What about SF? Imo, that's the hardest position to decide who's best because it's so versatile and so many good players share that position. However, my vote goes to K.G right now. He's good all around and big for that position too which creates matchup problems.
the game is different now then it was during Jordan's peak... the game was different during Jordan's peak was different from Wilt's peak... and so on and so on... so yes it is futile to sit here and try to claim 'so and so is the greatest basketball player ever hands down'...if you can confidently say 'Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time hands down' and be 100% sure you're right about that...well I my friend will shake your hand because I have never been that sure of anything in my entire life, especially not something that would be so hard to judge... did he alter the game drastically? yup he did... was he an amazing freak of nature that could do things that seemed to defy the physical limits of human beings? yup is he the best shooting guard to ever play the game? at this point yeah...will kobe be better then him? Probably...at least in terms of skill... the game is changing with every season that comes around...style of play changes as the skill level of players increases...i love it when sports analysts claim players of the past were better players because they shot higher percentages...that is laughable...lets see how well bill walton woulda played goin up against shaq and company...the competition is better now...team defenses are better...and one on one defensive coverage has improved significantly...this drops shooting percentage drastically... maybe the closest comparison i can draw would be cars...could you really compare a Porsche of today to a Porsche of say the 70's ?...how would you REALLY judge it...would you compare horsepower / handling / top speeds / acceleration? because the modern day Porsche's would certainly have an advantage there...hell Sj's Supra would prolly have an advantage there over Porsche's from the 70's...would you compare how the car sized up in comparison to the competition of its time? today there are many more cars that are able to keep pace with Porsche in terms of design / power / handling etc...vs the limited number of car companies who were able to produce cars to match in the 70's...does that make these 2003 porsche's somehow inferior or not as good? go drive a 2003 911 twin turbo and get back to me on that one ;p point is...you cant compare things out of their element...it is just too hard...i cant name off who was the greatest player of all time simple because their peaks were at different phases of the game and this would be too hard to judge...at best you would be able to narrow it down to 3 or 4 players...of which i think Wilt / Bill Russell / MJ must be named...and i'll put money on it that by the end of his career...kobe's name will be tossed around with these men as well...just like shaq's name is already being put out there with the rest of the great centers of all time...
haha by the way, the "SJ" guy Brian was referring is me Brian, I knew you would tear up the forums that's why I invited your ass here ^^
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "SCBrian":</div><div class="quote_post"> maybe the closest comparison i can draw would be cars...could you really compare a Porsche of today to a Porsche of say the 70's ?...how would you REALLY judge it...would you compare horsepower / handling / top speeds / acceleration? because the modern day Porsche's would certainly have an advantage there...hell Sj's Supra would prolly have an advantage there over Porsche's from the 70's...would you compare how the car sized up in comparison to the competition of its time? today there are many more cars that are able to keep pace with Porsche in terms of design / power / handling etc...vs the limited number of car companies who were able to produce cars to match in the 70's...does that make these 2003 porsche's somehow inferior or not as good? go drive a 2003 911 twin turbo and get back to me on that one ;p</div> Excellent comparison. That said, I'm still making a list. PG: Stockton (Honorable Mention: Magic) SG: Jordan (HR: Oscar Robertson) SF: Bird (HR: Julius Erving) PF: Malone (HR: Bob Pettit) C: Wilt Chamberlain (HR: Bill Russell)
Jordan was not tha greatest of all time. there is no greatest player of all time. every player has a different game. hell, it could be said that Mateen Cleaves is tha best ever. He's the best ever at what he duz-bench-warming. here's my list. PG: Big O. he was the greatest all-round player in L history. SG: MJ. He was the best shooting guard. no doubts. but not THE greatest. SF: very tough. the SF position has no definate definition. the players are all too different. KG/T-Mac/Bird. 3 best that i can think of. Julius was better as a SG. PF: Bill Russel. Greatest Defensive player ever. by 2day's standards, would be a PF. C: Wilt. DUUUUUUR! 50ppg, 30rpg. Shaq would b 2nd.
