<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Lou Al Sindor:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm not sure about this one yet, either. My first reaction was "NO!" After reading all of the Toronto posts I feel a little better about it. Charlie was certainly liked by his hometown fans and that says something. But I also know that we were a better team when TJ was in there.</div> Not all Raptor views on CV are entirely objective; keep that in mind as you read this thread To those of you who disagree with my stance, I see where you're coming from. Villanueva is a good young player, and he's going to get better. I'm not saying that he is not a talented player; I fully expect him to grow into a very solid scoring forward who can cause headaches with his outside shot-I think he will become what Juwan Howard was at his very best, and that's a versatile 4 who can step out and hurt teams with his jumper and provide a variety of offensive skills to an offense. The reason I'm down on Villanueva's acquisition is that he is not the type of player we need. We needed a guy who has been around the league for a few years, a guy who is tough in the post, a rugged glass cleaner and defender (kinda like what we had in Brian Skinner...hmm..see Larry, I still haven't forgot about that little mistake ). Unfortunately, despite Villanueva's skills and potential, he is not the kind of guy we need. To those of you who said that my evaluation of Villanueva is not accurate because I did not watch him a lot last year, you're partly right and partly wrong. It's true that I only saw him play for extended periods of time last year about 10-12 times. In that time, I noticed a developing scorer with a good outside touch and the potential to score in the high teens or even 20s later in his career. He had some useful passing skills, and he was an ok rebounder who had some work to do on the defensive end. However, I also talked to people who watched him more regularly than I, and keep in mind that I'm much more a fan of college hoops than pro, and I saw Charlie play a lot while he was at UConn, where he was an absolute train wreck on defense, so in that regard he has improved a bit. Also, I am frustrated to lose TJ. Is he a finished product as an NBA 1? Hell no. CV is probably farther along in his development than TJ is. However, a young point guard is a very valuable commodity. We are now left with Mo Williams and Charlie Bell, which is not a bad combo, but it is also a duo that has plenty of question marks. Mo is more of a scoring combo guard, a rich man's Eddie House. Can he be counted on for 30+ minutes of turnover free, smart play night in night out as a starting 1? We'll see-right now, I don't trust him all that much as the primary ballhandler for our team. He has hiccups where he'll turn it over 5 times a game, and he likes to shoot, which could take away from Redd's effectiveness and hurt Bogut's development. As for Bell, as most of you guys know, I really like the guy. A lot. He's the best defender we've got, he hits clutch baskets, and he brings a ton of energy to the floor. He's one of my favorite Bucks. However, we need to keep in mind that last year was his first full NBA season and he is not a true point guard, same as Mo. Both players have plenty of work to do between now and the start of the season in terms of getting themselves ready to run an NBA offense consistently, and to prove to their teammates that they can run the team at a high level-enough to take another step in the postseason. The reasons I'm upset about this trade are not that I think Villanueva is a bad player, nor that I think TJ is an indispensable part of our team. I am upset because we didn't need the type of player that Villanueva is, and it's tough to give up a talented young 1 like TJ. Remember that old adage about the recipe for a winning team starting with a great big man and a great lead guard? Well, we might have the makings of a good young frontcourt, and we've got a helluva 2 guard, but now there is a big question mark in our backcourt and we logjammed the frontcourt to the point that we likely won't get a big name rough and tumble big man, and that's all the Bucks really needed this off season. I am not happy with this trade, and I certainly hope for Villanueva's sake that he improves his rebounding and defense in a hurry or it's going to be another extremely frustrating season for the Bucks.
The only thing that i don't like about this trade is that TJ Ford being not 100% healthy. His spine injury really scares me, i hope it won't act up during the season...
