 seasons. Like I said, not as good as the Lions were before Matt Millen.[/quote]
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>I got a call today from Bill Ford(you know him as William Clay Ford, but he instised I call him Bill)....he heard that my family owns a Taurus and an Escort, and figured that since I was a "Ford" kind of guy, I might make a good GM(he also told me "GM" was a dirty word around there)of the lions....during the "interview", he asked me how I might fix the QB situation, and I told him I would want to draft a QB in the 1st round and bring in a young veteran who could teach him how to handle himself in this league....then he asked who I had in mind, and I told him I thought we could get Joey Harrington if we were willing to give up a 2nd round pick....he hung up....some people just arent ready to hear the truth....</div> Wow, after he called you he gave me a call and I had to rush him off quick. I had Donna Shalala on the other line at "The U" I told him the miami job was more appealing in that there was more NFL talent on the roster.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>Zack, BF1 and I were only talking about millen and the lions before you went off on a tangent about comparing playoff records between the team that I root for and the team that BF1 roots for.</div> Galvy,Galvy,Galvy ... when proved wrong lie,lie,lie. A typical liberal!:stupid: .</div> <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>the lions were never contenders during that period of time as the packers were always head and shoulders above everyone in that division and went to 2 superbowls during that period. With Free Agency and the salary cap in effect, the Lions were just another mediocre team in a huge cesspool. going 9-7 and getting booted from the playoffs in the first round 6 consecutive times and living in the shadow of Brett Favre's packers is not contending. The most damning statistic, winning only one playoff game in 50 years is not contending. No matter how much you polish a turd, its still a turd.</div> I reiterate.
The Lions were contenders in the 90s? What a joke! I guess if you standard of what you consider being a contender means squeeking into the playoffs with records like 8-8 or 9-7 and losing in the Wildcard round makes a team a contender, then I guess the Pussy Cats were contenders. :thumbsup: (The funny part of this argument is that the time frame picked didn't include the 91 Lions team which went 12-4 and lost to the Redskins in the NFC Championship Game. It would have helped the argument, not much because it was the only legit contender that the Lions fielded, but it would have helped a little.)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Return of the Raider)</div><div class='quotemain'>the lions were never contenders during that period of time as the packers were always head and shoulders above everyone in that division and went to 2 superbowls during that period. With Free Agency and the salary cap in effect, the Lions were just another mediocre team in a huge cesspool. going 9-7 and getting booted from the playoffs in the first round 6 consecutive times and living in the shadow of Brett Favre's packers is not contending. The most damning statistic, winning only one playoff game in 50 years is not contending. No matter how much you polish a turd, its still a turd.</div> All this I agree with but I don't see how that relates to Matt Millen's Lions. Only common denominator is the city and the nickname. Heck the stadium is new. Point being Matt Millen built the current Lions and has been their for a long time. To say it's not his fault because the Lions are doomed to be a below average football team is a bit of a stretch. That's like saying the 49ers would never win a Super Bowl ever back in the 70?s One decade later and their a dynasty. Get the right guy and right system in the right place and any NFL team can be turned around. Even the Lions. Matt Millen is obviously not the guy. He's been their since 2001 and his teams have the worse record in all of the NFL during that period. He's gone through 2 coaches and on his 3rd. Just about every player on that team has been brought in by Millen. So it all starts with the front office and Millen is calling the shots in that department. If I'm a Lion fan I blame Millen for the current state of the team. Not the past and not the future. The present Detroit Lions. I also feel very relieved if this rumor is true. Personally I hope Millen signs with the Bears as a consultant.