"hell, it could be said that Mateen Cleaves is tha best ever. He's the best ever at what he duz-bench-warming" that would be mark madsen
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That said, I'm still making a list. PG: Stockton (Honorable Mention: Magic) SG: Jordan (HR: Oscar Robertson) SF: Bird (HR: Julius Erving) PF: Malone (HR: Bob Pettit) C: Wilt Chamberlain (HR: Bill Russell)</div> <font color="blue">I agree 100%</font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting "SCBrian":</div><div class="quote_post">"hell, it could be said that Mateen Cleaves is tha best ever. He's the best ever at what he duz-bench-warming" that would be mark madsen </div> thanx for tha correction SCBrian
Elgin Baylor Was Fantastic <div class="quote_poster">Quoting BallerAK47:</div><div class="quote_post">So who do you guys think was the greatest of All-Time at each position?</div> <font face="Comic Sans MS"> Fans under 60 didn't have a chance to see Elgin Baylor of the Lakers play in the 1960's so few mention his name as among the greatest. I saw Elgin play and to this day have never seen any player with such graceful and fluid moves. He was the original "hang time" shot maker and he could make reverse English shots from under the basket that no one else has made. Elgin was scoring 73 points and many more in the 60's which is remarkable since they didn't have the 3 point shot back then. Also, he was only 6'5" but led all the much taller forwards in rebounds every year. If he hadn't played in the same era as the Celtics with Russell, Sam Jones, Luscotoff, Havlicek, K.C. Jones, Satch Sanders, the Lakers would have won a lot more championships aand enhanced his career records. I think his career scoring average is right behind Wilt and Jordan. HIs average would have been higher than Jordan's but his last 2 years, was hobbled with arthritic knees and scored much less which brought his career average down. Nevertheless, Elgin's average is about 27 ppg. which was accomplished without the benefit of the 3 point shot that Jordan had. None other than the Big O, Oscar Robertson who played against Elgin said, Elgin was the greatest player I ever saw, he was unstoppable, he could score any time he wanted." If any of you ever have the chance to watch video tapes of Elgin, I guarantee you would agree that he could play today and still be a superstar. Elgin Baylor was one- of- a- kind. p.s. Elgin was named by his dad for the Elgin Watch which was smooth running precision watch. Aptly named, even his name matched his basketball style.</font>
Too bad that West, Baylor, and Chamberlain could not win a ring together by the way. MJ was the best ever, to do what he did in the 80's, 90's, and then into today's era, was just amazing. He dominated in an era that had a MUCH more aggressive style of defense and the players are much more tall and athletic. The man was always in top shape. I say he was more clutch than Magic or Larry, who in my opinion are the 3 top clutch players of all time. MJ was super athletic and graceful. He even could dominate a game at 40 years old. He changed his game from just jumping over everybody to using that post up fade away and showing us great hesitation moves. I agree that we can't compare era's, but to me this is just a no-brainer. If I want any player in his prime to start my team with, it's MJ. You ask me, just about any other non-homer expert, and past/present NBA players, MJ is the man by an overwhelming majority. PS: Have fun digging up this old thread?
Sorry but this is seriously a 'hype thread' <u>do you go by who revolutionalized the game? </u> you have got to be kidding me...<u>MJ was the nba</u> he made the nba what it is today....no player comes close to what he did on the court.Iverson,kobe,Tmac can all score a 40pt game,but Michael did that and won championships.For God sake i know people who dont know anything at all about the nba but they michael jordan...I bet some people wouldnt be here today into basketball if it wasnt for MJ,i know i wouldnt...The nba would still be American sport but bescause of him the game has become international in people following the nba .....AND your asking "do you go by who revolutionalized the game?"...the answer is michael jordan not even the other nine best players ever would be in the running. I could be here all day explaining why MJ is the best player ever but i'd need to write an article....theres no need everyone knows he is the best.
Think about it like this Bird, and MJ did what some players cant do right now. Bring a championship to the East. (No disrespect but its true)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting deestillballin:</div><div class="quote_post">Think about it like this Bird, and MJ did what some players cant do right now. Bring a championship to the East. (No disrespect but its true)</div> That's only because there was a time when the east was more elite than the west. When you think of the greatest teams of all time, most of them came from the east (with the exception of the Lakers, Utah and possibly the Blazers).
The argument that Jordan was neither the greatest scorer, most winningest player, most all-round player, or greatest playmaker is indeed true .... but it does prove a point though. If we were to use all those categories and list the top 10 players in all categories Jordan would probably be in the top 5 in almost every category, of not out-right win a few of them. It wasn't that the man was the greatest of all time at any one thing (scoring, defending, playmaking or otherwise) .. it was the that he was great at all those things. More than any other player before or after him so far. You say Kareem was the greatest scorer ... well who was next? Bill Russell won the most titles ... who was next? Wilt Revolutionized the game ... who revolutionized it as much as he did ... MJ. Then you can go ahead and add the most clutch player and list of other attributes than when factored together will place MJ at the top of the Greatest of all time.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BallerAK47:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think MJ is the greatest</div> But why is the question.