I would personally love this trade if I were a Bucks fan. Charlie V is going to give you a big guy that can run, space the floor, score in the paint, shoot the ball, pass the ball, he's going to get better at rebounding, and the same can be said with his shot blocking. With TJ, you lose a PG that turns it over a lot, can't shoot, and isn't the greatest defender in the world. Beyond that, you have Mo Williams and Charlie Bell that can each adequately play point guard for you. Also, fromt the way it sounds, it seems like Magloir might be on his way out as well. So, by getting Villanueva, you solidify you're front court for the next decade or so (assuming he and Bogut stick around) and you part ways with an inconsistent, turnover prone PG.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Schaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">To those of you who said that my evaluation of Villanueva is not accurate because I did not watch him a lot last year, you're partly right and partly wrong. It's true that I only saw him play for extended periods of time last year about 10-12 times. In that time, I noticed a developing scorer with a good outside touch and the potential to score in the high teens or even 20s later in his career. He had some useful passing skills, and he was an ok rebounder who had some work to do on the defensive end. However, I also talked to people who watched him more regularly than I, and keep in mind that I'm much more a fan of college hoops than pro, and I saw Charlie play a lot while he was at UConn, where he was an absolute train wreck on defense, so in that regard he has improved a bit.</div> He's only one year into his career dont forget, you're making it out like he isnt going to get any better than what he is now. Milwaukee fans should be thankful you got such a gift, all you gave up was T.J Ford, who was outplayed by both of his backups last season, which of whom you still have both. Charlie Villanueva will turn out a much better player than T.J Ford will.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">Milwaukee fans should be thankful you got such a gift, all you gave up was T.J Ford, who was outplayed by both of his backups last season, which of whom you still have both. Charlie Villanueva will turn out a much better player than T.J Ford will.</div> All we gave up was, arguably, the second best player on our team.
Yeah and you got a much better player in return. All you had to give up was your starting point guard, who was outplayed by both of your backup point guards, in which you still have both.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NTC187:</div><div class="quote_post">He's only one year into his career dont forget, you're making it out like he isnt going to get any better than what he is now. </div> and to be honest man, its really sounding like you're doing the same thing with TJ. the raptors needed a great point guard who can get people the ball, more then a scoring PF playing out of position. Colangelo sees something in TJ, and so far we have no reason what so ever to question his ability to evaluate point guards. nobody knows for certain what the future holds for both TJ or charlie...for all we know they could both become all-stars.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post"> Colangelo sees something in TJ, and so far we have no reason what so ever to question his ability to evaluate point guards. </div> i'm gunna be blunt...WHY THE HELL NOT! BC drafted Steve Nash..good on him He then traded him away fro Martin Muusepp, Bubba Wells, Pat Garrity and a 1st round pick He traded for Jason Kidd...very good on him He then traded him away for Marbury i mean BC has made his share of mistakes in this league. he's drafted some great players, but he's made stupid trades, he's drafted some horrible players. Also i dont think most of you know/remember that this "genious" wanted to trade Joe Johnson to the Raps in exchange for the pick we used to get Chris Jeffries(they wanted Rush). Raps didnt take it and instead exchanged picks with the Lakers, Lakers took Rush and we got our man in Jeffries and L. Hunter. I am not all doe eyed about BC's presence. I think he's solid, i think he'll be good for the team. But i dont think his moves are flawless, and shouldnt be questioned.
It's understood why the Bucks traded away TJ Ford with a couple other quality point guards waiting behind him but they could have got much more for him. I see CV3 as more as a back-up to Simmons and Redd at this point. Hopefully for Bucks fans this won't be the only move they make in the off-season. If they can deal Maglorie for a center that can get physical in the post then I would start CV3 at the four. The Bucks just need a big banger in the post at this point.
a backup for Simmons and Redd???? gotta say i dont agree with that assessment. He has all the tools to turn into another Chris Bosh IMO
^ No he doesn't. They are completely different players. CV3 is too soft to guard pfs, but hes not quick enough to guard sfs. He'll have to sit behind joe smith and Simmons, he'll be a sixth man. 02Civic you are seriously over-rating Charlie.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">^ No he doesn't. They are completely different players. CV3 is too soft to guard pfs, but hes not quick enough to guard sfs. He'll have to sit behind joe smith and Simmons, he'll be a sixth man. 02Civic you are seriously over-rating Charlie.</div> How are they completely different players? Both have good perimeter games (Charlie having a 3 PT shot), solid rebounders, both good passers (Villanueva has amazing vision for a big, better than Bosh's), and both arn't good defenders. They are similiar IMO.
They will be much different players by the time they're finished developing. Aside from the obvious difference in body type, Bosh is a much better rebounder and, at this point, is more comfortable in the paint. Villanueva has a better shooting touch, passing ability, and dribbling skills, but has yet to show he can be a starting 4. They're both bad defenders, but Villanueva is worse. CV's an obvious upgrade over Joe Smith, but you have to remember that he won the starting spot at small forward last year. He's going to have a much different role this year, that will probably require him to work on some weaker aspects of his game.