Maybe above average or better than most would have been a better discription than contender. The point was Galvy was wrong about the state of the Lions for the 8 years or 10 years before Matt Millen arrived. That fact is they were better than most NFL teams before Millan. That was my only point. Nothing more nothing less.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe above average or better than most would have been a better discription than contender. The point was Galvy was wrong about the state of the Lions for the 8 years or 10 years before Matt Millen arrived. That fact is they were better than most NFL teams before Millan. That was my only point. Nothing more nothing less.</div> I will agree that Matt Millen took a team that seemed to be just on the brink of being a really good team and made them awful. However, Galvatron's point that the Lions have a history of not being very good is one that needs to be addressed as well because while they were on the brink, they never made the leap to be a legit contender. I think Millen needs to be fired, but that alone won't change the Lions' fortunes. This time, the Fords might want to pick up a GM with a longer and better established resume. Of course, nothing is for certain in the NFL except that nothing is for certain.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe above average or better than most would have been a better discription than contender. The point was Galvy was wrong about the state of the Lions for the 8 years or 10 years before Matt Millen arrived. That fact is they were better than most NFL teams before Millan. That was my only point. Nothing more nothing less.</div> I will agree that Matt Millen took a team that seemed to be just on the brink of being a really good team and made them awful. However, Galvatron's point that the Lions have a history of not being very good is one that needs to be addressed as well because while they were on the brink, they never made the leap to be a legit contender. I think Millen needs to be fired, but that alone won't change the Lions' fortunes. This time, the Fords might want to pick up a GM with a longer and better established resume. Of course, nothing is for certain in the NFL except that nothing is for certain.</div> Now I do understand yours and Galvy's teams didn't enter the NFL until 1970, so sometimes you fail to remember the NFL existed for <u>45 YEARS</u> before that. So when you say the Lions "have never made the leap to be a legit contender", you're wrong. Not only have they been World Champions 4 times, they're also one of very few NFL teams to be a Team of a Decade. Just the facts.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DolfanDale)</div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe above average or better than most would have been a better discription than contender. The point was Galvy was wrong about the state of the Lions for the 8 years or 10 years before Matt Millen arrived. That fact is they were better than most NFL teams before Millan. That was my only point. Nothing more nothing less.</div> I will agree that Matt Millen took a team that seemed to be just on the brink of being a really good team and made them awful. However, Galvatron's point that the Lions have a history of not being very good is one that needs to be addressed as well because while they were on the brink, they never made the leap to be a legit contender. I think Millen needs to be fired, but that alone won't change the Lions' fortunes. This time, the Fords might want to pick up a GM with a longer and better established resume. Of course, nothing is for certain in the NFL except that nothing is for certain.</div> Now I do understand yours and Galvy's teams didn't enter the NFL until 1970, so sometimes you fail to remember the NFL existed for <u>45 YEARS</u> before that. So when you say the Lions "have never made the leap to be a legit contender", you're wrong. Not only have they been World Champions 4 times, they're also one of very few NFL teams to be a Team of a Decade. Just the facts.</div> Yeah, but the pre-modern NFL is to the modern NFL as Wicked Lester is to KISS. It's nice to go back and see where the NFL came from, but we all know when the game really started to matter. Regarding my post, it's really obvious that I was refering to the Lions, in the 90's, as being a club that couldn't make the leap to being a contender. I did refer to Galvatron's point that the Lions have only won one playoff game in 50 years. I was really talking about recent history and didn't see the point in refering to wins over 50 years ago. I'm not sure how those old Lions teams are relevant to a discussion about where the Lions are under Millen and where they were where right before Millen took over.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zackman)</div><div class='quotemain'>Now I do understand yours and Galvy's teams didn't enter the NFL until 1970, so sometimes you fail to remember the NFL existed for <u>45 YEARS</u> before that. So when you say the Lions "have never made the leap to be a legit contender", you're wrong. Not only have they been World Champions 4 times, they're also one of very few NFL teams to be a Team of a Decade. Just the facts.</div> You should really stop thumping what happened before the league became fully integrated. You could compare apples to oranges, but you would be a fool to do so. Yes, there was an NFL back then, yes they had been playing in championship games every year. I thank those people 100 years ago who were putting together a professional football league that eventually evolved into what we have today. For Example: 1899 Chris O'Brien formed a neighborhood team, which played under the name the Morgan Athletic Club, on the south side of Chicago. The team later became known as the Normals, then the Racine (for a street in Chicago) Cardinals, the Chicago Cardinals, the St. Louis Cardinals, the Phoenix Cardinals, and, in 1994, the Arizona Cardinals. The team remains the oldest continuing operation in pro football. Teams in the early days did not have integration (meaning, they were all white). Today NFL is ~70% African American. Today's NFL now gathers the best players from *all over the world*, not just guys in Rust Belt states who did this as their second job while not working at the factory. The universities that produce the best collegiate football players recruit from everywhere, leaving few stones unturned. Kids get started on optimized weight training and conditioning from as early as high school nowadays. They eventually become the huge, muscular monstrosities with great speed, and the NFL combines will only look at the very best in the country. All of this was not going on back when your Lions were winning championships in an AFC-less NFL. Your league then was considerabley weaker on all counts. Putting the Lions championships in this conversation is rediculous and lacks a bit of legitimacy when put into context, even though it is technically correct. It wasn't until 1962 when the NFL became fully integrated, finally, with the Redskins being the last team to sign a black player to their roster. Apples and Oranges. There is no comparison between modern era football and what preceded it.
Great post . Only defence I'd have against the Packer great teams of the 60's not having to play AFL is it wouldn't of made a difference to how many titles they won. They proved in SB I and II that the AFL's best couldn't compete with them and those were probably their worst championship teams of the 60's GB had. Anyway this is off topic so back to the Millen rant, do proceed.
